James Carpenter

[SalishHawkFan]

Carpenter is great when the play goes his way. Here are the Seahawks adjusted Line yards:

.............Left End........Left Tackle....Guard/Center....Right Tackle....Right End
..........Yds...NFL Rank...Yds...Rank......Yds...Rank.......Yds...Rank......Yds...Rank
SEA ....-2.58 ...25 ...... 4.24 ....10 ......3.75 ...22 .......3.42 ...20 ......2.20 ...25

As you can see, the ONLY place we are successful running the ball is between McQ/Okung and Carpenter.

 

[pehawk]

Hmm what's more likely;

A) The Seahawks staff didn't understand Carpenter was a fit at Tackle?
B) They had wanted to get Carp real experience in the NFL, so threw him out at Tackle

Sorry, I'm not buying a staff which found a 7th round DE to play guard, whiffed on a high-profile "Tackle", and they just so happened to work him at Guard.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Hmm what's more likely;

A) The Seahawks staff didn't understand Carpenter was a fit at Tackle?
B) They had wanted to get Carp real experience in the NFL, so threw him out at Tackle.

Again, if this is true then why waste a 1st round pick on the guy? You just don't draft guards in the 1st round unless their name's are Steve Hutchinson.

I'd say it's more;

C) Pete, John and Cable loved Carp's size, speed and tenacity and thought even though he graded out to be more of a 2nd or 3rd rounder that they could mold him into a tackle.

 

[pehawk]

You're entirely glossing over the fact the Seahawks didn't want that pick. They desperately tried to trade down. The goal of the draft was to give Cable his foundation.

 

[RiverDog]

Just goes to show that Pete is smart enough to know where to play guys. Carp at T is a mistake, he is too fat and slow to react. G is perfect for him.

Same with Irvin at LB, but Irvin can be used at several positions.

Have to say... I thought Carpenter was sensational at tackle for Alabama.

One of the players who jumped off the screen during the year. Demanded credit. And I had him in round one of a lot of my mocks in 2011.

I don't know if the plan always was to put him at guard... after all... they also drafted Moffitt that year and signed Robert Gallery. But I don't think trying Carp at tackle was a mistake. A lot of Mark Ingram's runs at Bama were down to his blocking on the left side.

Excellent point about drafting Moffitt and signing Gallery in Carpenter's rookie season. That alone should tell you that Plan A had Carpenter at RT.

They had the wisdom and courage to admit their mistake and pull the plug on the OT experiment. Sometimes that's hard to do, especially when it involves a very visible first round pick. But if his ultimate destiny was guard, #26 was way too high. Not many guards go in the first round vs. tackles.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You're entirely glossing over the fact the Seahawks didn't want that pick. They desperately tried to trade down. The goal of the draft was to give Cable his foundation.

Not wanting the pick is moot. It doesn't mean you take a stretch pic just because you're stuck with your pick, especially if that pick could be had in the 2nd or 3rd round.........which was the case with Carp. Hell look at all the players they could have taken instead of Carpenter with that pick;

- Jimmy Smith
- Muhammad Wilkerson
- Jaball Sheard
- Akeem Ayers
- Brooks Reed
- Kyle Rudolph

I could keep going, but there were A LOT of quality players taken after Carp in the late 1st, early 2nd that we could have drafted instead of a guard project.

 

[pehawk]

Gallery was a long-term solution, not a valuable "teaching" vet? I didn't know that.

That draft was about shoring up the trenches.

 

[MysterMatt]

Brilliant block on the first Lynch touchdown.

No major errors in pass protection.

Solid B+

I respect the hell out of your analysis, but this seems a little generous. I think you have to take into account the penalties, for starters, and it seems he frequently gets a little lost in pass protection. Even when Okung comes back, I think we should keep him at LG, with McQuistan spelling both him and Sweeney now and then.

