Is Bevell to blame for much of this teams discontent?

[Siouxhawk]

I don't give a rat's ass who you believe in or pledge your allegiance to. I'll keep my faith in Pete.

That would be conceding the argument I guess.

So, You give credence to a bunch of Know-It-All's, and none to the Coach that got us our FIRST Lombardi.... Check. :2thumbs:

I am saying that he makes mistakes, his game management has had similar issues since he has been here, he picked the worst time that one could possibly have to have a brain fart with a OC that didn't have the common sense to play to our strengths. Those being Lynch, or a roll out run option for Wilson, especially if they were stacked inside big, or give Wilson audible options. There are a Dozen other things that would have given us multiple chances to score rather then a forced pass inside with any tip or bounce could be intercepted with our worst receiver on the depth chart on the receiving end.

The fact they were confused and scrambling and wasting time prior to the call is also a indication of bad game management and planning be it OC or Pete, I mean really, Bevell had to ask Pete what to do?

B.S. That never happened. I see you fabricate from make-believe land to try to validate your points.

 

[chris98251]

B.S. That never happened. I see you fabricate from make-believe land to try to validate your points.

It's on Tape for you to watch. The Patriots watched them scramble and is why they didn't call a time out and had tome to adjust.

If your going to call someone a LIAR you better have the footage to refute my statement, it's on film. Now I am pissed so tread carefully.

This talks about it and notice the lack of spreading between Kearse and Lockette, they were to close as well making it easy for Browner to jump Kearse and not be picked allowing Butler to step up and make the play.

[youtube]MeNYQaS3rZI[/youtube]

Belichek talks about our confusion and letting the clock run as well. Lynch was down at 59 seconds left so they wasted about 30 seconds. The spacing is on the design and guess who that is on, if they are spread out Butler can't make that play.

 

[Siouxhawk]

First of all, I wouldn't call it confusion or scrambling. We got the play to the huddle in plenty of time and we were at the line of scrimmage with time to spare. Remember, we were the ones burning the clock, so time was irrelevant to us when we decided to go in that direction prior to the Marshawn run to the 1.

Belichick would have looked like an idiot had we punched it in, which we nearly did.

I don't know what your issue is with the stack? We use it all the time. The spacing the Patriots were practicing against was wider because it was back at the 7, which allows you more room to operate. But being in goal line, where it's more bunched, we needed a) Kearse to drive Browner back just enough to impede the path of Butler or b) Ricardo to get a good burst with his shoulders and hips perpendicular to the LOS before opening up to accept the ball from Russ. He just has to beat Butler to the point of delivery. And he nearly did.

If either one of those things happen, we win the game and Billy Boy only has 26 seconds to work with to get into field goal range.

 

[nash72]

If either one of those things happen, we win the game and Billy Boy only has 26 seconds to work with to get into field goal range.

And yet neither did. Thats what happens when you play to your weaknesses.

 

[Seymour]

Who do we take seriously, a whole bunch of fans that have seen the game, played the game, players that have played the game and were stars, analysts whose job it is to dissect plays, other coaches, the winning coach, or one fan or group of fans that say it was all good and the right play to call. 8)

But you should be grateful! And don't forget.... "We were a doormat of a franchise" before Bevell and his cronies got here according to the leader of the bandwagoners. :179422:

 

[Seymour]

B.S. That never happened. I see you fabricate from make-believe land to try to validate your points.

It's on Tape for you to watch. The Patriots watched them scramble and is why they didn't call a time out and had tome to adjust.

If your going to call someone a LIAR you better have the footage to refute my statement, it's on film. Now I am pissed so tread carefully.

This talks about it and notice the lack of spreading between Kearse and Lockette, they were to close as well making it easy for Browner to jump Kearse and not be picked allowing Butler to step up and make the play.

Belichek talks about our confusion and letting the clock run as well. Lynch was down at 59 seconds left so they wasted about 30 seconds. The spacing is on the design and guess who that is on, if they are spread out Butler can't make that play.

He calls everyone a liar when he has nothing else to add. Then demands a link to prove it or shut up. It seems to be acceptable here since this goes on and on. Any mention of Bevell and there is his jackal guarding every post. Go do a post count in this thread alone, it's ridiculous.

