John Clayton update on Clowney and Griffen

[nwHawk]

Call me crazy, but I don't see Clowney in Seattle next season. Next target is a 3-tech DT.

 

[Sun Tzu]

If you can get Griffin for 3 just do it and find a way to make room for Clowney later. Even if you lose KJ later i sign Griffin for that price now.

Serious questions:

Would Griffen actually be more effective than the options already on the team? If you believe Griffen would be more effective than the options currently on the team, what is the marginal gain of adding Griffen?

If there is a marginal gain to adding Griffen, is the marginal value of Griffen over the next best alternative on the team enough to justify (1) the cost in $$, (2) the cost in cap space (i.e. cutting other players, passing on other available free agents, passing on free agents that become available at cut-downs, general loss of cap flexibility, etc.), and (3) the loss of snaps and game experience for the young guys?

If Clowney gets signed after Griffen is signed, Griffen loses utility and the effects of #3 above become even more pronounced. In the event that Clowney gets signed after Griffen has been signed, does the Griffen signing still add enough marginal value to the position group to justify 1, 2, & 3 above?

If the goal is to win games, why would we choose to cut a player who has proven incredibly effective and valuable, has been a cornerstone of great defenses, and is a respected team leader, further weaken a defense that was already subpar last year, when the same cap space can be cleared by cutting a combination of below average offensive players who are unlikely to see the field in 2020? For reference, according to overthecap, we are currently spending approx 55% of our salary on the offensive side of the ball and 40% on defense.

 

[getnasty]

If you can get Griffin for 3 just do it and find a way to make room for Clowney later. Even if you lose KJ later i sign Griffin for that price now.

Serious questions:

Would Griffen actually be more effective than the options already on the team? If you believe Griffen would be more effective than the options currently on the team, what is the marginal gain of adding Griffen?

If there is a marginal gain to adding Griffen, is the marginal value of Griffen over the next best alternative on the team enough to justify (1) the cost in $$, (2) the cost in cap space (i.e. cutting other players, passing on other available free agents, passing on free agents that become available at cut-downs, general loss of cap flexibility, etc.), and (3) the loss of snaps and game experience for the young guys?

If Clowney gets signed after Griffen is signed, Griffen loses utility and the effects of #3 above become even more pronounced. In the event that Clowney gets signed after Griffen has been signed, does the Griffen signing still add enough marginal value to the position group to justify 1, 2, & 3 above?

If the goal is to win games, why would we choose to cut a player who has proven incredibly effective and valuable, has been a cornerstone of great defenses, and is a respected team leader, further weaken a defense that was already subpar last year, when the same cap space can be cleared by cutting a combination of below average offensive players who are unlikely to see the field in 2020? For reference, according to overthecap, we are currently spending approx 55% of our salary on the offensive side of the ball and 40% on defense.

I beleive Griffin is a bit better then Mayowa and probably even Irvin when it comes to getting after the QB and if 3 million a year is accurate i have a hard time believing he's not signed already. Signing him and Clowney would certainly create a log jam at DE but i think i'm ok with that for a year, plus Collier, Greene, Clowney can all bump inside on passing downs.

I'm using KJ as an example but you can choose any person you want to free money up to make the deal with Clowney work and maybe you don't have to cut anyone. As much as i love KJ i'm fine rolling with Barton, Brooks and Bobby as our starting linebackers.

 

[themunn]

I beleive Griffin is a bit better then Mayowa and probably even Irvin when it comes to getting after the QB and if 3 million a year is accurate i have a hard time believing he's not signed already. Signing him and Clowney would certainly create a log jam at DE but i think i'm ok with that for a year, plus Collier, Greene, Clowney can all bump inside on passing downs.

I'm using KJ as an example but you can choose any person you want to free money up to make the deal with Clowney work and maybe you don't have to cut anyone. As much as i love KJ i'm fine rolling with Barton, Brooks and Bobby as our starting linebackers.

I think the point is that Griffin probably wants (A LOT) more than $3m, but that's what's on offer at the moment, which is why he hasn't signed. Wait for a team to suffer a torn ACL or something and then his market value shoots right back up, no reason to sign now.

 

[kf3339]

If Griffen will sign for less than $5 mil, why not sign him now, and wait for Clowney later?


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This ; If healthy, and we can For Sure get him on a reasonable deal? I don't see the down side to signing Griffen.
I am curious as to why this hasn't already happened....Obviously we fans aren't privy of what the hold up is, so there is that.

Agreed. Doesn't make senses to not sign Griffen now at that price.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

If we get clowney and Griffen, i believe we make superbowl.

 

[chrispy]

If I'm EGriffin, or his agent, I'm awaiting for JC to sign. If there's a chance to play opposite him, it's worth 1-2 mil on a one year deal because my stats will be so much better than getting doubled every down somewhere else. That easily makes up the difference next off season. Who really knows what's going on behind closed doors, but 3 mil and 5-6 mil could both be the accurate asking price depending on who's rushing on the other end....

I also think Clowney will end up taking into account the rest of the pass rush wherever he ends up.

 

[hawkfan68]

Looks as though the Ravens and Eagles have entered in the race as potential suitors for Clowney.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...s-for-jadeveon-clowney/ar-BB13GP7o?li=BBnb7Kz.

 

[Chapow]

If Griffen will sign for less than $5 mil, why not sign him now, and wait for Clowney later?


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This ; If healthy, and we can For Sure get him on a reasonable deal? I don't see the down side to signing Griffen.
I am curious as to why this hasn't already happened....Obviously we fans aren't privy of what the hold up is, so there is that.

Agreed. Doesn't make sense to not sign Griffen now at that price.

