Let's say the Seahawks are actually really bad in 2018...

[Spin Doctor]

1 Super Bowl Championship, 2 NFC Championships, 4 NFC West Championships, 6 playoff births in 8 seasons when taking over a legit 4-12 team and overseeing a complete rebuild, buys you a little bit of leeway.

The team would have to be historically bad without significant injuries for Carroll to be let go.

I don't think he has as much leeway as you think. After our first Super Bowl win we were poised to become the next dynasty. Rarely do teams have as much young talent as the Seahawks did, and never has there been a defense that was of the 2013 Seahawk's caliber be paired with a franchise Quarterback of Russ's caliber. Despite these facts the Seahawks have been in a slow decline since their 2014 run. Each year since that fateful Super Bowl the Seahawks have been declining. Moreover there have also been some questions over Pete Carroll's management in the locker room. His refusal to waive Bevell, and Cable after repeatedly failing to meet Pete Carroll's goals must also be called into question. As one poster stated, we've spent the last three off-seasons focusing on establishing a running game, yet our running game has only been getting worse. That is never a good sign.

When we look even deeper we have to call into question Pete, and John's talent acquisition. We spent first rounders on Harvin, and Graham, both had a minimal impact on the Seahawks. Graham was okay, but a poor fit. We tried to make him a blocking TE with the ability to receive rather than play to his strengths as a player, and Harvin was the same headcase he was in Minnesota. The drafts since 2013 does not paint a pretty picture either.

From the 2013 draft we have zero starters, zero players.

From the 2014 draft we have 1 starter (Britt), the rest are not on our team.

From the 2015 draft we have 1 starter (Clark), and one good depth player/return man (Lockett), the rest are off our team.

We still have most of our 2016 players, but most of them have a question mark over their futures. Ifedi for example graded out as being on of the worst lineman in the league last season, and led the league in penalties. Reed is now a bonafide starter. CJ Procise is a talented RB that can do everything but stay on the field. Vannett was supposed to be a blocking TE, but he hasn't even been that great at that. Odihambo is still on the team, but has not looked very good. Jefferson has some potential but has some trouble staying healthy, Joey Hunt, very bad, Alex Collins, good but not on our team.

From the 2017 draft our first round pick was one of the bigger bust in recent memory. Our second pick looked very bad so far, we'll see what he'll do this season. Griffin is a starter on most teams barring injury, A plus pick here. Delano Hill, don't know much about him. He didnt exactly play much. Nazir Jones has potential, Darboh, not much playing time. Tyson, practice squad player. David Moore, not much playing time.

So, our haul from the 2013 - 2015 drafts include: Britt, Clark, and Lockett. Those are the only three players from those three drafts that are on our team. One of them is a good special teams ace, but hasn't looked them same at WR since his injury, one is a lineman that is very streaky, and the other is a pretty good defensive lineman with some consistency issues at times. At the very least he is about as good as Avril, so that is a plus.

The jury is still out on the years 2016 - 2017. From here we have these players on the "definitely good" list: Reed, and Griffin. The rest either have potential, or are not doing so hot, I think we all know who these players are.

So, in four years we have produced only five good starters. There are still some guys with potential, we shall see if they turn out. Only one of those players, Clark are at the level where I would label them a corner stone player. We have not even done a good job drafting rotational guys

Pete's fate is ultimately tied to how his players respond methinks. If the players come out apathetic like they did last season, I think he is gone. If some of his young guys regress, and nobody steps up, I think he is gone. If he goes 7-9, but his team looks hungry, and motivated I think he is here to stay. Pete's biggest problem is how he let his players run amok. If he isn't able to get his guys hungry again, he is gone. He bought himself some good will, but he has also has whiffed on quite a few things and shown questionable decision making on personnel and coaches (Bevell, Cable), and what is worse he came out with a team that looked apathetic last season.

I don't think Carroll is untouchable by any means. There are a lot of questions that have popped up over the last few seasons, and he is now the oldest coach in the NFL. Last season he started to look his age as well.

