MacDonald riding with Geno

[SeaWolv]

Word about what, his pedestrian 51 receptions season?

You're aware he was injured right? 51 receptions for 667 yds in 14 games. Stroud didn't even really start targeting him until after both Collins and Diggs went down. He had more yards than Lockett and had he played a full 17 games might have even approached Metcalf's numbers. Point being, he is a weapon regardless of whether you want to be honest about it or not.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And Stroud is going to have a hell of a lot better career than geMEH ever does.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You're aware he was injured right? 51 receptions for 667 yds in 14 games. Stroud didn't even really start targeting him until after both Collins and Diggs went down. He had more yards than Lockett and had he played a full 17 games might have even approached Metcalf's numbers. Point being, he is a weapon regardless of whether you want to be honest about it or not.

Yes of course i'm aware and i'm not dissing on Tank as he's a great player, but he and Diggs factor into my point that Stroud didn't have such a bad year at all when his offensive weapons have all missed time during the season.

 

[Maelstrom787]

And Stroud is going to have a hell of a lot better career than geMEH ever does.

But we are discussing their current caliber...

 

[Ozzy]

Yes of course i'm aware and i'm not dissing on Tank as he's a great player, but he and Diggs factor into my point that Stroud didn't have such a bad year at all when his offensive weapons have all missed time during the season.

It's a valid point for sure. The same people wanting to give Geno every excuse for bad play are the same people who won't entertain the exact same issues that happened to Stroud are outing themselves.

Texans were crushed with injuries and had a bad offensive line as well. Losing Nicco was a huge loss for Stroud too.

 

[Maelstrom787]

It's a valid point for sure. The same people wanting to give Geno every excuse for bad play are the same people who won't entertain the exact same issues that happened to Stroud are outing themselves.

Texans were crushed with injuries and had a bad offensive line as well. Losing Nicco was a huge loss for Stroud too.

The point is that even many of those quarterbacks who are anointed to be the next batch of face-of-the-league franchise QBs falter when faced with difficult situations. The type of situations that Geno has been faced with.

I'll give Stroud the same damn excuses. They aren't excuses. They're the reality of a team sport.

 

[keasley45]

It's a valid point for sure. The same people wanting to give Geno every excuse for bad play are the same people who won't entertain the exact same issues that happened to Stroud are outing themselves.

Texans were crushed with injuries and had a bad offensive line as well. Losing Nicco was a huge loss for Stroud too.

And Stroud was a rookie last year who took a lot of defenses by surprise. He put a whole seasons worth of tendencies on tape and year 2 has been a process of having to reinvent his approach and add new tools / grow in general. Who he is as a pro is somewhere between this year and last year.

He is a great young qb. But the hopping on the bandwagon of a dude who had only played 17 games, as great as they were, was a little over the top. Especially the shouts to ship Geno away in exchange (hypothetical speak) when the conditions in which they play, the systems and teams are wholly different.

Should a qb be forgiven for a down year because kept pieces of his team are missing? Sure. How can you not, especially when those players are on the O line.

It just honestly seems like there is a constant drumbeat to identify every single qb in the league that woukd be better than Geno, disregarding entirely the very circumstances you are now trying to defend for Stroud.

Ok. He missed some pieces. But you still think he's an incredibly gifted qb. Geno has been dealing with worse than what Stroud had this year and their is no quarter given. All there is is talk about how he cant win a big game (he cant do it alone... team sport as was shown in Hou vs LAC ), cant play clutch (he set the league record), cant function in the redzone (prior to this year he had thrown 33Tds and 2 Ints in the redzone), and cant read defenses (he is the most accurate passer in the league).

It smells more like wanting to give Stroud benefits not provided Geno...

And BTW, Stroud should be expected to play worse without key pieces... all QBs should.

 

[JayhawkMike]

I can’t believe someone made this a racial thing. What a piece of trash.

 

[toffee]

With Darnold played himself out of savior status, and Mayfield is not available for trade. For all the GeNOs, any other young QB you want to replace Geno with? Mariota? but he isn't that much younger, a little hard to invest in a 30+yo QB was a team's QBOTF?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'd much rather have Baker.

 

[Titus Pullo]

With Darnold played himself out of savior status, and Mayfield is not available for trade. For all the GeNOs, any other young QB you want to replace Geno with? Mariota? but he isn't that much younger, a little hard to invest in a 30+yo QB was a team's QBOTF?

