Mariners Offseason Thread 2014-2015

[m0ng0]

I also like the fact he is a lefty.

 

[jkitsune]

There are a lot of great value arms on the market right now. If getting Happ closes the book on any of them, that is going to be disappointing. Because we traded from a thin position to get Happ. .

I don't have a list, but Brock and Salk were talking about free agent pitchers this morning.

They said that there really isn't a lot of middle market pitchers out there like Happ, mostly high end and low end.

Like I said, I'm going reserve my judgement on this trade until we're done signing players. Because I do think Jack's going to pick up at least one, if not two more veteran outfielders that can platoon in right...........which makes this a good trade for a Chris Young type replacement in the rotation.

I don't agree, there are a lot of mid-level guys out there to slot in as a #4 or 5 starter.

Brandon McCarthy, Francisco Liriano, Jason Hammel, Ervin Santana, Justin Masterson, Jake Peavy, Ryan Vogelsong, Chris Young...I'd even take a look at Brandon Beachy or Kris Medlen (even though they are coming off injury they have high upsides). I think Happ is in the same range as most of those guys, if not below.

But unlike all those guys, we only have to pay Happ for one year. Which means if he doesn't work out, we're not out 2-3 more years at 7-8 million like some of these other guys might demand (and probably get).

Having Happ for only a one year isn't a positive in a trade, when you're trading away a younger, cheaper player with more team control and arguably more upside (though unclear, I grant you).

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Having Happ for only a one year isn't a positive in a trade, when you're trading away a younger, cheaper player with more team control and arguably more upside (though unclear, I grant you).

What about production? Doesn't that come into the equation?

If Saunders hadn't been hurt for half of his pro career I'd agree with your sentiment. Dude can't stay on the field, and when you think you have a team that can content you don't want to risk another year of Saunders not contributing, especially in a position of dire need like outfield for us.

You guys are acting like we traded away Griffey, Saunders is just a guy. Even in his healthy years he only hit .240 with 12-19 HR's.

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

Saunders was not going to get much playing time here because it is obvious that we are looking at other options in RF. We traded for a lefty in Happ for one year which makes me believe that either Elias or Hultzen are on the trade table for another bat. Then Happ is gone next year and whichever pitcher of Hultzen/Elias that is not traded fills that void.

 

[Uncle Si]

Saunders was not going to get much playing time here because it is obvious that we are looking at other options in RF. We traded for a lefty in Happ for one year which makes me believe that either Elias or Hultzen are on the trade table for another bat. Then Happ is gone next year and whichever pitcher of Hultzen/Elias that is not traded fills that void.

fills the "win now" narrative. but that better be a very good RF.

I still have this sinking feeling its Walker for Upton. I'd prefer Elias for one of Colorado's 3 instead.

 

[HawkFan72]

Saunders was not going to get much playing time here because it is obvious that we are looking at other options in RF. We traded for a lefty in Happ for one year which makes me believe that either Elias or Hultzen are on the trade table for another bat. Then Happ is gone next year and whichever pitcher of Hultzen/Elias that is not traded fills that void.

fills the "win now" narrative. but that better be a very good RF.

I still have this sinking feeling its Walker for Upton. I'd prefer Elias for one of Colorado's 3 instead.

Yeah I have that same feeling/fear. While I would love to add Upton to this lineup and fill the RF hole with him, I really don't want to part with Walker to get him. For the right deal I would trade Walker (I was actually okay trading him for Upton back when we did a couple years ago), but not a 1 year rental.

 

[jkitsune]

Having Happ for only a one year isn't a positive in a trade, when you're trading away a younger, cheaper player with more team control and arguably more upside (though unclear, I grant you).

What about production? Doesn't that come into the equation?

If Saunders hadn't been hurt for half of his pro career I'd agree with your sentiment. Dude can't stay on the field, and when you think you have a team that can content you don't want to risk another year of Saunders not contributing, especially in a position of dire need like outfield for us.