 

[Uncle Si]

First of all, I wouldn't call it confusion or scrambling. We got the play to the huddle in plenty of time and we were at the line of scrimmage with time to spare. Remember, we were the ones burning the clock, so time was irrelevant to us when we decided to go in that direction prior to the Marshawn run to the 1.

Belichick would have looked like an idiot had we punched it in, which we nearly did.

I don't know what your issue is with the stack? We use it all the time. The spacing the Patriots were practicing against was wider because it was back at the 7, which allows you more room to operate. But being in goal line, where it's more bunched, we needed a) Kearse to drive Browner back just enough to impede the path of Butler or b) Ricardo to get a good burst with his shoulders and hips perpendicular to the LOS before opening up to accept the ball from Russ. He just has to beat Butler to the point of delivery. And he nearly did.

If either one of those things happen, we win the game and Billy Boy only has 26 seconds to work with to get into field goal range.

It was a bad play call. Why is that hard to accept?

I mean look at your explanation of the play... if a, b, c and then d (the patriots not being aware of the play call) happen we win the game.

It was too complicated, involved the wrong players and was poorly executed (because it involved the wrong players). Continuing to defend it at every turn is just disrupting good conversation at this point

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Dumb play call, but still a great play by Butler. Nobody seems to want to give the guy credit for it.
And also, they blew a 10 point lead. 60 minute game, not just one play.

 

[Seymour]

I don't get into "the play" much, because I think Simon is more responsible for that loss personally. But I do agree with Pete that a pass is the right call there. Just not that pass! An inside slant into the teeth of the D is the worst possible call there IMO. I too would have rolled Russsell out and kept run / pass / throw away options open.

 

[nash72]

I don't get into "the play" much, because I think Simon is more responsible for that loss personally.

Man he was awful wasnt he? I never liked him before, but that game cemented it.

 

[Siouxhawk]

First of all, I wouldn't call it confusion or scrambling. We got the play to the huddle in plenty of time and we were at the line of scrimmage with time to spare. Remember, we were the ones burning the clock, so time was irrelevant to us when we decided to go in that direction prior to the Marshawn run to the 1.

Belichick would have looked like an idiot had we punched it in, which we nearly did.

I don't know what your issue is with the stack? We use it all the time. The spacing the Patriots were practicing against was wider because it was back at the 7, which allows you more room to operate. But being in goal line, where it's more bunched, we needed a) Kearse to drive Browner back just enough to impede the path of Butler or b) Ricardo to get a good burst with his shoulders and hips perpendicular to the LOS before opening up to accept the ball from Russ. He just has to beat Butler to the point of delivery. And he nearly did.

If either one of those things happen, we win the game and Billy Boy only has 26 seconds to work with to get into field goal range.

It was a bad play call. Why is that hard to accept?

I mean look at your explanation of the play... if a, b, c and then d (the patriots not being aware of the play call) happen we win the game.

It was too complicated, involved the wrong players and was poorly executed (because it involved the wrong players). Continuing to defend it at every turn is just disrupting good conversation at this point

When a play doesn't do what it's intended to do, in most cases you could say it was off by one variable, giving it a chance to produce with another positive variable. That doesn't make it complicated, it just means at that point in time the odds were stacked against us.

Let's say we tried a run with Marshawn, but he gets stuffed and fumbles. Basically same ending -- a) you count on the combination of adequate blocking mixed with BeastMode to get you a yard and b) Marshawn seldom fumbles, but Ninkovich dives over an intended seal block and hits Marshawn in such a way that pops the ball loose.

It doesn't usually happen that way in the hypothetical and all I'm saying about the play in question is that I'd expect it to have a 90% accuracy rate if ran 100 times in the same situation again -- and with the cast of characters that we had on the field then.

As Soulfish says, give credit to Browner and Butler for making a sensational effort to deny us and let's not forget all the little misses we had on both sides of the ball leading up to that point that wouldn't have required such a play to unproductively dwell on. Seymour brings up Tharold Simon. Yes, he was erratic in his coverage. But we also allowed two huge third-and-long completions to Edelman on the drive that resulted in the Amendola touchdown. Those receptions came through the heart of the LOB.

