Man… What a Hack Job!!!

James in PA

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
4,845
Reaction score
4,526
Man, I cannot believe the Donks have interviews scheduled with: Jim Harbaugh, Sean Payton, Dan Quinn, and DeMeco Ryans. These are top tier candidates. Why the hell would any of them want to tied down by the anchor known as Mr Im Limited?!
 

Hockey Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
1,677
Reaction score
930
Man, I cannot believe the Donks have interviews scheduled with: Jim Harbaugh, Sean Payton, Dan Quinn, and DeMeco Ryans. These are top tier candidates. Why the hell would any of them want to tied down by the anchor known as Mr Im Limited?!

Yeah, you very rationally don't like RW so naturally everybody in the world feels the same way & should not even want to be interviewed for the opportunity to become 1 of only 32 HC's at the very top level possible in their area of expertise.

Seems reasonable.
 

Hawknballs

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
4,430
Reaction score
837
the russ hate by seattle fans is sort of embarrassing to be honest. Dude played well here for 10 years. By far the best stretch of QB play and team success in history.

Then again people also torched Shaun Alexander for doing what Tyler Lockett is doing in trying to save his body.
 

Threedee

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
5,570
Reaction score
851
Location
Federal Way, WA
Yeah, you very rationally don't like RW so naturally everybody in the world feels the same way & should not even want to be interviewed for the opportunity to become 1 of only 32 HC's at the very top level possible in their area of expertise.

Seems reasonable.
Certainly, Harbaugh and Payton have bad memories coaching against Wilson. I assume that would be motivation for either of them to at least consider the proposition of coaching him.
 

Hollandhawk

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
819
Reaction score
637
the russ hate by seattle fans is sort of embarrassing to be honest. Dude played well here for 10 years. By far the best stretch of QB play and team success in history.

Then again people also torched Shaun Alexander for doing what Tyler Lockett is doing in trying to save his body.
A lot of it is because of the way he forced himself out. Pete knew how to make Russ successful. That’s obvious now. He back stabbed Pete. So eff Russ.

Alexander was a big RB, Lockett a small receiver. There’s a difference.
 

5thgen

Active member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
183
Reaction score
154
Denver will be shit next yr too. At best a .50 team. Wilson plays better when nothing is on the line. Plus, the chargers already secured a playoff spot. They had nothing to play for.
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
29,711
Reaction score
10,132
Location
Sammamish, WA
the russ hate by seattle fans is sort of embarrassing to be honest. Dude played well here for 10 years. By far the best stretch of QB play and team success in history.

Then again people also torched Shaun Alexander for doing what Tyler Lockett is doing in trying to save his body.
Stupid Dave Krieg, he fumbled too much!!!!!
 

Hockey Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
1,677
Reaction score
930
A lot of it is because of the way he forced himself out. Pete knew how to make Russ successful. That’s obvious now. He back stabbed Pete. So eff Russ.

Alexander was a big RB, Lockett a small receiver. There’s a difference.

What's the difference?
Concussions don't affect you the larger you are?
Broken bones don't hurt bigger guys?
The smaller you are the less obligated you are to put you body on the line for my entertainment while I sit in my recliner eating cheetos & chicken wings while I watch football?

None of those? Okay, I give up then.
 

Hawknballs

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
4,430
Reaction score
837
A lot of it is because of the way he forced himself out. Pete knew how to make Russ successful. That’s obvious now. He back stabbed Pete. So eff Russ.

Alexander was a big RB, Lockett a small receiver. There’s a difference.

size difference is more than nullified by the beating that RBs take on every play, not even just the ones where they carry the ball but all the blocking they do when they don't carry it. You're just making excuses for one player over another because you like them more. Alexander was just a preview of things to come. Nowadays if you knew you were going to get his kind of production for 6-7 seasons, that's exactly what you're shooting for. Guys like Henry and Elliot put up nearly as good of numbers as Alexander, as one example. And yet to this day I still have to hear about Shaun being "soft" from fans who cheered for him putting his body on the line for longer than most RBs play nowadays.

Russ and Pete are grown men in the business of football. "Backstabbing" allegations are an emotional fan response. I don't believe Pete ever wanted to have the superstar QB on his roster because that's not the game he plans around, and when the price became too high he moved on. I'm sure since the first contentious contract we gave him the writing was on the wall that there likely wouldn't be another. I'm not saying we wouldn't have signed him even if we had won 4 superbowls on his back but that didn't happen, as well as he did play here . . . but the lack of team success made it easier to move on. Trying to put this all on Russ is just weird when we know the stye of football Pete has always strived to play since day 1 getting here.
 