I think the biggest issue Carpenter has is that he started the season out of shape and is still working back to where he needs to be. If he improves his discipline at the dinner table and in the gym (needs to work on athleticism a bit) then he'll be as good an LG as there is in the league...but he ain't there yet.

 

[Happypuppy]

Gallery was a long-term solution, not a valuable "teaching" vet? I didn't know that.

That draft was about shoring up the trenches.

I agree. People forget how bad that line was going into the draft. Gallery was at the end of the road and was more or less the teacher of the Cable Way of OL play.

Next year will be interesting. I expect that carp will be signed for not much $$. Offensive lineman are a premium. I think our RT will stay as are RT for a few years I don't see us resigning Bruno or McQ. But drafting some additional rookies

As far as conditioning I think Carp works hard but the injuries piled up and didn't allow him to do his aerobic conditioning.

 

[Laloosh]

Regarding Carp and pass protection, is he bad against everybody or is it smaller, faster guys like a linebacker or end on a stunt inside that he usually struggles with?

I've seen him whiff on some of those guys because he simply reacts to their first step (inside or outside) and then cannot recover quickly enough.

 

[RiverDog]

"dcsufng]Gallery was a long-term solution, not a valuable "teaching" vet? I didn't know that.[/color]
That draft was about shoring up the trenches.

Robert Gallery was signed to a 3 year, $15M contract. That's a pretty expensive teaching vet if that's all he was expected to do.

 

[thebanjodude]

Nice data Salish. Here it is in a little more readable format:

Left End	Left Tackle	Guard/Center	Right Tackle	Right End
-2.58 (25th)	4.25 (10th)	3.75 (22nd)	3.42 (20th)	2.20 (25th)

[tdo=5]Seattle Rushing Behind OL Position[/tdo]

 

[pehawk]

":3h5l8rba]Gallery was a long-term solution, not a valuable "teaching" vet? I didn't know that.[/color]
That draft was about shoring up the trenches.

Robert Gallery was signed to a 3 year, $15M contract. That's a pretty expensive teaching vet if that's all he was expected to do.

Because NFL contracts are guaranteed? And, Gallery wasn't Cable's favorite from Oakland?

Gallery was brought in to teach. The Seahawks had a 4 year plan, one year of which spent investing (and realizing it'll be a learning curve) in the offensive line. The Carp and Moffitt picks seemed fairly clear, IMO.

 

[Snakeeyes007]

He needs Okung back badly, Okung's presence alone settles him down.

McQuistan is garbage as a LT.

And herein lies an irony.

All emotionalism aside, I would argue the following: Carpenter is a left tackle, and should be playing there now with Okung out. He should not have been drafted to play right tackle in the first place. - This is not an argument about the perplexing nature of where he was drafted. - When scouts tested him, he struggled maintaining his balance when stepping to the right as a right tackle does. Like being right-handed/left-handed, most people are more right/left foot dominant. Some more so than others. Carp is very right foot/leg dominant, and moves very well when pushing off his right leg. Cable thought he could teach him to move to his right, but he was wrong. So again, his natural position is left tackle. Here is a shortened scouting report from his combine:

At this stage, Carpenter grades out as a good pass blocker but just adequate in the running game. Carpenter is a highly-durable player who has been able to stay on the field during his career. Has the height and build you look for at the offensive tackle position. Does a good job in pass protection against the speed and bull rush. Possesses the athletic ability to get to the second level when run blocking.

As an aside, like Okung, Carpenter was very durable in college. Both have struggled to stay healthy in the pros unfortunately. :roll:

But I digress. In college, he was better in pass pro then run blocking. He played at a high level on a very dominant line at Alabama. I know many like to focus on his body fat % and claim he's not a good athlete as a result. That's a false assertion. Like MMA fighter Roy "Big Country" Nelson, he is inredibly athletic in spite of his body fat %. Yes, he has struggled to get into NFL playing shape because of his leg injuries, but he's improving his conditioning each week. Carpenter is a better athlete with better size to play left tackle than McQuistan. McQuistan is smart, serviceable lineman who is better with lineman to his right and left. The complex switches and assignment reads that guards need to make are not Carpenter's forte.