 

[chris98251]

1 Super Bowl Championship, 2 NFC Championships, 4 NFC West Championships, 6 playoff births in 8 seasons when taking over a legit 4-12 team and overseeing a complete rebuild, buys you a little bit of leeway.

The team would have to be historically bad without significant injuries for Carroll to be let go.

I don't think he has as much leeway as you think. After our first Super Bowl win we were poised to become the next dynasty. Rarely do teams have as much young talent as the Seahawks did, and never has there been a defense that was of the 2013 Seahawk's caliber be paired with a franchise Quarterback of Russ's caliber. Despite these facts the Seahawks have been in a slow decline since their 2014 run. Each year since that fateful Super Bowl the Seahawks have been declining. Moreover there have also been some questions over Pete Carroll's management in the locker room. His refusal to waive Bevell, and Cable after repeatedly failing to meet Pete Carroll's goals must also be called into question. As one poster stated, we've spent the last three off-seasons focusing on establishing a running game, yet our running game has only been getting worse. That is never a good sign.

When we look even deeper we have to call into question Pete, and John's talent acquisition. We spent first rounders on Harvin, and Graham, both had a minimal impact on the Seahawks. Graham was okay, but a poor fit. We tried to make him a blocking TE with the ability to receive rather than play to his strengths as a player, and Harvin was the same headcase he was in Minnesota. The drafts since 2013 does not paint a pretty picture either.

From the 2013 draft we have zero starters, zero players.

From the 2014 draft we have 1 starter (Britt), the rest are not on our team.

From the 2015 draft we have 1 starter (Clark), and one good depth player/return man (Lockett), the rest are off our team.

We still have most of our 2016 players, but most of them have a question mark over their futures. Ifedi for example graded out as being on of the worst lineman in the league last season, and led the league in penalties. Reed is now a bonafide starter. CJ Procise is a talented RB that can do everything but stay on the field. Vannett was supposed to be a blocking TE, but he hasn't even been that great at that. Odihambo is still on the team, but has not looked very good. Jefferson has some potential but has some trouble staying healthy, Joey Hunt, very bad, Alex Collins, good but not on our team.

From the 2017 draft our first round pick was one of the bigger bust in recent memory. Our second pick looked very bad so far, we'll see what he'll do this season. Griffin is a starter on most teams barring injury, A plus pick here. Delano Hill, don't know much about him. He didnt exactly play much. Nazir Jones has potential, Darboh, not much playing time. Tyson, practice squad player. David Moore, not much playing time.

So, our haul from the 2013 - 2015 drafts include: Britt, Clark, and Lockett. Those are the only three players from those three drafts that are on our team. One of them is a good special teams ace, but hasn't looked them same at WR since his injury, one is a lineman that is very streaky, and the other is a pretty good defensive lineman with some consistency issues at times. At the very least he is about as good as Avril, so that is a plus.

The jury is still out on the years 2016 - 2017. From here we have these players on the "definitely good" list: Reed, and Griffin. The rest either have potential, or are not doing so hot, I think we all know who these players are.

So, in four years we have produced only five good starters. There are still some guys with potential, we shall see if they turn out. Only one of those players, Clark are at the level where I would label them a corner stone player. We have not even done a good job drafting rotational guys

Pete's fate is ultimately tied to how his players respond methinks. If the players come out apathetic like they did last season, I think he is gone. If some of his young guys regress, and nobody steps up, I think he is gone. If he goes 7-9, but his team looks hungry, and motivated I think he is here to stay. Pete's biggest problem is how he let his players run amok. If he isn't able to get his guys hungry again, he is gone. He bought himself some good will, but he has also has whiffed on quite a few things and shown questionable decision making on personnel and coaches (Bevell, Cable), and what is worse he came out with a team that looked apathetic last season.

I don't think Carroll is untouchable by any means. There are a lot of questions that have popped up over the last few seasons, and he is now the oldest coach in the NFL. Last season he started to look his age as well.

Well Jim Mora is unemployed in Football working for ESPN if we need him.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

One Paul is not a knee jerk owner and has a sound front office that doesn't over react, he understands that a coaching churn over and a player turnover and or rebuild resets the bar and it will take a bit of time before things sync up again. The first time they had I think a 5 year plan and pretty much hit it dead nuts on, I would expect a 3 year plan now.

