James Carpenter

[HawKnPeppa]

Carpenter played a rapidly improving game.

Seriously, does everyone on hear just repeat after Dierdorf?

Once a whipping boy, always a whipping boy. People see what they want to see, and in Carpenters case they want to be able to say, "See, I told you he sucks!"

Seems like some people like that better than a 'W.' "Looky, look, he made a mistake right there...validate me or I'll hit you upside the head with soma dat hyperbolic sarcasm." :lol:

 

[Atradees]

I just prefer a guy that has better conditioning so next year we dont have to wait for his mid season form.

 

[BASF]

Carpenter's main problem is quick first step DT and shifting out to get DE's when our tackle has outside LB responsibility. He simply is not quick enough to recover if he doesn't get his hands on those guys at the snap. Especially if he guesses wrong in which direction his man is going.

In regards to the whipping boy comment, amen. There was a gif here of Sidney Rice standing while the Colts picked off the pass and someone chimed in about Carpenter's play on that particular one. He was the only linemen who actually stonewalled his rusher. All the other linemen gave about four yards to their rusher, while Carpenter stood his man up and kept engaged until Wilson had to flush out of the pocket with McQuistan's failure. That's looking to see something wrong.

 

[RiverDog]

Carpenter's main problem is quick first step DT and shifting out to get DE's when our tackle has outside LB responsibility. He simply is not quick enough to recover if he doesn't get his hands on those guys at the snap. Especially if he guesses wrong in which direction his man is going.

In regards to the whipping boy comment, amen. There was a gif here of Sidney Rice standing while the Colts picked off the pass and someone chimed in about Carpenter's play on that particular one. He was the only linemen who actually stonewalled his rusher. All the other linemen gave about four yards to their rusher, while Carpenter stood his man up and kept engaged until Wilson had to flush out of the pocket with McQuistan's failure. That's looking to see something wrong.

I haven't had a chance to watch the replay of the game yet. As a rule, I don't pay a lot of attention to line play during the game but concentrate on it when I watch the replay so I've pretty much withheld comment about Carpenter's performance vs. the Titans.

But I will say that in general, I agree with the above comments about his overall abilities. James Carpenter doesn't have good foot quickness. We saw it when they first tried him out at RT...how in the heck did our brain trust ever get the idea in their heads that he had the potential to be an NFL OT?...and we've seen it out of his play at guard. He's very good at the point of attack when he's blocking against a down lineman a couple of feet away from him but he has a problem when he has to get vertical and take a couple of steps. I saw Brian Cushing blow past him like he was standing still. His other problem is his conditioning, which may have led to his being injured a lot.

Unless we see some major improvements out of him the rest of the way, I don't see Carpenter returning after this season. He's awfully expensive for the amount of contribution he provides, which is basically a one dimensional, straight ahead run blocker that spends almost as much time on the DL as he does on the playing field.

 

[pehawk]

He was NEVER drafted to play Tackle. Uggh! He was thrown out there because the Seahawks had no better options.

If he stays healthy, Carpenter will an absolute force. He's been in game shape. Dude busted his arse to get back in shape last year, when he didn't have to. That's a good sign, IMO.

 

[Scottemojo]

People talk about his slow footwork. Inside the phone booth, his footwork is fine. Just don't go in that phone booth. 2nd level? yeah, slow feet. Does he reach? yeah, but he is getting better. I see him go to the 2nd level and linebackers are getting out of his way. Which isn't too difficult, but speaks about how much they want to tangle.

He is a massive and strong man. He is one of the few Justin Smith tries to go around, not through. He will never be a seek and destroy guard like Hutchinson, but when you need just one yard, there ya go. Besides, we have Sweezy for seek and destroy, which is the one thing he is pretty good at.

 

[pehawk]

He WORKED Justin Smith in SF last year, IIRC.

 

[RiverDog]

He was NEVER drafted to play Tackle. Uggh! He was thrown out there because the Seahawks had no better options.
If he stays healthy, Carpenter will an absolute force. He's been in game shape. Dude busted his arse to get back in shape last year, when he didn't have to. That's a good sign, IMO.

