Mariners Offseason Thread 2014-2015

[Sgt. Largent]

Star Free Agents, yes. It has been hard. But we're talking about 1 WAR players in this context.

Nick Markakis, Nori Aoki, Colby Rasmus are the type of player we'd be talking about. The M's have shown they can get that quality of player to sign with them.

I'm not saying I want those guys over Cruz, but to justify the Cruz signing of 4 years and $58 million just because he can improve the Mariners by 1.5 WAR this year is pretty ridiculous. There are plenty of cheaper options of that's what you're looking for.

Personally I think that projection for Cruz is low. I think he'll be better than 1.5 WAR. But if I'm just looking for a one game improvement and I'm "doing the math", then Cruz wouldn't be my target.

Well here you go Hawkfan, Markakis just signed with the Braves for 44 million for 4 years, that's only 3 million a year less than we're paying Cruz for 1/3 of the home run and half the RBI production of both players last year.

 

[jkitsune]

Why are people criticizing this move? You have to count on players who can play 162 games a year. The M's can't really afford someone who only plays 80-120 games per season, and The Condor hasn't really played a full season yet. I'm fine with this trade. You can never have too much pitching.

I still think they are getting Melky. Or at least someone without trading their top pitching talent. I don't think Z would trade his prized pitching prospects, Paxton or Walker for a year's worth of control for Kemp or Upton.

I think the issue is that, even just on the service, this isn't a fair trade, and it makes the team worse overall.

J.A. Happ is not better than the other options that could've simply been signed without a trade. He is only a 1-year rental, and not the sort of return that warrants a 1-year rental. He's more expensive. He's not as good. He's older.

It just doesn't honestly seem like a fair swap, particularly for a position player who retains some upside.

 

[m0ng0]

I don't know the insider info here but it "seems" Saunders was not happy and the team was not happy with him, maybe the team did him a solid and sent him to Toronto which I hear is where he wanted to play? Addition by subtraction ala Percy Harvin....just a thought :?

 

[dumbrabbit]

I've looked at Happ's statistics. He's a better all around player than Chris Young. More K's, less BBs, however he has more hits given up than Young, although Happ will benefit playing in Safeco Field. (Source: baseball-reference.com)

I think it's premature to compare Happ to other pitchers on the market. You have no idea how they would play in Safeco field, so I compare FA signings to current M's, and I feel like Happ is a better upgrade than Young. Of course, no one will have the season that Young had, but Happ can get close to the season that Young had.

Now, Happ vs Saunders? It's tough to see yet. We'll have to see how the season plays out. Tough to project players anywhere. You never know who will break out.

 

[Uncle Si]

I've looked at Happ's statistics. He's a better all around player than Chris Young. More K's, less BBs, however he has more hits given up than Young, although Happ will benefit playing in Safeco Field. (Source: baseball-reference.com)

I think it's premature to compare Happ to other pitchers on the market. You have no idea how they would play in Safeco field, so I compare FA signings to current M's, and I feel like Happ is a better upgrade than Young. Of course, no one will have the season that Young had, but Happ can get close to the season that Young had.

Now, Happ vs Saunders? It's tough to see yet. We'll have to see how the season plays out. Tough to project players anywhere. You never know who will break out.

you can compare Happ to any other pitcher in the same way you compared him to Young. But i do agree, Young will be a bit of an upgrade over Young. I think most agree. The issue is he so much more of an upgrade (for one year) than say Erasmus Ramirez while keeping Saunders

 

[m0ng0]

The back end of the rotation just got a lot more interesting when you look at the acquisition of Happ, the development of Elias, Chris Young as an FA and possibly Hultzen coming up at some point.

 

[Uncle Si]

The back end of the rotation just got a lot more interesting when you look at the acquisition of Happ, the development of Elias, Chris Young as an FA and possibly Hultzen coming up at some point.

which means there are lots of young pitchers on the table that could be swapped...

would the Braves take Taylor and Elias for Upton? can i call them and ask?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't know the insider info here but it "seems" Saunders was not happy and the team was not happy with him, maybe the team did him a solid and sent him to Toronto which I hear is where he wanted to play? Addition by subtraction ala Percy Harvin....just a thought :?