Zach Wilson

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nah, hard pass on Milf Slayer

 

[JayhawkMike]

I’d actually prefer we grab 2-3 young castoff QBs and let them fight it out in camp. That is unless we use a higher draft choice On one.

some don’t seem to remember when we were going to start a solid Matt Flynn and took a risk and started RW. “Oh NO we might lose more games if start a rookie or developmental QB Let’s stick with mediocre and win enough to almost make the playoffs another year!” Some fans have such fear or change with a QB that can’t win against good teams, can’t win in the playoffs, is a disaster in the red zone and through much of his career has never been good enough to actually start

it’s like the utter stupidity with Rashaad Penny. Yeah he was injured most of the time and yes he got stuffed behind the line almost every time we need 2 yards BUT he would have ONE long run every game that skewed his Yards Per Carry so he was the best and we should always keep him. Same arguments for Geno touting stats that matter little. Dudes just not a winner.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Ok. He missed some pieces. But you still think he's an incredibly gifted qb. Geno has been dealing with worse than what Stroud had this year and their is no quarter given. All there is is talk about how he cant win a big game (he cant do it alone... team sport as was shown in Hou vs LAC ), cant play clutch (he set the league record), cant function in the redzone (prior to this year he had thrown 33Tds and 2 Ints in the redzone), and cant read defenses (he is the most accurate passer in the league).

It smells more like wanting to give Stroud benefits not provided Geno...

And BTW, Stroud should be expected to play worse without key pieces... all QBs should.

Geno dealing with worse is debatable. I'll give Stroud the better defense and OC. Mixon is a beast too, but he slid after mid season and fought injuries too.

The only reason we're even talking about Stroud is because somebody commented that Geno would have done just as good or better than him this year in Houston and I called BS. There's no way of knowing that.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Stroud threw for 282 and a TD. That's below average? Also, what's this about Stroud not performing this season? He ended up with 3700 yrds, 20 TD's and 12 int's while his skill position weapons missed time. Compare that to the almighty Geno's 4100 yrds, 21 TD's and 15 int's and it doesn't seem to bad.

So you don't believe in the "it" factor? Your purely a numbers guy that doesn't trust what your eyes see. Got it.

For this wild card weekend? Yes, it was--well, until Sam Darnold sucked so much he dropped all the numbers down to where Stroud now falls into the 'average' category. All the QB stats from this weekend are public knowledge. (Also, you conveniently missed his INT.)

As for 'not performing this season', CJ Stroud was bottom 10 in basically every single advanced metric this season--success rate, passer rating, QBR, ANY/A. Bottom 10. He didn't fall to 'middling' because he had some injuries to a couple of receivers. He was bottom 10.

Geno wasn't bottom 10 in any, and in Success Rate, Geno was just outside top 10 for the third straight season now.

And 'It Factor' has nothing to do with what your eyes see. 'It Factor' is a term you use when you don't actually know what you are describing or when you are trying to take your vague personal preferences and pretend they are something that actually impacts play on the field. You might as well be telling me how much Stroud looks like a QB or that you've seen Geno's girlfriend and she's a 6 at best.

I've watched Stroud in most of his games this year. Geno has bad moments (sometimes infuriatingly or heartbreakingly bad moments), but Stroud looked like he was on the struggle bus for most of his games.

And... tada! That's what the numbers say. Geno was the most accurate QB in the league and had a high success rate... but his Passer Rating and ANY/A numbers are below average. Geno was a good QB from play-to-play--better than most--but suffered a combination of bad luck, bad schemes, and bad choices at the worst moments.

Stroud, he doesn't even do well in numbers that don't rely on the number of 'weapons' he had. He was below average in both percentage of on-target throws and percentage of bad throws. But you're stepping into my scouting room telling me about 'It' Factor.

To paraphrase Brad Pitt as Billy Beane... "If he's a good passer, why doesn't he pass good*?"


* I think Stroud is going to be a good Quarterback. He didn't really have to deal with NFL pressure last year because his O-Line had a top 10 Time-to-Pressure grade. He had to learn on the fly how to deal with it this year and that's typically one of the hardest hurdles for young QBs transitioning to the NFL. My guess is, he'll be better at it next year. I would trade Geno, his age, and his contract for Stroud, his age, and his contract immediately if that was a thing you could do. It's not.

