Luke Joeckel

[seabowl]

I'm probably wrong on this but wasn't Joeckel brought in here especially based on what the team is paying him to be a tackle? From what I've read so fat he has been playing guard next to Fant. I think he is earning 7-8 mil and for an unproven player, coming off of injury, playing guard not tackle, that is a lot of $. If this is the case I would think there probably were better options.

Again this all assumes that he was brought in to play tackle and that the plans are now to move him to guard.

 

[Siouxhawk]

That's a good point, but if he's working well with Fant on that left side, objective solved.

 

[SNDavidson]

It speaks to the O-line market this past off season, supply/demand etc., relatively speaking it is not THAT high of a number, considering he is not just going to be a starting guard but also our first backup tackle.

 

[Blitzhawk]

I believe he was brought in for Oline competition. You may not know but we just try to put the 5 best scrubs out there at once. We have a right tackle playing center, a center playing right tackle, a basketball player playing left tackle.......hell, some day you might even see a defensive player playing Oline.............ohh, wait.














Ohhh, and just in case. :sarcasm_off:

 

[mikeak]

If Fant improved enough to be a starting NFL player then it is a win. I get that it means you may be overpaying for Joeckel but the remaining years on Fant's contract is a huge saving for the team.

On the flip-side - there was no way you could come into the season and gamble that Fant had improved enough. You just couldn't.

If Joeckel is slightly better than Fant as Tackle but also better than our other options at guard then you still play with him as guard. Two things - 1) overall the o-line is better and 2) you don't have to re-sign him or another expensive tackle next year if Fant works out.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I'm probably wrong on this but wasn't Joeckel brought in here especially based on what the team is paying him to be a tackle? From what I've read so fat he has been playing guard next to Fant. I think he is earning 7-8 mil and for an unproven player, coming off of injury, playing guard not tackle, that is a lot of $. If this is the case I would think there probably were better options.

Again this all assumes that he was brought in to play tackle and that the plans are now to move him to guard.

Think of Joeckel's career thus far the same way you would think of Justin Britt. While Joeckel went higher in the draft than Britt, both were originally drafted to be a tackle but due to struggles were kicked inside.

So I believe their entire intent this whole time was to shore up the interior to enable them to kick Ifedi to RT, while having insurance in case Fant didn't pan out. Joeckel provides both.

 

[StoneCold]

If Fant improved enough to be a starting NFL player then it is a win. I get that it means you may be overpaying for Joeckel but the remaining years on Fant's contract is a huge saving for the team.

On the flip-side - there was no way you could come into the season and gamble that Fant had improved enough. You just couldn't.

If Joeckel is slightly better than Fant as Tackle but also better than our other options at guard then you still play with him as guard. Two things - 1) overall the o-line is better and 2) you don't have to re-sign him or another expensive tackle next year if Fant works out.

The amount they are paying (or rather saving) Fant is a good point. It makes a bit more sense that they were willing to over pay for Joeckel for one year. I'm pretty sure we're only committed to that 7-8 mill number for this year, yes?

 

[jammerhawk]

Yes, that's correct Joeckel is a FA after this season.

 

[mikeak]

If Fant improved enough to be a starting NFL player then it is a win. I get that it means you may be overpaying for Joeckel but the remaining years on Fant's contract is a huge saving for the team.

On the flip-side - there was no way you could come into the season and gamble that Fant had improved enough. You just couldn't.

If Joeckel is slightly better than Fant as Tackle but also better than our other options at guard then you still play with him as guard. Two things - 1) overall the o-line is better and 2) you don't have to re-sign him or another expensive tackle next year if Fant works out.

The amount they are paying (or rather saving) Fant is a good point. It makes a bit more sense that they were willing to over pay for Joeckel for one year. I'm pretty sure we're only committed to that 7-8 mill number for this year, yes?

Correct which is why you make different decisions with that guy. You have to look at the long term future decisions and just go with what creates the best overall setup. If you had a three year contract with Joeckel then you play him where he is the best. Now you play him where you get the best overall result and probably have a two-year outlook on it - as long as it is only marginally "worse" this year

 

[QuahHawk]

With Joeckel and Britt both FA's next year we will likely be able to keep one of these two around on a longer term deal.