Well we absolutely know that the team was not happy with Saunders.

No team is when a player is constantly hurt and not performing to his potential. I like Saunders, but I'm OK with the trade.........as long as we bring in another veteran bat that can play right field, cause right now there's a GAPING hole out there.

 

[HawkFan72]

There are a lot of great value arms on the market right now. If getting Happ closes the book on any of them, that is going to be disappointing. Because we traded from a thin position to get Happ.

If they could have held on to Saunders (even though that sounds like it wasn't going to happen) and signed one of those free agent pitchers (probably for a similar salary to what Happ will be making), we would be in the exact same position and still have our best defensive outfielder. Then if we could acquire the RF we need, Saunders would be a fantastic 4th OF to help save him from injuries. We could have accomplished the same goal without getting rid of Saunders, basically.

As it stands now, we need to acquire TWO outfielders because we traded away from a position we were already needing to add a piece to. I know it sounds like Saunders and the FO were at odds, just wish they could have found a way to work it out or trade him for a position that isn't overflowing on the free agent market.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

When are the owner's meetings?

 

[Uncle Si]

When are the owner's meetings?

next week i believe.


i think it will be there that we either make a significant trade with Atlanta or Colorado

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

When are the owner's meetings?

next week i believe.


i think it will be there that we either make a significant trade with Atlanta or Colorado

I am not enamoured of trading top pitching like Walker or Paxton away though. I assume they are going after Melky hard in either case.

 

[Uncle Si]

When are the owner's meetings?

next week i believe.


i think it will be there that we either make a significant trade with Atlanta or Colorado

I am not enamoured of trading top pitching like Walker or Paxton away though. I assume they are going after Melky hard in either case.

would be my preference as well. Colorado does have an adundance of outfield depth that may not require Walker or Paxton to get. Maybe make that trade plus Cabrera (or Aoki)

 

[SeatownJay]

Why are people criticizing this move? You have to count on players who can play 162 games a year. The M's can't really afford someone who only plays 80-120 games per season, and The Condor hasn't really played a full season yet. I'm fine with this trade. You can never have too much pitching.

I still think they are getting Melky. Or at least someone without trading their top pitching talent. I don't think Z would trade his prized pitching prospects, Paxton or Walker for a year's worth of control for Kemp or Upton.

I think the issue is that, even just on the service, this isn't a fair trade, and it makes the team worse overall.

J.A. Happ is not better than the other options that could've simply been signed without a trade. He is only a 1-year rental, and not the sort of return that warrants a 1-year rental. He's more expensive. He's not as good. He's older.

It just doesn't honestly seem like a fair swap, particularly for a position player who retains some upside.

Trading Saunders for Happ in no way prevents the Mariners from also signing 1 or 2 of the other options available in free agency that you think are better.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

When are the owner's meetings?

next week i believe.


i think it will be there that we either make a significant trade with Atlanta or Colorado

I am not enamoured of trading top pitching like Walker or Paxton away though. I assume they are going after Melky hard in either case.

would be my preference as well. Colorado does have an adundance of outfield depth that may not require Walker or Paxton to get. Maybe make that trade plus Cabrera (or Aoki)

I think that is what their plan is. Melky and another bat in trade for lesser pitching. They really want Kemp but I don't think they will give up what the Dodgers are demanding (Walker or Paxton) for him. And neither would I. It's just better to go for Melky and have more years of control.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There are a lot of great value arms on the market right now. If getting Happ closes the book on any of them, that is going to be disappointing. Because we traded from a thin position to get Happ. .

I don't have a list, but Brock and Salk were talking about free agent pitchers this morning.

They said that there really isn't a lot of middle market pitchers out there like Happ, mostly high end and low end.