 

[DarkVictory23]

The only reason we're even talking about Stroud is because somebody commented that Geno would have done just as good or better than him this year in Houston and I called BS. There's no way of knowing that.

Actually, the only reason we're even talking about Stroud is because you brought up how Geno would have done in Houston, and I called BS.

Your post is right here if you'd like to revisit.

 

[pittpnthrs]

For this wild card weekend? Yes, it was--well, until Sam Darnold sucked so much he dropped all the numbers down to where Stroud now falls into the 'average' category. All the QB stats from this weekend are public knowledge. (Also, you conveniently missed his INT.)

As for 'not performing this season', CJ Stroud was bottom 10 in basically every single advanced metric this season--success rate, passer rating, QBR, ANY/A. Bottom 10. He didn't fall to 'middling' because he had some injuries to a couple of receivers. He was bottom 10.

Geno wasn't bottom 10 in any, and in Success Rate, Geno was just outside top 10 for the third straight season now.

And 'It Factor' has nothing to do with what your eyes see. 'It Factor' is a term you use when you don't actually know what you are describing or when you are trying to take your vague personal preferences and pretend they are something that actually impacts play on the field. You might as well be telling me how much Stroud looks like a QB or that you've seen Geno's girlfriend and she's a 6 at best.

I've watched Stroud in most of his games this year. Geno has bad moments (sometimes infuriatingly or heartbreakingly bad moments), but Stroud looked like he was on the struggle bus for most of his games.

And... tada! That's what the numbers say. Geno was the most accurate QB in the league and had a high success rate... but his Passer Rating and ANY/A numbers are below average. Geno was a good QB from play-to-play--better than most--but suffered a combination of bad luck, bad schemes, and bad choices at the worst moments.

Stroud, he doesn't even do well in numbers that don't rely on the number of 'weapons' he had. He was below average in both percentage of on-target throws and percentage of bad throws. But you're stepping into my scouting room telling me about 'It' Factor.

To paraphrase Brad Pitt as Billy Beane... "If he's a good passer, why doesn't he pass good*?"


* I think Stroud is going to be a good Quarterback. He didn't really have to deal with NFL pressure last year because his O-Line had a top 10 Time-to-Pressure grade. He had to learn on the fly how to deal with it this year and that's typically one of the hardest hurdles for young QBs transitioning to the NFL. My guess is, he'll be better at it next year. I would trade Geno, his age, and his contract for Stroud, his age, and his contract immediately if that was a thing you could do. It's not.

This is getting tiring. I don't care about the stats, numbers, metrics, definitions of the "it" factor, or opinions of play. The facts are that Stroud has won 2 playoff games in his two seasons and is still alive in the playoffs and is apparent to continue having future success. Geno has done nothing in his 11 year career and will continue on that path for his remaining days. Let's just call it as it is and save time.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Actually, the only reason we're even talking about Stroud is because you brought up how Geno would have done in Houston, and I called BS.

Your post is right here if you'd like to revisit.

Lol. If that's the way you see it, there's no wonder we never see eye to eye.

 

[DarkVictory23]

This is getting tiring. I don't care about the stats, numbers, metrics, definitions of the "it" factor, or opinions of play. The facts are that Stroud has won 2 playoff games in his two seasons and is still alive in the playoffs and is apparent to continue having future success. Geno has done nothing in his 11 year career and will continue on that path for his remaining days. Let's just call it as it is and save time.

How about you don't try to define your opinion as 'calling it as it is' and say something like 'agree to disagree' instead, rather than being weirdly passive aggressive?

Lol. If that's the way you see it, there's no wonder we never see eye to eye.

How else am I supposed to see it? You are literally the one who brought up how Geno would do in Houston and I replied to you. I gave you the link just in case your memory is really that bad.

Is this some sort of prank?

 

[CallMeADawg]

How about you don't try to define your opinion as 'calling it as it is' and say something like 'agree to disagree' instead, rather than being weirdly passive aggressive?


How else am I supposed to see it? You are literally the one who brought up how Geno would do in Houston and I replied to you. I gave you the link just in case your memory is really that bad.

Is this some sort of prank?

It’s just how that dude is. I quit paying attention to him long ago.