Exactly where I'm at.

I've said from day one after the roster purge that this is another three year plan, and if Pete and John can't recreate the magic with mining draft and acquisition talent? Then Paul will make the tough decision to start over with a new GM/HC combo.

Or maybe just a new HC, Schneider is young enough to be our GM for much longer than Pete can coach.

 

[Jville]

Couple of thoughts ......

1. They never have been "really bad" during the Pete Carroll era ..... so that isn't going to suddenly happen in 2018.

2. Paul and John and Pete have worked well together and are pretty much set thru the remainder of the current CBA.

3. The end of the world doesn't arrive until 2021. That is when retiring as an NFL fan and moving on to other things becomes an attractive option.

 

[Spin Doctor]

1 Super Bowl Championship, 2 NFC Championships, 4 NFC West Championships, 6 playoff births in 8 seasons when taking over a legit 4-12 team and overseeing a complete rebuild, buys you a little bit of leeway.

The team would have to be historically bad without significant injuries for Carroll to be let go.

I don't think he has as much leeway as you think. After our first Super Bowl win we were poised to become the next dynasty. Rarely do teams have as much young talent as the Seahawks did, and never has there been a defense that was of the 2013 Seahawk's caliber be paired with a franchise Quarterback of Russ's caliber. Despite these facts the Seahawks have been in a slow decline since their 2014 run. Each year since that fateful Super Bowl the Seahawks have been declining. Moreover there have also been some questions over Pete Carroll's management in the locker room. His refusal to waive Bevell, and Cable after repeatedly failing to meet Pete Carroll's goals must also be called into question. As one poster stated, we've spent the last three off-seasons focusing on establishing a running game, yet our running game has only been getting worse. That is never a good sign.

When we look even deeper we have to call into question Pete, and John's talent acquisition. We spent first rounders on Harvin, and Graham, both had a minimal impact on the Seahawks. Graham was okay, but a poor fit. We tried to make him a blocking TE with the ability to receive rather than play to his strengths as a player, and Harvin was the same headcase he was in Minnesota. The drafts since 2013 does not paint a pretty picture either.

From the 2013 draft we have zero starters, zero players.

From the 2014 draft we have 1 starter (Britt), the rest are not on our team.

From the 2015 draft we have 1 starter (Clark), and one good depth player/return man (Lockett), the rest are off our team.

We still have most of our 2016 players, but most of them have a question mark over their futures. Ifedi for example graded out as being on of the worst lineman in the league last season, and led the league in penalties. Reed is now a bonafide starter. CJ Procise is a talented RB that can do everything but stay on the field. Vannett was supposed to be a blocking TE, but he hasn't even been that great at that. Odihambo is still on the team, but has not looked very good. Jefferson has some potential but has some trouble staying healthy, Joey Hunt, very bad, Alex Collins, good but not on our team.

From the 2017 draft our first round pick was one of the bigger bust in recent memory. Our second pick looked very bad so far, we'll see what he'll do this season. Griffin is a starter on most teams barring injury, A plus pick here. Delano Hill, don't know much about him. He didnt exactly play much. Nazir Jones has potential, Darboh, not much playing time. Tyson, practice squad player. David Moore, not much playing time.

So, our haul from the 2013 - 2015 drafts include: Britt, Clark, and Lockett. Those are the only three players from those three drafts that are on our team. One of them is a good special teams ace, but hasn't looked them same at WR since his injury, one is a lineman that is very streaky, and the other is a pretty good defensive lineman with some consistency issues at times. At the very least he is about as good as Avril, so that is a plus.

The jury is still out on the years 2016 - 2017. From here we have these players on the "definitely good" list: Reed, and Griffin. The rest either have potential, or are not doing so hot, I think we all know who these players are.