Like I said, I'm going reserve my judgement on this trade until we're done signing players. Because I do think Jack's going to pick up at least one, if not two more veteran outfielders that can platoon in right...........which makes this a good trade for a Chris Young type replacement in the rotation.

 

[dumbrabbit]

Legion of boom welcoming Nelson Cruz. So classic!

 

[HawkFan72]

There are a lot of great value arms on the market right now. If getting Happ closes the book on any of them, that is going to be disappointing. Because we traded from a thin position to get Happ. .

I don't have a list, but Brock and Salk were talking about free agent pitchers this morning.

They said that there really isn't a lot of middle market pitchers out there like Happ, mostly high end and low end.

Like I said, I'm going reserve my judgement on this trade until we're done signing players. Because I do think Jack's going to pick up at least one, if not two more veteran outfielders that can platoon in right...........which makes this a good trade for a Chris Young type replacement in the rotation.

I don't agree, there are a lot of mid-level guys out there to slot in as a #4 or 5 starter.

Brandon McCarthy, Francisco Liriano, Jason Hammel, Ervin Santana, Justin Masterson, Jake Peavy, Ryan Vogelsong, Chris Young...I'd even take a look at Brandon Beachy or Kris Medlen (even though they are coming off injury they have high upsides). I think Happ is in the same range as most of those guys, if not below.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There are a lot of great value arms on the market right now. If getting Happ closes the book on any of them, that is going to be disappointing. Because we traded from a thin position to get Happ. .

I don't have a list, but Brock and Salk were talking about free agent pitchers this morning.

They said that there really isn't a lot of middle market pitchers out there like Happ, mostly high end and low end.

Like I said, I'm going reserve my judgement on this trade until we're done signing players. Because I do think Jack's going to pick up at least one, if not two more veteran outfielders that can platoon in right...........which makes this a good trade for a Chris Young type replacement in the rotation.

I don't agree, there are a lot of mid-level guys out there to slot in as a #4 or 5 starter.

Brandon McCarthy, Francisco Liriano, Jason Hammel, Ervin Santana, Justin Masterson, Jake Peavy, Ryan Vogelsong, Chris Young...I'd even take a look at Brandon Beachy or Kris Medlen (even though they are coming off injury they have high upsides). I think Happ is in the same range as most of those guys, if not below.

But unlike all those guys, we only have to pay Happ for one year. Which means if he doesn't work out, we're not out 2-3 more years at 7-8 million like some of these other guys might demand (and probably get).

 

[HawkFan72]

There are a lot of great value arms on the market right now. If getting Happ closes the book on any of them, that is going to be disappointing. Because we traded from a thin position to get Happ. .

I don't have a list, but Brock and Salk were talking about free agent pitchers this morning.

They said that there really isn't a lot of middle market pitchers out there like Happ, mostly high end and low end.

Like I said, I'm going reserve my judgement on this trade until we're done signing players. Because I do think Jack's going to pick up at least one, if not two more veteran outfielders that can platoon in right...........which makes this a good trade for a Chris Young type replacement in the rotation.

I don't agree, there are a lot of mid-level guys out there to slot in as a #4 or 5 starter.

Brandon McCarthy, Francisco Liriano, Jason Hammel, Ervin Santana, Justin Masterson, Jake Peavy, Ryan Vogelsong, Chris Young...I'd even take a look at Brandon Beachy or Kris Medlen (even though they are coming off injury they have high upsides). I think Happ is in the same range as most of those guys, if not below.

But unlike all those guys, we only have to pay Happ for one year. Which means if he doesn't work out, we're not out 2-3 more years at 7-8 million like some of these other guys might demand (and probably get).

True, and that's actually a point that makes me somewhat okay with this trade. I just wish we didn't make a position of need an even greater need in order to get a pitcher from that mid tier when there were so many available. It's more the process of getting Happ I dislike rather than the fact that we got him. As a pitcher, I'm fine with him.