You guys are acting like we traded away Griffey, Saunders is just a guy. Even in his healthy years he only hit .240 with 12-19 HR's.

"Especially in a position of dire need" - that dire need got worse by trading away a talented 4th outfielder. I understand what you're saying, and you're right, it's almost certainly not the end of the world, but a position of dire need just got a lot worse. Depth is an enormous problem for this team, and the team needed another outfielder BEFORE they traded Saunders. Now they need two - one to start, and one to avoid Stefan Romero being the primary 4th outfielder. Think about that for a second - right now Stefan Romero is, in all likelihood, an opening day starter. Will they pick up someone else? Yes, of course. But now they HAVE to. They created a sense of urgency for themselves that recent history tells us will be alleviated by forcing a trade. And while there are probably all sorts of reasonable trades they could make, Uncle Si and I are reasonably terrified about the one everyone WANTS them to make - Walker for Upton.

Whereas there were several options available in free agency to reasonably fill the 5th starter pitching void, there's basically only one reasonable free agent signing available for the OF, and that's Melky. If they sign him, I will STILL think that Saunders would've been a great backup OF for Melky/Ackley/Jackson, but even I know that's a small gripe. It's what happens if they DON'T sign him that worries me.

 

[HawkFan72]

Having Happ for only a one year isn't a positive in a trade, when you're trading away a younger, cheaper player with more team control and arguably more upside (though unclear, I grant you).

What about production? Doesn't that come into the equation?

If Saunders hadn't been hurt for half of his pro career I'd agree with your sentiment. Dude can't stay on the field, and when you think you have a team that can content you don't want to risk another year of Saunders not contributing, especially in a position of dire need like outfield for us.

You guys are acting like we traded away Griffey, Saunders is just a guy. Even in his healthy years he only hit .240 with 12-19 HR's.

"Especially in a position of dire need" - that dire need got worse by trading away a talented 4th outfielder. I understand what you're saying, and you're right, it's almost certainly not the end of the world, but a position of dire need just got a lot worse. Depth is an enormous problem for this team, and the team needed another outfielder BEFORE they traded Saunders. Now they need two - one to start, and one to avoid Stefan Romero being the primary 4th outfielder. Think about that for a second - right now Stefan Romero is, in all likelihood, an opening day starter. Will they pick up someone else? Yes, of course. But now they HAVE to. They created a sense of urgency for themselves that recent history tells us will be alleviated by forcing a trade. And while there are probably all sorts of reasonable trades they could make, Uncle Si and I are reasonably terrified about the one everyone WANTS them to make - Walker for Upton.

Whereas there were several options available in free agency to reasonably fill the 5th starter pitching void, there's basically only one reasonable free agent signing available for the OF, and that's Melky. If they sign him, I will STILL think that Saunders would've been a great backup OF for Melky/Ackley/Jackson, but even I know that's a small gripe. It's what happens if they DON'T sign him that worries me.

I feel EXACTLY the same way. Thanks, you said what I was trying to say much better.

 

[dumbrabbit]

I can personally guarantee everyone that Z will NOT trade Walker or Paxton. They're his prized prospects and he knows the team will succeed through pitching and defense.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

"Especially in a position of dire need" - that dire need got worse by trading away a talented 4th outfielder. I understand what you're saying, and you're right, it's almost certainly not the end of the world, but a position of dire need just got a lot worse. Depth is an enormous problem for this team, and the team needed another outfielder BEFORE they traded Saunders. Now they need two - one to start, and one to avoid Stefan Romero being the primary 4th outfielder. Think about that for a second - right now Stefan Romero is, in all likelihood, an opening day starter. Will they pick up someone else? Yes, of course. But now they HAVE to. They created a sense of urgency for themselves that recent history tells us will be alleviated by forcing a trade. And while there are probably all sorts of reasonable trades they could make, Uncle Si and I are reasonably terrified about the one everyone WANTS them to make - Walker for Upton.

