MacDonald riding with Geno

Appyhawk

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So, forget next year with Geno AND the year after with year 1 QBOTF learning the rope (that we can’t draft because we’ll be in the middle of round 1) and tune in In 26/27 season for progress?

when we are sitting here in 12 months after another no playoff season what will your excuse be then?
My excuse will be that you jinxed us! LOL
My QBOTF might be available in middle of the round or maybe even in the second round NEXT year. But I'm hoping he gets his old self back this coming year instead of what he has been for so much of the time since coming back from the back injury. Kid is top shelf as a human being and a great player when he is on his game.
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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I'm not saying he has poor vision. I am saying he does not have great field vision. That is two different things. If you get a chance to watch film of Geno's face during play watch his eyes and head. He locks on (as in premeditated, like you say) to a receiver paying no attention to defenders. He also tends to throw to a receiver is instead of the spot where the receiver will be by the time the ball arrives. That is for red zone plays. He doesn't seems to have such a problem with that between the 20s.

All i will say about the redzone performance is that since 2022, he has thrown 55 Tds and 6 Ints in the redzone (inside 20). 4 came this year.

The td total is low, but he has had Grubb and Waldron calling plays and both have been shown to be poor in compressed field situations. That bears true especially with Grubb as there isnt anither starter in the league who's completion percentage drops like Geno's did under Grubb the closer you get to the goal line.

He went from middle of the pack in completion percentage in the redzone (inside 20) in Waldron's first year with him and then dropped to near last the second year when Waldron was fired (his inside the 20 numbers were bad but he was better inside the 10).

Grubb improved his percentage completion inside the 20 but the lack of deception and creativity on offense bit us in TDs. And worse, the closer we got to the goal line, the worse the offense was. Inside the 10, his completion percentage dropped 25 points.

2022 he was at 52.8% inside the 20 (Allen for example was at 53, Stafford at 48%.) And 50% inside the 10.

He threw 17 Tds and 0 picks that year.

2023 he was at 41.8% imside the 20, but better inside the 10 @ 48%. Stafford and Goff were at ~50 and 51. Waldron was fired.

He threw 16 Tds and 2 picks that year.

2024 with Grubb he rebounded a bit and finished at 53% inside the 20(Josh Allen for context is at 52%) and then plumetted to 27 percent inside the 10 yard line.

He tossed 13Tds and 4 picks.

So to recap, with Waldron, Geno had:

33 Tds vs 2 Ints and was consistent if not better in completion percentage the closer we got to the endzone.

With Grubb, Geno had:

13 TDs and 4 Picks and was worse than with Waldron at his best inside the 20, and was league worst inside the 10, with no QB and no offense falling off so precipitously as Geno and the Hawks.

So are the numbers great? No. But he was averaging 1 Int per year in the redzone (inside 20) with Waldron (0 year one and 2 year 2), and that total increased by 4 with Grubb while simultaneously throwing fewer Tds.

If you look at those numbers objectively and consider the OCs have been fired, you dont see a picture of a scattershot QB who panics in the redzone. He tossed 33 Tds and 2 picks with Waldron even with a predictable offense, no run game, poor line and stagnant offense and / play design. Our performance was consistent regardless of where we were inside the 20.

Contrast that to Grubb where if you extrapolate his 2024 numbers across 2 seasons, Geno goes for 26 Tds and 8 Ints i side the 20 with a middle of the pack completion percentage in total inside the 20, but league worst 27% inside the 10.

Thats the scheme, not the qb as numerous analysts and experts have detailed how Grubb's college styled offense would function in open space, but fail in compressed field situations. Its not JUST Grubb, its the inherent difference in the way college offense attack defenses.

The numbers bear that out in Grubbs only year AND when compared to Waldron.

So what does that say about Geno and his coordinator?

That if he could post 33 and 2 with Waldron (who was fired and is no longer in the league) and be middle of the pack in completion percentage that he can do much better with someone competent. We had little to no running game with Waldron or Grubb. Logic says that with better play calling and a formidable ground game that Geno will play better, not wrose. There is literally ZERO data to say he wont improve.
 
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pittpnthrs

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I'm trying to figure out if you are purposefully ignoring that Geno was better than Stroud this year or just unaware of it. Like, entirely. Success Rate, Passer Rating, QBR, ANY/A... our overall offense was better than Houston's, too.

And this was Geno's second straight year with a bottom of the barrel offensive line, and he was even better last year when he didn't have a college OC who had no idea what he was doing.


There is literally no reason to assume Houston wouldn't be better with Geno than Stroud. The difference, of course, is Stroud is much younger and on a rookie contract. I wouldn't trade Stroud for Geno if I were them, but they'd almost undoubtedly have been better this year and last.

Geno has more weapons at the skill positions. Stroud has Nico Collins at the WR and Mixon at RB and thats it and they both missed time this season due to injuries.

In no possible way would I ever take Geno Smith over Stroud. Neither would anybody else except for a few delusional Seahawk fans for that matter.
 

SoulfishHawk

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I never said that Geno wouldn't be a good mentor. All I said was that we don't know that he would. And I hardly think that jumping up and down on the sidelines makes a person a good mentor. All it means is that he's happy that his team and/or teammate is doing well.
And we don't know that he WON'T. We're on the same page here. Nobody knows until it happens. I'm just not sure where you don't see that Geno is a team guy. He drives me crazy, but I just am of the opinion that he'd be good at mentoring the next guy.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Geno has more weapons at the skill positions. Stroud has Nico Collins at the WR and Mixon at RB and thats it and they both missed time this season due to injuries.