 

[Seymour]

If it ends up being the case...does it speak more volumes about Fant or Joeckel that a 2nd year ex basketball player beat out a #2 overall drafted tackle?

 

[Siouxhawk]

Maybe Joeckel is better suited as a guard in the NFL. Either way, we need that spot filled too.

 

[toffee]

That's a good point, but if he's working well with Fant on that left side, objective solved.

any training camp news on these two?

 

[Tusc2000]

Fant has more upside potential at LT. Joeckel can always step in if Fant doesn't step up this year. But yeah, Joeckel's best position is probably LG.

 

[Hasselbeck]

With Joeckel and Britt both FA's next year we will likely be able to keep one of these two around on a longer term deal.

Could honestly see both guys re-signing if they play fairly well. Jimmy Graham is the lone huge FA we have coming up in 2018.

 

[Siouxhawk]

That's a good point, but if he's working well with Fant on that left side, objective solved.

any training camp news on these two?

They've been paired together, taking first-team reps in this early stage of camp. Fant shows big signs of improvement, but still has had some difficulties with the edge rush. Joeckel's been looking good from what I've read.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Pete has said that it was Joeckel's last year of work at LG that sold them.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Many NFL insiders and even former NFL coaches commented at the time the Seahawks signed him that Luke Joeckel in their opinion was NOT a LT -- that he was definitely a LG.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that Joeckel was a wasted signing (assuming he makes the team). If Fant ends up winning the starting LT spot ... and you pair him up with Joeckel there at LG ... Joeckel can potentially become a coach on the field (as it were), helping Fant during games learn and pick up some of the nuances of the LT position that he simply couldn't learn any other way than under live fire.

That's the lens I'd be viewing things through -- assuming Joeckel wins the starting LG position and makes the team, that is.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

To me, I'd see it as a positive.

Short term: Joeckel upgrades us at a OG spot. Glowinski didn't fare too well there. I don't care re: LT or LG.

It's also important to remember, that we signed Joeckel on March 9th. That was also before we tried to sign TJ Lang, who we offered on the 11th, but took Detroit's deal on the 12th. So Seattle was looking to load up at both OG spots in a big way. Seattle was primed to allocate 20M to LG and RG for 2017. Clearly Seattle is changing their roster formula as well as willing to change how we win as our defense ages and no longer plays at their current efficacy.

In the short term, this is encouraging. Seattle understands that our blueprint for winning will be to leverage Wilson's prime years of his career. It wasn't for lack of will, or lack of commitment of cap space that saw us lose out on Lang.

Long term:

It remains to be seen what 2018 may hold. Right now, the fact we were willing to pay Lang at the top end of the OG scale bodes well for the prospects of retaining Britt. Joeckel's contract is such that at worst, Seattle can simply allocate what we were paying Joeckel and Britt in 2017 to just Britt in 2018. Adding a quality OG via the draft is not remotely out of the question. It doesn't even necessarily require a end of R1 selection to do it.

Joeckel (and his contract specifically) could at worst be considered a cap placeholder for keeping Britt. And Seattle can afford to be patient with Britt -- allowing him to really cement in the FO's opinion of him going forward. At best, Joeckel succeeds and becomes worthy of a 9-10M per year contract. Seattle was already willing to pay unknown Joeckel and Lang 20m per year. It would seem logical that in 2018, they would be willing to pay a good Joeckel and a good/great Britt the same.

Right now, I love the fact that Seattle is showing a willingness to spend on the OL. Particularly since Britt, if he plays similarly to last season, is demonstrating a player worth retaining at market value. Something that couldn't be said for the OL we've let depart. Coupled with what appears to be a very marked shift in what we look for from rookie OL talent (Pocic), I think there is ample reason for fans frustrated at Seattle's approach to the OL thus far to be optimistic going forward. More willingness to keep the guys worth keeping. Better ability to identify true quality in draft prospects instead of great athletes with little to no skill.

I like the new approach. And I hope it's successful this year such that Seattle continues to get away from the approach that has resulted in large scale failure.

 

[Seymour]

We offered Lang $8M and are paying Joeckel $7M.
That would be $15M combined, not $20M. :?:

Lang ended up signing for $9.5M and is a top 5 guard. Joeckel should come in under that on next contract (to play guard) IMO.