Last edited:

DarkVictory23

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
1,168
Reaction score
1,784
size difference is more than nullified by the beating that RBs take on every play, not even just the ones where they carry the ball but all the blocking they do when they don't carry it. You're just making excuses for one player over another because you like them more. Alexander was just a preview of things to come. Nowadays if you knew you were going to get his kind of production for 6-7 seasons, that's exactly what you're shooting for. Guys like Henry and Elliot put up nearly as good of numbers as Alexander, as one example. And yet to this day I still have to hear about Shaun being "soft" from fans who cheered for him putting his body on the line for longer than most RBs play nowadays.

Russ and Pete are grown men in the business of football. "Backstabbing" allegations are an emotional fan response. I don't believe Pete ever wanted to have the superstar QB on his roster because that's not the game he plans around, and when the price became too high he moved on. I'm sure since the first contentious contract we gave him the writing was on the wall that there likely wouldn't be another. I'm not saying we wouldn't have signed him even if we had won 4 superbowls on his back but that didn't happen, as well as he did play here . . . but the lack of team success made it easier to move on. Trying to put this all on Russ is just weird when we know the stye of football Pete has always strived to play since day 1 getting here.
Big Shaun Alexander fan here, so I agree on that, but no idea how you could ever think Pete didn't want the superstar QB on his roster because he absolutely acted like it.

He alienated a defense that is very much in contention for one of the best in NFL history for a QB who, while showing flashes of brilliance, very much relied on his superstar RB to a greater degree than any top QB in the league. When Russ's price got too high, we responded by making him the highest paid QB in the league. There are credible reports that everyone (including Russ) signed off on a trade the year before he left and Pete is the one who wouldn't sign off and wanted to try one more time to recapture the magic. And while Pete protected Russ regularly in his pressers (until last half of his last season here) Russ regularly threw the game plan, the O-line, or whatever else under the bus when it was becoming clearer that our biggest issue was Russ no longer playing on the same page as the rest of the offense.

As for the 'backstabbing', Russ and his agent launched a PR campaign to make it look like the Seahawks were taking him for granted and he really wanted to be here while he was actually trying to engineer his departure. It was a jerk move to the fan base for obvious reasons. Did it probably help him get that ridiculous contract from Denver? Yes, but it poisoned the fan base and the media against Pete, and I don't think Pete has hidden that he wasn't happy with how the split went.

Russ's exit from here was not graceful and he put his 'brand' above anything else. The results aren't that surprising.
 
Last edited:

Hawkpower

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
3,525
Reaction score
852
Location
Phoenix az
the russ hate by seattle fans is sort of embarrassing to be honest. Dude played well here for 10 years. By far the best stretch of QB play and team success in history.

Then again people also torched Shaun Alexander for doing what Tyler Lockett is doing in trying to save his body.

How you leave matters

Guy was a douchebag in his last year and then on his way out

Seeing his huge ego take a hit was satisfying
 

keasley45

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
3,865
Reaction score
6,776
Location
Cockeysville, Md
8tds 6 picks over the last 4 games…5tds 5picks over the last 3… what are you talking about?
This. His big highlights, per usual, came on busted plays yesterday.

I actually enjoy the fact that the Broncos fans (and Russ fans) genuinely believe the issue was Hackett's and that next year, they'll see the old #3 again.

Russ in 2022 and 23 is like Elvis in 75 and 76. His act is old, he's not the same performer he once was, and his career is over for all but the most diehard of devotees who long for good old days. He never evolved.

Will he be better in an offense where everything is simplified? Sure. But the best he will be is a shadow of who he was.
 

HawkRiderFan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
1,918
Reaction score
770
Wait a minute. All we heard ad nauseam since the trade was how the Broncos were going to install an offense designed for Wilson's strengths and how his numbers were going to be great etc. We heard that so much I think some of the negative blow-back from Hawk fans on Russ that some people find over the top was a reaction to being force-fed that for months.

Even Russ talked about how the offense in Denver was a "collaboration" before the season started.

So now suddenly it's Hackett's fault for not having a system that took advantage of Russ's strengths and he was the problem?

So which is it? Both can't be true.
 