A lot of fans of a lot of other teams probably feel the same way. And yet, out of 32 teams, no one has signed him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[kf3339]

If Griffen will sign for less than $5 mil, why not sign him now, and wait for Clowney later?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This ; If healthy, and we can For Sure get him on a reasonable deal? I don't see the down side to signing Griffen.
I am curious as to why this hasn't already happened....Obviously we fans aren't privy of what the hold up is, so there is that.

Agreed. Doesn't make sense to not sign Griffen now at that price.

A lot of fans of a lot of other teams probably feel the same way. And yet, out of 32 teams, no one has signed him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not every team has the same need right now. We do.

 

[Mad Dog]

This ; If healthy, and we can For Sure get him on a reasonable deal? I don't see the down side to signing Griffen.
I am curious as to why this hasn't already happened....Obviously we fans aren't privy of what the hold up is, so there is that.

Agreed. Doesn't make sense to not sign Griffen now at that price.

A lot of fans of a lot of other teams probably feel the same way. And yet, out of 32 teams, no one has signed him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not every team has the same need right now. We do.

Pretty sure pass rush is a need for a large number of teams.

Likely Griffen's price is too high or scouts know he's done. There are a number of unsigned guys that would be better than a lot of players but likely they want more than vet minimums to suit up.

 

[hawkfan68]

This ; If healthy, and we can For Sure get him on a reasonable deal? I don't see the down side to signing Griffen.
I am curious as to why this hasn't already happened....Obviously we fans aren't privy of what the hold up is, so there is that.

Agreed. Doesn't make sense to not sign Griffen now at that price.

A lot of fans of a lot of other teams probably feel the same way. And yet, out of 32 teams, no one has signed him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not every team has the same need right now. We do.

I remember an article where Griffen was quoted that he would wait out for Clowney to decide and then make his decision. His first choice is the Seahawks and he's prepared to wait. That's probably why 32 teams have not signed him yet.

This is not the exact article but close - https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2...interested-seahawks-waiting-jadeveon-clowney/

 

[Nunya]

I think getting Griffen at $3 mil/year is a pipe dream. I think his price will be around $8-$10 mil a year.

 

[JayhawkMike]

I’m worried we whiff on Clowney and Griffey is next years Ziggy Ansah. Ugh.

 

[Appyhawk]

I want Clowney, but only if Clowney is happy to be a Seahawk. If he isn't happy then we need to do whatever we can to be as good as we can be doing something different. I wouldn't do something different until he decides what is going to make him happy.
We have already taken steps to put ourselves in a good position either way, so there's no reason to rush into a final determination.
Agree with Nunya that we won't be able to get Griff on a Makowa deal, but I don't know exactly what is motivating Griff. All I know is both Griff and Clowney have said they would like to play for Seattle and I would like to see both get that wish. Adding those two to what we already have in place looks like a championship caliber lineup to me.

 

[kf3339]

Agreed. Doesn't make sense to not sign Griffen now at that price.

A lot of fans of a lot of other teams probably feel the same way. And yet, out of 32 teams, no one has signed him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not every team has the same need right now. We do.

I remember an article where Griffen was quoted that he would wait out for Clowney to decide and then make his decision. His first choice is the Seahawks and he's prepared to wait. That's probably why 32 teams have not signed him yet.

This is not the exact article but close - https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2...interested-seahawks-waiting-jadeveon-clowney/

Perhaps, but do you really think Griffen was thinking it would take this long for Clowney to make up his mind? That could weaken Griffen's potential options. It's not like there are a lot of teams left with a massive amount of cap room. I would think Griffen would want to lock in a deal now if the numbers are good. Who knows what is in his mind now.

 

[hawkfan68]

A lot of fans of a lot of other teams probably feel the same way. And yet, out of 32 teams, no one has signed him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not every team has the same need right now. We do.

I remember an article where Griffen was quoted that he would wait out for Clowney to decide and then make his decision. His first choice is the Seahawks and he's prepared to wait. That's probably why 32 teams have not signed him yet.

This is not the exact article but close - https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2...interested-seahawks-waiting-jadeveon-clowney/

Perhaps, but do you really think Griffen was thinking it would take this long for Clowney to make up his mind? That could weaken Griffen's potential options. It's not like there are a lot of teams left with a massive amount of cap room. I would think Griffen would want to lock in a deal now if the numbers are good. Who knows what is in his mind now.

I'm not Griffen so I don't know what's in his mind. I do know that he hasn't signed with anyone yet and multiple sources have reported that he will wait on the Seahawks and Clowney. So far that seems to be holding true for whatever reasons.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I also think Clowney will end up taking into account the rest of the pass rush wherever he ends up.

He's only taking into account one thing and one thing only, money. If he cared about all these other things, he'd already have signed somewhere.

This is a business negotiation, of which John is VERY good at. He set Clowney's value after the season, gave Clowney and his agent our best offer during the combine, they didn't like it, we moved on, and now because the market isn't what Clowney thought it was, our offer is even lower.

That's good leverage negotiation. Give Schneider credit, he knows EXACTLY where every other team even remotely interested in Clowney's at.............and it isn't very high.

Because every team interested sees the same red flags we do, serious injury history and lack of sack/stats to warrant giving Clowney what he wants. You can absolutely love the man, love the player, love how he plays, love how he fits your locker room and scheme.............but not budge off all your concerns which set your max price.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Griffey? Welcome back Kid!

 

[Anajimmc]

This is a business negotiation, of which John is VERY good at. He set Clowney's value after the season, gave Clowney and his agent our best offer.

Exactly, If John was wrong Clowney would already be gone.