I beg to differ. Carpenter most definitely was drafted to play tackle, although his ability to play guard did factor into the decision to draft him. He was announced as a tackle when he was drafted in 2011 and he played at right tackle from the opening day of training camp, started there as a rookie in every preseason game and for the first 8 regular season games when they finally gave up on the experiment. He wasn't thrown in there due to injuries or some other unexpected occurrence.

 

[pehawk]

He was NEVER drafted to play Tackle. Uggh! He was thrown out there because the Seahawks had no better options.
If he stays healthy, Carpenter will an absolute force. He's been in game shape. Dude busted his arse to get back in shape last year, when he didn't have to. That's a good sign, IMO.

I beg to differ. Carpenter most definitely was drafted to play tackle. That's the position the team announced him as when he was drafted in 2011 and he played at right tackle from the opening day of training camp, started there in every preseason game and for the first 8 regular season games when they finally gave up on the experiment. He wasn't thrown in there due to injuries or some other unexpected occurrence.

The Seahawks we're the ONLY team to work Carpenter out at G at the Senior Bowl. In fact, that's the only placed they worked him.

He was put at T because Pete gets talent on the field, one way or another. Bruce wasn't drafted to put his hand on the ground either.

They also "never gave up on the experiment", he got hurt in 2011.

 

[RiverDog]

He was NEVER drafted to play Tackle. Uggh! He was thrown out there because the Seahawks had no better options.
If he stays healthy, Carpenter will an absolute force. He's been in game shape. Dude busted his arse to get back in shape last year, when he didn't have to. That's a good sign, IMO.

I beg to differ. Carpenter most definitely was drafted to play tackle. That's the position the team announced him as when he was drafted in 2011 and he played at right tackle from the opening day of training camp, started there in every preseason game and for the first 8 regular season games when they finally gave up on the experiment. He wasn't thrown in there due to injuries or some other unexpected occurrence.

The Seahawks we're the ONLY team to work Carpenter out at G at the Senior Bowl. In fact, that's the only placed they worked him.

He was put at T because Pete gets talent on the field, one way or another. Bruce wasn't drafted to put his hand on the ground either.

They also "never gave up on the experiment", he got hurt in 2011.

Since the middle of his rookie season, Carpenter has never played offensive tackle even though we've had the need on several occasions, including this season when Breno went down. I would say that qualifies as giving up on the experiment.

Bruce was drafted as Clemmon's eventual replacement at Leo. He was not drafted as a linebacker.

As with a lot of players, Carp and Irvin ended up at different positions than the initial plan called for as the coaching staff discovered their strengths/weaknesses and as team needs changed.

 

[pehawk]

Well, then it was just coincidence that the Seahawks we're the only team to work out Carpenter at guard, I guess? It must be what you say.

He was drafted to be a road grating guard. He was thrown in at T to get a guy who didn't play much understanding the ZBS principles and improve.

I disagree with Irvin. If Clem was cut today Avril would take Clem's spot. Bruce was drafted to be OLB/Rusher/Spinner/Defensive Toy.

 

[Largent80]

Just goes to show that Pete is smart enough to know where to play guys. Carp at T is a mistake, he is too fat and slow to react. G is perfect for him.

Same with Irvin at LB, but Irvin can be used at several positions.

 

[RiverDog]

Well, then it was just coincidence that the Seahawks we're the only team to work out Carpenter at guard, I guess? It must be what you say.

He was drafted to be a road grating guard. He was thrown in at T to get a guy who didn't play much understanding the ZBS principles and improve.

I disagree with Irvin. If Clem was cut today Avril would take Clem's spot. Bruce was drafted to be OLB/Rusher/Spinner/Defensive Toy.

The fact that the Hawks worked Carp out at guard does not mean that Plan A was for him was to play guard. They were collecting information prior to the draft, and since they didn't have any film on Carp as a guard, they worked him out at that position. Carp's ability to play guard was a large factor in our drafting him at #26, but the initial plan was for him to play RT. He wasn't "thrown in" at RT. He played RT in his rookie season training camp and in the preseason before injuries became a factor. Guard was a fall back Plan B, just as the Raiders did with Robert Gallery a few years back when he couldn't cut it at OT.

