Is our Offensive Line really that bad?

[lsheldon]

Mike Tanier is ranking our offensive line #30 of 32 teams.

I know Russell spent a good part of his time last year under pressure, and I felt he was blitzed quite a bit more than Tanier claims they were. Seems like teams rushed 5+ most downs, with 6-8 rushers fairly frequently. Or was I halucinating?

What are your thoughts on our Offensive Line outlook this coming year?

30. Seattle Seahawks. The Seahawks will be camping in the top five for most of this series; don't expect a lot of drama when the secondary rankings come out in two weeks. But they have come by this lone appearance at the bottom honestly.

Don't believe it? Explain how a team with Marshawn Lynch and an option threat at quarterback finished dead last in the league in converting power situations: The Seahawks got the job done on just 49 percent of short-yardage and goal-to-go conversions. Explain how Russell Wilson got sacked 44 times, despite the fact that the Seahawks rarely faced the kind of pressure-passing situations that lead to easy sacks. Finally, take a look at the three-fifths of their line that are not named Max Unger or Russell Okung, and note that two regulars from last season are gone.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/77 ... ter#!WqwY4

 

[bloodkingg]

Does playing against the Cards, Rams, and 49ers a total of 6x a year mean anything? Hmm...

 

[brimsalabim]

Okung and Unger were as much a part of the problem as anyone and maybe more so.
They were injured and ineffective most of the season. Hopefully both of them will stay fully recovered and in good health this season. The Oline needs to be a cohesive unit in order to function at its best. It's hard to achieve that with constantly rotating parts.

 

[hawknation2014]

I'm actually pretty excited about the offensive line.

We have a LT and C who should be all healed up and ready to return to their Pro Bowl level of play. Those are the two most critical positions on your line.

Sweezy is going into his third year as an offensive lineman and starter, and I'm expecting a lot from him in terms of the development of his technique. He's an amazing athlete to have on the interior of your line.

Bx3 (Bowie, Bailey, and perhaps Britt) should add a lot to the line. Bowie in particular is going to have a big year at RT because he's such an excellent run blocker.

The only concerns, IMO, are left guard and developing a true backup LT.

 

[FlyingGreg]

The line was really rough to watch last season. I am amazed Wilson didn't get killed. When they weren't getting manhandled, they were committing penalties (ok, I'm looking at you, Breno). A lot of fans try to sugar coat it or distract with the "we won the Super Bowl" argument, which is true - but that doesn't mean the line doesn't belong in the cross hairs.

There are a lot of reasons ...primarily, teams were trying to kill Wilson after we trail blazed down the stretch in 2012. It seems like we rarely start the same line combo two games in a row, there are always injuries disrupting progress. We are still starting a converted DT at guard, and he is up and down - and his pass blocking is scary.

I'm hoping for significant improvement this year - the coaches HAVE to know it's an issue. I'm just not sure where it's going to come from. We are damn lucky we have an escape artist in Wilson at QB.

The other thing to remember this season, we are going to KILL defenses that try that gang busters all out blitz crap we saw last season. Percy Harvin will make teams pay dearly for bringing the house.

 

[hawknation2014]

There are a lot of reasons ...primarily, teams were trying to kill Wilson after we trail blazed down the stretch in 2012. It seems like we rarely start the same line combo two games in a row, there are always injuries disrupting progress. We are still starting a converted DT at guard, and he is up and down - and his pass blocking is scary.

Sweezy really wasn't the problem last year. He played 983 snaps at right guard (131 more than any other linemen) yet allowed just ONE sack. That gave him the highest pass blocking grade on the team, per PFF's evaluations. Overall, Sweezy was the only consistent presence on the line last year, given the injuries to Unger/Okung/Giacomini and the fact that Bailey and Bowie were only rookies. Expect him to further his development this year.

 

[FlyingGreg]

There are a lot of reasons ...primarily, teams were trying to kill Wilson after we trail blazed down the stretch in 2012. It seems like we rarely start the same line combo two games in a row, there are always injuries disrupting progress. We are still starting a converted DT at guard, and he is up and down - and his pass blocking is scary.

Sweezy really wasn't the problem last year. He played 983 snaps at right guard (131 more than any other linemen) yet allowed just ONE sack. That gave him the highest pass blocking grade on the team, per PFF's evaluations. Overall, Sweezy was the only consistent presence on the line last year, given the injuries to Unger/Okung/Giacomini and the fact that Bailey and Bowie were only rookies. Expect him to further his development this year.

Allowing sacks is one metric. Allowing defenders to push right through him to force Wilson out of the pocket would be another I'd be interested in seeing, although I doubt they track that.

Sweezy was better, and not the only blame for the line. But just because he only allowed one sack (which I'm also skeptical of considering Wilson was sacked 44 times), it doesn't mean he didn't have issues. I've re-watched the 2013 season 3 times over again in detail since the Super Bowl, and our line (including Sweezy) had a lot of issues. Just watch a game and watch the number of times Wilson has to bail out and escape with his life. That's a combination of the line, the backs picking up blitzes, the receivers not getting separation and Wilson being a little too quick to bail...