In no possible way would I ever take Geno Smith over Stroud. Neither would anybody else except for a few delusional Seahawk fans for that matter.
Zero chance. Shoot, I'd trade geDIOCRE and a 1st for Stroud. As if they would would trade him :ROFLMAO:
 

SoulfishHawk

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Talking about stats. Geno’s stats mean nothing when we’re watching other teams in the playoffs. I hold Geno accountable for our losses because of the kind of leader he is and we came up inches short. He could have found a way to refuse to lose somewhere in this season that woulda put us in the playoffs but I don’t think he has that kinda will. W’s
this, so much this
 

pittpnthrs

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Anyone flat out saying Geno needs to go isn’t making that claim based on a rational set of information. Just irrational thoughts about how to improve the team based on their perception and not based on reality.

Actually the people calling for him to be gone are being rational. They realize that regardless of any stats for Geno whether good or bad are going to equate to yet another mediocre season. I want him to play for one more season and possibly another to build up other areas of the team, but I do see and understand other peoples point of view. I would be completely content also if they got rid of him. They are going to have to roll with a young guy sooner than later and Geno is just prolonging that day.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Yep. He's not going to magically become some clutch/elite QB this far into his career. Game winning drives against average to crappy teams isn't nearly as impressive as it's made out to be. Winning is all that matters. But.......barely beating bottom of the barrel teams, only to lose to the elite teams isn't really that impressive.
 

pittpnthrs

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So what would you do then if next yearx eith an improved line, improved scheme and a more valanced attack, Geno posts 4500yds, 72% completion, and 35 / 13 Tds, wins 2 playoff games, and is top 7 qbr?

That's a pretty tall order, but the only thing a person can do is admit they were wrong about him. I would.
 

RiverDog

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And we don't know that he WON'T. We're on the same page here. Nobody knows until it happens. I'm just not sure where you don't see that Geno is a team guy. He drives me crazy, but I just am of the opinion that he'd be good at mentoring the next guy.
And again, I am not saying that I don't see that Geno as a team guy. And even if one is a team guy, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are a good mentor. They are two separate things. It's like the difference between a cheerleader and a coach.

There is some evidence that Geno might not be that great mentor and/or team guy that you're assuming he is. Some have speculated that his sideline behavior, where he quite often will retreat to the bench and his tablet (the first SF game where Metcalf ran a sloppy route resulting in an interception comes to mind) rather than discussing the outcome of a play with his teammates, is an indication that he's more about himself than he is his teammates. Personally, I don't think that's a big deal, that it might just be a moment of frustration that comes out in the wash, but nevertheless, it is evidence.
 
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SoulfishHawk

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Fair enough. Not really that important. My point is that a young guy could do a hell of a lot worse than Geno to learn from.
 

SeaWolv

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Perhaps an anomaly? I’d argue that Stroud is going to have a much better career than Geno. No doubt he’s a generational talent.

Having a poor O-line is not an excuse. It’s the single most important element to any QBs performance. But, how many different variables can one throw out here? If he’s the most efficient passer, the INTs get brought up. If his 4th quarter comebacks get brought up, he can’t run like Lamar Jackson.

Do I think Geno can take us to the promise land? No. I truly don’t. Can anyone say that for fact? No.
Houston made the playoffs because they're in the weaka$$ AFC South and they have a beastly Defense (#3 DVOA). They won a playoff game because they dialed up the D and smothered the Chargers offense with 4 picks on Herbert and held their rush attack in check with only 50 total yards allowed.

Stroud is a very good QB but he can put up stinkers from time to time (Titans, Jets, Vikings). I would not say he's better than Geno right now except he's doing it at a much younger age and will likely get even better. if I had the choice I would take him over Geno for sure. The Texans OLine is about the same level of quality as Seattle's. Had Seattle been in the AFC South they would have made the playoffs with the same 10-7 record.
 

hawkfan68

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And again, I am not saying that I don't see that Geno as a team guy. And even if one is a team guy, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are a good mentor. They are two separate things. It's like the difference between a cheerleader and a coach.

There is some evidence that Geno might not be that great mentor and/or team guy that you're assuming he is. Some have speculated that his sideline behavior, where he quite often will retreat to the bench and his tablet (the first SF game where Metcalf ran a sloppy route resulting in an interception comes to mind) rather than discussing the outcome of a play with his teammates, is an indication that he's more about himself than he is his teammates. Personally, I don't think that's a big deal, that it might just be a moment of frustration that comes out in the wash, but nevertheless, it is evidence.
Geno is more like one of the guys. Gets along with other players, etc. But when it comes to leadership he just doesn't have it. As a QB, you have to be the leader on offense. Not sit on a bench all alone when things aren't going your way. He's not the type who can rally the troops when things are down. Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Peyton Manning, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Brock Purdy, Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott, Baker Mayfield, Joe Burrow, and Matt Stafford all are good leaders. Heck, you could even put Andy Dalton and Sam Darnold in that crowd too. Geno you can't. He talks a good game in his press conferences but doesn't exhibit any leadership on the field.
 
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