Pete himself said that the plan for Irvin was for him to play Leo, and that's where he played when Clemmons went down at the end of last season.

 

[pehawk]

We'll just have to wait and see on Irvin. Last year's moot, the Seahawks had no other options at LEO.

We'll see who plays LEO Thursday, as it appears Clemons will be out, right? Maybe's Irvin will wear #56 so we're both right?

 

[RiverDog]

We'll just have to wait and see on Irvin. Last year's moot, the Seahawks had no other options at LEO.

We'll see who plays LEO Thursday, as it appears Clemons will be out, right? Maybe's Irvin will wear #56 so we're both right?

LOL!

I doubt that the Hawks will play Irvin at Leo this season unless we're in a real pickle. It would be unwise to have him change positions then after only his second game, change him again to Leo. Besides, Irvin looked really bad at Leo vs. Atlanta, and he hasn't worked at that position since. Regardless of who plays there Thursday, it doesn't change the Hawks original intentions... that is unless you doubt Pete's word.

 

[hawker84]

I would think Avril will get the start at Leo, then move Bennett outside at the other DE position on obvious passing downs. With Bennett and Avril both healthy and now Irvin back, i have no problem seeing Clems miss a game, just make sure he's healthy come Dec, Jan....

 

[Evil_Shenanigans]

Were it not for his Three (2 technically) penalties we might not even be having this conversation. I myself was bitching about his penalties during and after the game, but after I got a chance to rewatch it my tune changed a bit. He (along with the return of Unger) was pivotal in making some pretty large holes for Lynch to exploit on both touchdowns. If you watch some of his college highlights he actually had pretty good footwork. Not much video exists of his Pro exploits aside from just watching the games. I suspect he might be a little more pensive since his injury and I think his progression will continue. C+ from me!

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Just goes to show that Pete is smart enough to know where to play guys. Carp at T is a mistake, he is too fat and slow to react. G is perfect for him.

Same with Irvin at LB, but Irvin can be used at several positions.

Have to say... I thought Carpenter was sensational at tackle for Alabama.

One of the players who jumped off the screen during the year. Demanded credit. And I had him in round one of a lot of my mocks in 2011.

I don't know if the plan always was to put him at guard... after all... they also drafted Moffitt that year and signed Robert Gallery. But I don't think trying Carp at tackle was a mistake. A lot of Mark Ingram's runs at Bama were down to his blocking on the left side.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Just goes to show that Pete is smart enough to know where to play guys. Carp at T is a mistake, he is too fat and slow to react. G is perfect for him

If this is true, then why waste a 1st round draft pick on the guy? Don't kid yourself, Carp was drafted to play tackle, thus the 1st round. It wasn't until he got here, got injured every other day and couldn't compete at the tackle spot that he was moved to guard.

Can Carp be a decent guard if healthy? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that he was incorrectly scouted and graded out as a 1st round tackle.

Pete and John have hit on the vast majority of their draft picks, so I'm not going to sweat Carp, but let's tell the truth.

 

[pehawk]

Just goes to show that Pete is smart enough to know where to play guys. Carp at T is a mistake, he is too fat and slow to react. G is perfect for him

If this is true, then why waste a 1st round draft pick on the guy? Don't kid yourself, Carp was drafted to play tackle, thus the 1st round. It wasn't until he got here, got injured every other day and couldn't compete at the tackle spot that he was moved to guard.

Can Carp be a decent guard if healthy? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that he was incorrectly scouted and graded out as a 1st round tackle.

Pete and John have hit on the vast majority of their draft picks, so I'm not going to sweat Carp, but let's tell the truth.

The Seahawks tried desperately to get out of that spot. Also, the regime seemed to understand they we're gonna have to bite the pillow at OL, eventually. The 1st quarter of the season in 2011 was basically forfeiting for the now, for the long-term good.

Cable builds depth through versatility. We'll agree to disagree, but I think Carp was drafted to play guard, the regime just wanted him to get experience. He didn't have much of that coming out (me on the other hand, I came out with LOTS of experience).