 

[sutz]

In a word, no. Teams blitzed us more because Wilson is still a young guy than any other reason. I assume that will taper off if we continue to win at a high rate, which I expect. I expect another year where individual stats are not stellar, but team stats, especially W/L, will be exceptional. We are a contender. That's a fact, Jack.

IMO, Cable, Bevell, and Pete have done a good job rotating guys in and out both to get the younger guys experience and also to give guys experience at more than one position so that we have versatile guys so if someone goes down, we don't crumble from it.

Some fans won't be happy until we have 5 all-stars across the front. I'll be happy with 7-8 guys that can get the job done when we need them to. So, I don't buy a bottom 5 ranking. It's one guy's opinion. I think he's wrong.

 

[hawknation2014]

There are a lot of reasons ...primarily, teams were trying to kill Wilson after we trail blazed down the stretch in 2012. It seems like we rarely start the same line combo two games in a row, there are always injuries disrupting progress. We are still starting a converted DT at guard, and he is up and down - and his pass blocking is scary.

Sweezy really wasn't the problem last year. He played 983 snaps at right guard (131 more than any other linemen) yet allowed just ONE sack. That gave him the highest pass blocking grade on the team, per PFF's evaluations. Overall, Sweezy was the only consistent presence on the line last year, given the injuries to Unger/Okung/Giacomini and the fact that Bailey and Bowie were only rookies. Expect him to further his development this year.

Allowing sacks is one metric. Allowing defenders to push right through him to force Wilson out of the pocket would be another I'd be interested in seeing, although I doubt they track that.

Sweezy was better, and not the only blame for the line. But just because he only allowed one sack (which I'm also skeptical of considering Wilson was sacked 44 times), it doesn't mean he didn't have issues. I've re-watched the 2013 season 3 times over again in detail since the Super Bowl, and our line (including Sweezy) had a lot of issues. Just watch a game and watch the number of times Wilson has to bail out and escape with his life. That's a combination of the line, the backs picking up blitzes, the receivers not getting separation and Wilson being a little too quick to bail...

That would be considered a "hurry," which they do track. Sweezy allowed 19 hurries, which is a significant number. For comparison, Breno also allowed 19 hurries (and four sacks) but on only 552 snaps. McQuistan allowed 23 hurries (and eight sacks). Even taking those hurries into consideration, Sweezy still managed the line's best pass blocking grade.

And most importantly, Sweezy missed only one game last season (due to a concussion): the dreaded home loss to Arizona in week 16. I'm sure you recall how the offensive line played in that game, sans Sweezy. Wilson running for his life, four sacks allowed, 15% third downs, and just 108 passing yards. That game alone evidences his importance.

 

[warden]

Our offensive line can call themselves Superbowl Champions

 

[Smellyman]

They weren't great.

ML and RW flourishing was more a testament to their skill. RW often had to do the spectacular while ML had to turn in 1 yard gains into Beast mode 4 yard gains.

The health of the oline had a lot to do with it and the division played in.

 

[Anthony!]

Mike Tanier is ranking our offensive line #30 of 32 teams.

I know Russell spent a good part of his time last year under pressure, and I felt he was blitzed quite a bit more than Tanier claims they were. Seems like teams rushed 5+ most downs, with 6-8 rushers fairly frequently. Or was I halucinating?

What are your thoughts on our Offensive Line outlook this coming year?

30. Seattle Seahawks. The Seahawks will be camping in the top five for most of this series; don't expect a lot of drama when the secondary rankings come out in two weeks. But they have come by this lone appearance at the bottom honestly.

Don't believe it? Explain how a team with Marshawn Lynch and an option threat at quarterback finished dead last in the league in converting power situations: The Seahawks got the job done on just 49 percent of short-yardage and goal-to-go conversions. Explain how Russell Wilson got sacked 44 times, despite the fact that the Seahawks rarely faced the kind of pressure-passing situations that lead to easy sacks. Finally, take a look at the three-fifths of their line that are not named Max Unger or Russell Okung, and note that two regulars from last season are gone.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/77 ... ter#!WqwY4

Yes when you consider that football outsiders.com has them rated 32nd statistically in pass blocking yeah they are that bad

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

[Anthony!]

In a word, no. Teams blitzed us more because Wilson is still a young guy than any other reason. I assume that will taper off if we continue to win at a high rate, which I expect. I expect another year where individual stats are not stellar, but team stats, especially W/L, will be exceptional. We are a contender. That's a fact, Jack.

IMO, Cable, Bevell, and Pete have done a good job rotating guys in and out both to get the younger guys experience and also to give guys experience at more than one position so that we have versatile guys so if someone goes down, we don't crumble from it.

Some fans won't be happy until we have 5 all-stars across the front. I'll be happy with 7-8 guys that can get the job done when we need them to. So, I don't buy a bottom 5 ranking. It's one guy's opinion. I think he's wrong.

IN a word yes, the whole blitz thing is irrelevant they were that bad again see footbaloutsiders.cm

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

All see a breakdown

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... crambling/

They were that bad

 

[joeshaney]

Our oline sucked pretty bad at times last year.
Blaming our division or injuries is lame for two reasons.
1. We're still in the same division
2. Injuries happen

The biggest thing we need is quality depth. Next, a RT who can better handle quinn/long/smith/etc.