So, in four years we have produced only five good starters. There are still some guys with potential, we shall see if they turn out. Only one of those players, Clark are at the level where I would label them a corner stone player. We have not even done a good job drafting rotational guys

Pete's fate is ultimately tied to how his players respond methinks. If the players come out apathetic like they did last season, I think he is gone. If some of his young guys regress, and nobody steps up, I think he is gone. If he goes 7-9, but his team looks hungry, and motivated I think he is here to stay. Pete's biggest problem is how he let his players run amok. If he isn't able to get his guys hungry again, he is gone. He bought himself some good will, but he has also has whiffed on quite a few things and shown questionable decision making on personnel and coaches (Bevell, Cable), and what is worse he came out with a team that looked apathetic last season.

I don't think Carroll is untouchable by any means. There are a lot of questions that have popped up over the last few seasons, and he is now the oldest coach in the NFL. Last season he started to look his age as well.

Well Jim Mora is unemployed in Football working for ESPN if we need him.

Is there anything that I have said that is wrong? Poor drafts, questionable choices of assistant coaches, a steady decline, and questionable trades, and locker room management. Not only that he is the oldest coach in the NFL. If I'm Paul Allen I'm looking really carefully at letting him go if something doesn't change this season --- especially with Russell Wilson entering his prime.

Pete Carroll brought us a Super Bowl win and an unprecedented amount of success, but he also dismantled that team through poor trades, poor drafts, and poor locker room management. I do not think he can pull off that same magic, especially when we look at the garbage draft classes of 2013-2015. The other ones aren't looking to be so hot either outside of maybe the 2017 class. If this team comes out, looking like a circus in the locker room, and his players look apathetic like they did in 2017, it is time to close the book on the Carroll era.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Couple of thoughts ......

1. They never have been "really bad" during the Pete Carroll era ..... so that isn't going to suddenly happen in 2018.

2. Paul and John and Pete have worked well together and are pretty much set thru the remainder of the current CBA.

3. The end of the world doesn't arrive until 2021. That is when retiring as an NFL fan and moving on to other things becomes an attractive option.

This is a great post. :2thumbs: :irishdrinkers:

 

[chris98251]

1 Super Bowl Championship, 2 NFC Championships, 4 NFC West Championships, 6 playoff births in 8 seasons when taking over a legit 4-12 team and overseeing a complete rebuild, buys you a little bit of leeway.

The team would have to be historically bad without significant injuries for Carroll to be let go.

I don't think he has as much leeway as you think. After our first Super Bowl win we were poised to become the next dynasty. Rarely do teams have as much young talent as the Seahawks did, and never has there been a defense that was of the 2013 Seahawk's caliber be paired with a franchise Quarterback of Russ's caliber. Despite these facts the Seahawks have been in a slow decline since their 2014 run. Each year since that fateful Super Bowl the Seahawks have been declining. Moreover there have also been some questions over Pete Carroll's management in the locker room. His refusal to waive Bevell, and Cable after repeatedly failing to meet Pete Carroll's goals must also be called into question. As one poster stated, we've spent the last three off-seasons focusing on establishing a running game, yet our running game has only been getting worse. That is never a good sign.

When we look even deeper we have to call into question Pete, and John's talent acquisition. We spent first rounders on Harvin, and Graham, both had a minimal impact on the Seahawks. Graham was okay, but a poor fit. We tried to make him a blocking TE with the ability to receive rather than play to his strengths as a player, and Harvin was the same headcase he was in Minnesota. The drafts since 2013 does not paint a pretty picture either.

From the 2013 draft we have zero starters, zero players.

From the 2014 draft we have 1 starter (Britt), the rest are not on our team.

From the 2015 draft we have 1 starter (Clark), and one good depth player/return man (Lockett), the rest are off our team.

We still have most of our 2016 players, but most of them have a question mark over their futures. Ifedi for example graded out as being on of the worst lineman in the league last season, and led the league in penalties. Reed is now a bonafide starter. CJ Procise is a talented RB that can do everything but stay on the field. Vannett was supposed to be a blocking TE, but he hasn't even been that great at that. Odihambo is still on the team, but has not looked very good. Jefferson has some potential but has some trouble staying healthy, Joey Hunt, very bad, Alex Collins, good but not on our team.