Last edited:

FrodosFinger

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2022
Messages
2,312
Reaction score
2,319
Blaming Hackett when Rodgers won 12 games same system aye? Wilson is washed, crooked finger, fat and slow with bad knees and an age older. Nobody cares anymore we got our draft picks
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,672
Reaction score
1,713
Blaming Hackett when Rodgers won 12 games same system aye? Wilson is washed, crooked finger, fat and slow with bad knees and an age older. Nobody cares anymore we got our draft picks
Russell was incapable of running the Aaron Rodgers real NFL offense last year and probably always will be. The missed read vs the Colts for the winning score to KJ Hamler is the poster child for who Russ really is. That and the pick in SB49 on essentially the same play. Hackett does deserve blame for being too slow to adjust.

I suppose there's always the chance that Russ could grow and evolve to successfully run an on-schedule, timing-based NFL-level offense, rather than, as Greg Olsen called it, a "JV Offense". I just wouldn't place any bets on it. There's an expression in youth coaching, "they learn next year what you teach them this year". So it's possible Hackett did get through to Russell on a few things that will help Russell's game *next year*.

The NFL figured out a lot of Russell Wilson's game during his time in Seattle, especially the Jeff Fisher Rams figured him out first. Russell still beat the Rams a few times, like the game where Golden Tate caught a long TD on a contested ball and taunted the Rams DB with a wave as he was going in. Russell did next to nothing the rest of the game, but with prime LOB, 1 TD on offense was enough to win.

Much of the "polite" media generally doesn't talk openly about players shortcomings in a brutally honest way. Even on this board there was heated debate, some advocating for how "elite" Russell is, and how he should be a first ballot HOFer, etc. while others pointed out his flaws and failures. The truth is that Russell does have some elite QB superpowers, like his deep ball, his mind-meld rapport with certain receivers (Tyler Lockett, Doug Baldwin) and in the past, his elite escapability. The other truth is that there are many areas where Russell does not perform at an NFL level, such as reading defenses and going through progressions. He does it "Myyyyy wayyyyyy...", pre-deciding who he's going to throw to, see KJ Hamler helmet-throw play for an example. It took the ongoing series of posts by Keasley45 and others openly discussing Russell's shortcomings, and making points with logic and examples, for me to start seeing past the RW hero-worship indoctrination. The next logical step was realizing that Pete had always *protected* Russell in a special way, to maximize his strengths, and avoid damaging Russell's ego and confidence. THEN the next step was being able to put into context the things that Richard Sherman had said about Russell, and realizing Sherman was telling the absolute truth, from his point of view, and there was a lot of validity to Sherman's take.

The other key data point is that once Russell got paid, no longer on his rookie contract, the Hawks never won another divisional round playoff game, and often lost out in the opening wildcard game. If Russell was so "elite", why wasn't he "carrying the team" to victory in playoff games? Well, Russell couldn't carry Hackett's team to victories either. Hackett's team DID beat the 49ers, but it was the DEFENSE who won that game, granted, with one timely drive from Russell.

It will be interesting to watch next year, though obviously with no draft picks to care about. My guess is that the Donks bring in Dan Quinn, with either Bevell or Schotty as his OC. We know Quinn will keep the D playing at a high level. I felt that Schotty was a little better with Russell than Bevell, but maybe Schotty was just building on the foundation Bevell put in place.
 

keasley45

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
3,865
Reaction score
6,776
Location
Cockeysville, Md
Russell was incapable of running the Aaron Rodgers real NFL offense last year and probably always will be. The missed read vs the Colts for the winning score to KJ Hamler is the poster child for who Russ really is. That and the pick in SB49 on essentially the same play. Hackett does deserve blame for being too slow to adjust.

I suppose there's always the chance that Russ could grow and evolve to successfully run an on-schedule, timing-based NFL-level offense, rather than, as Greg Olsen called it, a "JV Offense". I just wouldn't place any bets on it. There's an expression in youth coaching, "they learn next year what you teach them this year". So it's possible Hackett did get through to Russell on a few things that will help Russell's game *next year*.

The NFL figured out a lot of Russell Wilson's game during his time in Seattle, especially the Jeff Fisher Rams figured him out first. Russell still beat the Rams a few times, like the game where Golden Tate caught a long TD on a contested ball and taunted the Rams DB with a wave as he was going in. Russell did next to nothing the rest of the game, but with prime LOB, 1 TD on offense was enough to win.