 

[JKent82]

But seriously how come we suck so bad at short yardage? I get that it's hard to pin blame for sacks between the QB, line, and WR's and that argument tends to get circular but why aren't we better running?

I mean dead last in power situations? Is it scheme? Predictability in playcalling? Marshawn being tenative? Crappy O-line push? It seems to be more ignored cause sacks are fun to talk about. Then again we're pretty good at running the ball in normal downs so who knows.

Looking at the FO stats, league average is 64% and we're at 49%.

 

[Hawknballs]

yes our offensive line is really that bad, or at least it was last year and we'll have to wait and see this year. Hopefully they can stay healthy and hopefully a year of experience under bowie/bailey, and a contract year for carpenter where it sounds like he's in his best shape can turn it around.

If we didn't have an escape artist like wilson who also generally makes good decisions and takes care of the football, we lose more than 3 games last season.

gonna have to wait and see on this one. However it was pretty bad last season.

Think about all of our position groups - it was obviously the worst one, but what would have happened with our season if it had only even been as good as the second worst group on the team last year? I don't know what group that would be but that's my point, it's our weakness. If wed have had a top 10 Oline last year we probably would have gone 19-0.

 

[hawknation2014]

But seriously how come we suck so bad at short yardage? I get that it's hard to pin blame for sacks between the QB, line, and WR's and that argument tends to get circular but why aren't we better running?

I mean dead last in power situations? Is it scheme? Predictability in playcalling? Marshawn being tenative? Crappy O-line push? It seems to be more ignored cause sacks are fun to talk about. Then again we're pretty good at running the ball in normal downs so who knows.

Looking at the FO stats, league average is 64% and we're at 49%.

#1 Our best run blocker, Russell Okung, missed half the season with a foot injury and slugged through the other games. His replacement, Paul McQuistan, was dreadful as a run blocker. McQuistan had a -8.7 run grade on PFF.

#2 James Carpenter. That whole season was one of the worst run blocking performances I have ever seen from the starting left guard. Carpenter lacked any kind of explosiveness off the line of scrimmage. The best running plays seemed to happen when Carpenter just managed to get his body out of the way without actually blocking anyone. -13.7 grade on PFF.

#3 Max Unger playing with an injured triceps and pectoral muscle. Center is a difficult position. It's nearly impossible to snap the football and engage a defensive tackle when you have an injured arm or chest. Unger battled through those injuries valiantly, but he clearly was not playing on a Pro Bowl level.

The fact that we were dealing with all these issues on the offensive line and still managed to win a Super Bowl is still amazing to me.

 

[chet380]

Maybe the guy we missed by one pick in the 6th rd., Duvernay-Tardif, might not make the Chiefs lineup and be available for claim or trade -- very high SPARQ scores.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

There are a lot of reasons ...primarily, teams were trying to kill Wilson after we trail blazed down the stretch in 2012. It seems like we rarely start the same line combo two games in a row, there are always injuries disrupting progress. We are still starting a converted DT at guard, and he is up and down - and his pass blocking is scary.

Sweezy really wasn't the problem last year. He played 983 snaps at right guard (131 more than any other linemen) yet allowed just ONE sack. That gave him the highest pass blocking grade on the team, per PFF's evaluations. Overall, Sweezy was the only consistent presence on the line last year, given the injuries to Unger/Okung/Giacomini and the fact that Bailey and Bowie were only rookies. Expect him to further his development this year.

Allowing sacks is one metric. Allowing defenders to push right through him to force Wilson out of the pocket would be another I'd be interested in seeing, although I doubt they track that.

Sweezy was better, and not the only blame for the line. But just because he only allowed one sack (which I'm also skeptical of considering Wilson was sacked 44 times), it doesn't mean he didn't have issues. I've re-watched the 2013 season 3 times over again in detail since the Super Bowl, and our line (including Sweezy) had a lot of issues. Just watch a game and watch the number of times Wilson has to bail out and escape with his life. That's a combination of the line, the backs picking up blitzes, the receivers not getting separation and Wilson being a little too quick to bail...

That's why I'm hopeful for Sweezy. He started to 'get it,' although not completely, last season..and he still has a ton of upside.

 

[jlwaters1]

Our oline sucked pretty bad at times last year.
Blaming our division or injuries is lame for two reasons.
1. We're still in the same division
2. Injuries happen

The biggest thing we need is quality depth. Next, a RT who can better handle quinn/long/smith/etc.

No, I disagree, injuries explains the issues. No OL's in the in the NFL have tremendous depth. I've read articles all last year pointing out that teams are struggling just to find 5 quality starters, when your best players on the OL-- LT and C and injured for over a quarter of the season, it's obvious that the team would struggle.

The mass of injuries was a significant factor into the OL play as a whole.

I think the OL is much better off than most believe, I think we added good depth with Britt and Gilliam at tackle and we've added competition at guard with a few free agent/ futures contract guys. I think we'll see Sweezy take a big leap forward in consistency and production going into year 3.