Whereas there were several options available in free agency to reasonably fill the 5th starter pitching void, there's basically only one reasonable free agent signing available for the OF, and that's Melky. If they sign him, I will STILL think that Saunders would've been a great backup OF for Melky/Ackley/Jackson, but even I know that's a small gripe. It's what happens if they DON'T sign him that worries me.

Like I said, let's wait a couple more months before crucifying Jack over this trade.

If we go into camp with a gaping hole in RF still? Then yeah, I'm totally with you. But I don't think Jack's done. I totally expect him to sign a couple veteran bats.

 

[HawkFan72]

I can personally guarantee everyone that Z will NOT trade Walker or Paxton. They're his prized prospects and he knows the team will succeed through pitching and defense.

He has told you that personally? Because he tried to trade Walker a couple years ago when he was a prized prospect too.

The only person I have ever heard him say he "will not trade" was Felix.

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

Saunders was not going to get much playing time here because it is obvious that we are looking at other options in RF. We traded for a lefty in Happ for one year which makes me believe that either Elias or Hultzen are on the trade table for another bat. Then Happ is gone next year and whichever pitcher of Hultzen/Elias that is not traded fills that void.

fills the "win now" narrative. but that better be a very good RF.

I still have this sinking feeling its Walker for Upton. I'd prefer Elias for one of Colorado's 3 instead.

They better be adding Gatti as well with that much club control left.

 

[hawkfan68]

The A's are pursuing Justin Upton. Looking at who they may be offering, it may take Walker or Paxton trade to get Upton in Seattle.

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/ar...-brandon-moss-after-josh-donaldson-traded.htm

I'm not sure they need Upton in Seattle. I think he'd cost too much. They have Cano, Cruz, Seager, and Zunino who can provide power. They need an OF not necessarily Upton or even Cabrera. Especially if the cost would be Walker or Paxton. Wonder if they would consider bringing Ichiro back. Even signing Mike Morse or Chris Denorfia at this point doesn't look too bad.

 

[HawkFan72]

The A's are pursuing Justin Upton. Looking at who they may be offering, it may take Walker or Paxton trade to get Upton in Seattle.

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/ar...-brandon-moss-after-josh-donaldson-traded.htm

I'm not sure they need Upton in Seattle. I think he'd cost too much. They have Cano, Cruz, Seager, and Zunino who can provide power. They need an OF not necessarily Upton or even Cabrera. Especially if the cost would be Walker or Paxton. Wonder if they would consider bringing Ichiro back. Even signing Mike Morse or Chris Denorfia at this point doesn't look too bad.

Denorfia wouldn't be a bad idea. I would love him back right now and then he can bump to #4 OF if we acquire someone better.

He's projected to be worth over 1 WAR. If he can bounce back, he would be a great affordable option to plug in as a stopgap.

 

[Uncle Si]

Cant see the A's shipping off their best player then trying to trade for Upton. Really doesnt fit what seems to be a "rebuilding" season for them

 

[HawkFan72]

Cant see the A's shipping off their best player then trying to trade for Upton. Really doesn't fit what seems to be a "rebuilding" season for them

Do you buy the reports that Donaldson and Beane were having personal issues and that is what forced the trade? If it's true, then Beane pulled the power play and that explains why Donaldson is gone. It would have nothing to do with the product on the field.

Because signing Billy Butler doesn't fit with a rebuilding season either.

 

[IndyHawk]

Trading Saunders makes absolute sense if you are signing Cabrera, Rios or Aoki. If the M's trade for outfield depth and use anyone other than Miller i'm going to be very disappointed.

We all liked Saunders, but the Ms did not. He couldnt stay healthy, and after the continual investment in Guti over the years I suppose I can see their willingness to move on. But man, they did so with authority (impunity and a bit of violence.. they really did not like Michael Saunders).