From the 2017 draft our first round pick was one of the bigger bust in recent memory. Our second pick looked very bad so far, we'll see what he'll do this season. Griffin is a starter on most teams barring injury, A plus pick here. Delano Hill, don't know much about him. He didnt exactly play much. Nazir Jones has potential, Darboh, not much playing time. Tyson, practice squad player. David Moore, not much playing time.

So, our haul from the 2013 - 2015 drafts include: Britt, Clark, and Lockett. Those are the only three players from those three drafts that are on our team. One of them is a good special teams ace, but hasn't looked them same at WR since his injury, one is a lineman that is very streaky, and the other is a pretty good defensive lineman with some consistency issues at times. At the very least he is about as good as Avril, so that is a plus.

The jury is still out on the years 2016 - 2017. From here we have these players on the "definitely good" list: Reed, and Griffin. The rest either have potential, or are not doing so hot, I think we all know who these players are.

So, in four years we have produced only five good starters. There are still some guys with potential, we shall see if they turn out. Only one of those players, Clark are at the level where I would label them a corner stone player. We have not even done a good job drafting rotational guys

Pete's fate is ultimately tied to how his players respond methinks. If the players come out apathetic like they did last season, I think he is gone. If some of his young guys regress, and nobody steps up, I think he is gone. If he goes 7-9, but his team looks hungry, and motivated I think he is here to stay. Pete's biggest problem is how he let his players run amok. If he isn't able to get his guys hungry again, he is gone. He bought himself some good will, but he has also has whiffed on quite a few things and shown questionable decision making on personnel and coaches (Bevell, Cable), and what is worse he came out with a team that looked apathetic last season.

I don't think Carroll is untouchable by any means. There are a lot of questions that have popped up over the last few seasons, and he is now the oldest coach in the NFL. Last season he started to look his age as well.

Well Jim Mora is unemployed in Football working for ESPN if we need him.

Is there anything that I have said that is wrong? Poor drafts, questionable choices of assistant coaches, a steady decline, and questionable trades, and locker room management. Not only that he is the oldest coach in the NFL. If I'm Paul Allen I'm looking really carefully at letting him go if something doesn't change this season --- especially with Russell Wilson entering his prime.

Pete Carroll brought us a Super Bowl win and an unprecedented amount of success, but he also dismantled that team through poor trades, poor drafts, and poor locker room management. I do not think he can pull off that same magic, especially when we look at the garbage draft classes of 2013-2015. The other ones aren't looking to be so hot either outside of maybe the 2017 class. If this team comes out, looking like a circus in the locker room, and his players look apathetic like they did in 2017, it is time to close the book on the Carroll era.

Pete is loyal to a fault, he was in two Super Bowls and has many playoff wins, his formula works but he is slow to adapt to things and is stubborn also, we were figured out and they did not adapt the offense, we got old on defense but our core was considered Sherman, Earl and Kam, two of those went down with injuries and Sherm was playing hurt valiant but a mistake by Pete. Avril getting hurt was the next blow. You don't figure on losing 3 of your productive stars within a few games of each other. He stuck with them because of loyalty, they were not the best player on that game day.

The New England Super Bowl loss also infected the team with doubt about the mantra of always compete, the defense was getting tired of carrying the offense, Cables Lines and Bevells predictable play calling rubbing many the wrong way on offense and defense, again his loyalty to Bevell and Cable strung things out longer then the should have.


I would love a boss like Pete who gives you every opportunity to succeed and backs you to the wall, but when you have poisen in the water you need to throw out the water. He finally did that but a little late. If we would have jettisoned Bevell and Cable after that bad call I think Lynch is back and we don't have the infighting many knew was going on and was kept under wraps except for game day outbursts. We have the players ready for redemption and maybe get back to the dance one more time before the Contract / player churn was going to be necessary anyway.


Our trades were a year late maybe also, they were going after a all or nothing approach I think, with the injuries we had it fell flat, with everyone healthy it may have been enough to challange.


The draft I think still is open for debate, the players we picked were heirs to the guys he was loyal too and really have not had a shot to show what they can do with any extended time.