Okung is entrenched as our Probowl left tackle when healthy. That leaves Carpenter without a natural position. I would encourage trading him at the end of the year if possible, to find a true left guard, but for right now, with Okung on the mend, he serves us best by playing at his best and most natural position. On top of improving our line in the short term, it's plausible he would perform well enough to increase his trade value for an offseason move. On the floor vs. ceiling front, I don't believe he wouldn't perform any worse at left tackle than McQuistan is right now, and his upside is remarkably higher.

I would like to hear other reasoned thoughts either in support or disagreement to my argument if this doesn't get buried in the thread.

 

[Scottemojo]

":ufmmh7dd]Gallery was a long-term solution, not a valuable "teaching" vet? I didn't know that.[/color]
That draft was about shoring up the trenches.

Robert Gallery was signed to a 3 year, $15M contract. That's a pretty expensive teaching vet if that's all he was expected to do.

Almost every dime of his guaranteed money was in the first year, it was a cut you after one year team friendly deal. Considering Cable was starting from scratch with a super raw line, having a vet who knows his style was a big deal.

 

[RiverDog]

You guys have done a pretty good job of rationalizing the Gallery signing in order to support your theory that Carpenter was not drafted as a tackle. How are you going to explain some of the other stuff, like the drafting of Moffitt in the 3rd round? Or is it your contention that we knowingly spent both our #1 and #3 pick on guards? Has there been any other team in the history of the draft that took two offensive guards within their top 3 picks?

 

[Scottemojo]

You guys have done a pretty good job of rationalizing the Gallery signing in order to support your theory that Carpenter was not drafted as a tackle. How are you going to explain some of the other stuff, like the drafting of Moffitt in the 3rd round? Or is it your contention that we knowingly spent both our #1 and #3 pick on guards? Has there been any other team in the history of the draft that took two offensive guards within their top 3 picks?

Just to be clear, I have no idea what they envisioned when they drafted Carp. I know he got his lunch ate the first time he lined up at RT. And it never got better.

 

[Basis4day]

Cable likes versatility in his O-Line as injuries happen. Moffit was a guard, but also an emergency center if need be. McQ has played every position save Center.
Is it not possible that they draft a player with two possible scenarios in mind? Especially when they're using a pick they were unable to trade?
More often than not, you need to take what the draft gives you. They made their decision. It didn't work out as expected.

 

[pehawk]

You guys have done a pretty good job of rationalizing the Gallery signing in order to support your theory that Carpenter was not drafted as a tackle. How are you going to explain some of the other stuff, like the drafting of Moffitt in the 3rd round? Or is it your contention that we knowingly spent both our #1 and #3 pick on guards? Has there been any other team in the history of the draft that took two offensive guards within their top 3 picks?

Scotte and I are separate people. While we're officially "in a relationship" on Facebook, that doesn't mean we're the same person. We take our relationship AND LGBT rights seriously. I know its easy to poke fun at us, because we're "here and queer", but please respect our individuality.

XOXO

Robert Reed

 

[RiverDog]

You guys have done a pretty good job of rationalizing the Gallery signing in order to support your theory that Carpenter was not drafted as a tackle. How are you going to explain some of the other stuff, like the drafting of Moffitt in the 3rd round? Or is it your contention that we knowingly spent both our #1 and #3 pick on guards? Has there been any other team in the history of the draft that took two offensive guards within their top 3 picks?

Scotte and I are separate people. While we're officially "in a relationship" on Facebook, that doesn't mean we're the same person. We take our relationship AND LGBT rights seriously. I know its easy to poke fun at us, because we're "here and queer", but please respect our individuality.

XOXO

Robert Reed

LOL!