Much of the "polite" media generally doesn't talk openly about players shortcomings in a brutally honest way. Even on this board there was heated debate, some advocating for how "elite" Russell is, and how he should be a first ballot HOFer, etc. while others pointed out his flaws and failures. The truth is that Russell does have some elite QB superpowers, like his deep ball, his mind-meld rapport with certain receivers (Tyler Lockett, Doug Baldwin) and in the past, his elite escapability. The other truth is that there are many areas where Russell does not perform at an NFL level, such as reading defenses and going through progressions. He does it "Myyyyy wayyyyyy...", pre-deciding who he's going to throw to, see KJ Hamler helmet-throw play for an example. It took the ongoing series of posts by Keasley45 and others openly discussing Russell's shortcomings, and making points with logic and examples, for me to start seeing past the RW hero-worship indoctrination. The next logical step was realizing that Pete had always *protected* Russell in a special way, to maximize his strengths, and avoid damaging Russell's ego and confidence. THEN the next step was being able to put into context the things that Richard Sherman had said about Russell, and realizing Sherman was telling the absolute truth, from his point of view, and there was a lot of validity to Sherman's take.

The other key data point is that once Russell got paid, no longer on his rookie contract, the Hawks never won another divisional round playoff game, and often lost out in the opening wildcard game. If Russell was so "elite", why wasn't he "carrying the team" to victory in playoff games? Well, Russell couldn't carry Hackett's team to victories either. Hackett's team DID beat the 49ers, but it was the DEFENSE who won that game, granted, with one timely drive from Russell.

It will be interesting to watch next year, though obviously with no draft picks to care about. My guess is that the Donks bring in Dan Quinn, with either Bevell or Schotty as his OC. We know Quinn will keep the D playing at a high level. I felt that Schotty was a little better with Russell than Bevell, but maybe Schotty was just building on the foundation Bevell put in place.

If i was Schotty, I'd tell Russ and the Donks to go F themselves. He was Russ's fall guy as much as Hackett ( as a playcaller) was this year.

He actually git the best out of Russ and schemed plays that worked. Only for Russ to claim the offense wasn't explosive enough.

Then, he gets a coordinator in Shane to run the stuff we've seen Geno do and resorts to the handful of plays HE was capable of executing - never runs Shane's plays.

Yeah. If I was Schotty, I'd stay far away. Same with Bev. Unless I negotiated some serious protections into the contract that insulated my performance from that of the QBs - but that can be far too subjective. As they say, a great qb can make a good OC look like a genius. A poor QB ( or one who can't run an offense) can make a good OC look like a heap of crap... or something like that.
 

scutterhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
9,823
Reaction score
1,791
Season is over. Draft pick is secured, don't give a rats ass about discussing ME3 any more.
Hear Here!!
I don't wish Wilson any ill will, he's mishandled matters, overestimated his ability to establish himself as another Tom Brady type team builder.
He obviously fancied himself to be able to do a better job at running an Offense than Pete Carroll, Pete is taking HIS team to the playoffs, while Russ has put it in park, and pocketed the keys.
Kudos to Wilson for the landing us the 5th pick in the '23' Draft though.
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,672
Reaction score
1,713
If i was Schotty, I'd tell Russ and the Donks to go F themselves. He was Russ's fall guy as much as Hackett ( as a playcaller) was this year.

He actually git the best out of Russ and schemed plays that worked. Only for Russ to claim the offense wasn't explosive enough.

Then, he gets a coordinator in Shane to run the stuff we've seen Geno do and resorts to the handful of plays HE was capable of executing - never runs Shane's plays.

Yeah. If I was Schotty, I'd stay far away. Same with Bev. Unless I negotiated some serious protections into the contract that insulated my performance from that of the QBs - but that can be far too subjective. As they say, a great qb can make a good OC look like a genius. A poor QB ( or one who can't run an offense) can make a good OC look like a heap of crap... or something like that.
Great points! There goes my Dan Quinn theory... I was not considering the way Russell made Schotty into a fall guy, because, IIRC, Pete had described it as philosophical differences involving the run game. I do recall Russell griping about the offense not being explosive enough.

I was merely thinking of it from the viewpoint of "Under which OCs did Russell have his biggest successes", and that would indeed be Bevell and Schotty. I confess I've had to go back and reconsider that Bevell's tenure may have been better than the credit I gave him, given the constraints and "limitations" he had to work under.
 
Last edited:
Top