Like the Cruz move, this trade, in a bubble, isnt great. (WAR stat is hard with Saunders as he hasnt scratched 130 games more than 2 times in his career). We have filled a hole in the rotation (but not with Lester, which is truly "win now"), Happ is a very good back end of the rotation player. sucks its only one year though.

This could end up being a nice move IF a free agent comes in (is Rios or Aoki any worse than Saunders? Cabrera may make the team more than just a "contender"). Or will they trade a pitching prospect for Matt Kemp?

and does this mean the Ms arent interested in any free agent pitcher? which would suck.

so many good things and so many bad things can come from this. I know one thing, fans loved Saunders (maybe irrationally so), which is why this move isnt popular. I also imagine that trading him means something else is already near done

Why do we need a FA pitcher?We got plenty of pitching if you consider the fact Hultzen is coming back and Young
likely comes back.That doesn't even account for any guys that are upcoming from the minors..How much pitching do we need?I know we need another OF who can play defense and hit..I don't think it has to be a mega superstar..I'd like to see Rasmus myself..I know another LH but I don't care about that part..

 

[Uncle Si]

Cant see the A's shipping off their best player then trying to trade for Upton. Really doesn't fit what seems to be a "rebuilding" season for them

Do you buy the reports that Donaldson and Beane were having personal issues and that is what forced the trade? If it's true, then Beane pulled the power play and that explains why Donaldson is gone. It would have nothing to do with the product on the field.

Because signing Billy Butler doesn't fit with a rebuilding season either.

i dont know. i guess what I dont buy is the return for Donaldson. If it was a power play, the issues only surfaced after the trade. Feel like Beane could have gotten far more if he was interested.

I forgot about Butler. I didnt rate his free agent value, and maybe thats why. but he certainly was a significant free agent signing (in terms of committment, especially if you're the As) so you're probably right.

 

[Uncle Si]

Trading Saunders makes absolute sense if you are signing Cabrera, Rios or Aoki. If the M's trade for outfield depth and use anyone other than Miller i'm going to be very disappointed.

We all liked Saunders, but the Ms did not. He couldnt stay healthy, and after the continual investment in Guti over the years I suppose I can see their willingness to move on. But man, they did so with authority (impunity and a bit of violence.. they really did not like Michael Saunders).

Like the Cruz move, this trade, in a bubble, isnt great. (WAR stat is hard with Saunders as he hasnt scratched 130 games more than 2 times in his career). We have filled a hole in the rotation (but not with Lester, which is truly "win now"), Happ is a very good back end of the rotation player. sucks its only one year though.

This could end up being a nice move IF a free agent comes in (is Rios or Aoki any worse than Saunders? Cabrera may make the team more than just a "contender"). Or will they trade a pitching prospect for Matt Kemp?

and does this mean the Ms arent interested in any free agent pitcher? which would suck.

so many good things and so many bad things can come from this. I know one thing, fans loved Saunders (maybe irrationally so), which is why this move isnt popular. I also imagine that trading him means something else is already near done

Why do we need a FA pitcher?We got plenty of pitching if you consider the fact Hultzen is coming back and Young
likely comes back.That doesn't even account for any guys that are upcoming from the minors..How much pitching do we need?I know we need another OF who can play defense and hit..I don't think it has to be a mega superstar..I'd like to see Rasmus myself..I know another LH but I don't care about that part..

its a solid lineup. but i think the Ms want more.

if we are challenging for the playoffs I'd say one of (if not both) Elias and Young cannot be relied on as the primary 3-4 guys. really, same as Walker-Paxton-Hultzen. Good pieces all, but that 3rd rotation spot being someone like Lester or Santana (not Ramirez, sorry. that was a mistype. Shields, McCarthy, even Liriano can make a huge difference over being any of the guys we currently have. Happ is more of a 4-5 guy.

the trade now makes it less likely. They need two outfielders, and you have to figure one will be through trade.

 

[Atradees]

Mariners have opened their wallets and people just want more.