My question is what does all this rehashing serve? Maybe Sherman is still bothered by it, or maybe on the day he went after Pete and Bev stepped in, he was just feeling a little off or physically hurt, he looked up and saw us passing from the 1, remembered the frustration of that defeat in 49 and felt the whim to vent. Perhaps he got that out of his system and he's good with it now. He's an emotional player who thrives when he's on the edge, so I can live with a little of his personality, as long as it stays tied to Pete's philosophy of protecting the team.

But I haven't heard any other mention of the ending of 49 from our team. This was the premise of this thread, wasn't it? The play itself is out of the news cycle, folks. It has been for 2 years. It's only relived on fan-based sites such as this where even if I'm in the minority with my opinion, I don't care. It's my opinion. And opinions on both sides of the divide change -- or even reclarify -- nothing. It's a pastime for us.

 

[Uncle Si]

The difference in that scenario, and one that has been stated repeatedly, is you are putting the ball in the hands of Marshawn Lynch and not asking two undrafted free agents to secure a Super Bowl win.

The rehashing is cathartic for many. But it's also germane to recent events. It wouldn't be a 7 page thread if you'd state your case and let others do the same without debating them at every turn.

and as for mentioning the ending of the other 49 Super Bowls... i'm assuming you are being purposefully naive

 

[Siouxhawk]

The difference in that scenario, and one that has been stated repeatedly, is you are putting the ball in the hands of Marshawn Lynch and not asking two undrafted free agents to secure a Super Bowl win.

The rehashing is cathartic for many. But it's also germane to recent events. It wouldn't be a 7 page thread if you'd state your case and let others do the same without debating them at every turn.

Why now do you spin the undrafted free agent angle as being a weakness. Those types of players have been our strongest assets.

SB No. 49.

People calling me out by quoting me brings me back into the picture. The mod who got involved late did exactly this. And you bring up a good idea, Si -- how about a post limit per thread? I'd be all in favor of that. It would certainly limit the amount of trolling that goes on or at least the redundancy from at least 3 on here.

 

[Uncle Si]

The difference in that scenario, and one that has been stated repeatedly, is you are putting the ball in the hands of Marshawn Lynch and not asking two undrafted free agents to secure a Super Bowl win.

The rehashing is cathartic for many. But it's also germane to recent events. It wouldn't be a 7 page thread if you'd state your case and let others do the same without debating them at every turn.

Why now do you spin the undrafted free agent angle as being a weakness. Those types of players have been our strongest assets.

SB No. 49.

People calling me out by quoting me brings me back into the picture. The mod who got involved late did exactly this.

drop the mod thing Sioux... noone here is replying to you as a mod.

Undrafted free agents were not the team's strongest assets. that's absurd. They have been very good fits. But Sherman, Lynch, Wilson, Thomas, Kam, Bennet, Avril, Irvin were not undrafted free agents.

And let's just say you want to add Baldwin to the conversation... fine. Throw to him. He was far better the receiver than the two used.

You spin this over and over without allowing any accountability to take place for the play. It was a blunder. Own it and move on. The Hawks haven't, which is why it's still an issue.

 

[semiahmoo]

The difference in that scenario, and one that has been stated repeatedly, is you are putting the ball in the hands of Marshawn Lynch and not asking two undrafted free agents to secure a Super Bowl win.

The rehashing is cathartic for many. But it's also germane to recent events. It wouldn't be a 7 page thread if you'd state your case and let others do the same without debating them at every turn.

Why now do you spin the undrafted free agent angle as being a weakness. Those types of players have been our strongest assets.

SB No. 49.

People calling me out by quoting me brings me back into the picture. The mod who got involved late did exactly this.

drop the mod thing Sioux... noone here is replying to you as a mod.

Undrafted free agents were not the team's strongest assets. that's absurd. They have been very good fits. But Sherman, Lynch, Wilson, Thomas, Kam, Bennet, Avril, Irvin were not undrafted free agents.

And let's just say you want to add Baldwin to the conversation... fine. Throw to him. He was far better the receiver than the two used.

You spin this over and over without allowing any accountability to take place for the play. It was a blunder. Own it and move on. The Hawks haven't, which is why it's still an issue.

Well said.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Who on the Hawks haven't moved on aside from Sherm?

My point about UDFAs and what they mean to us is that you don't pick and choose when you use them. If they're on the roster, they'd better be reliable. In fact going back to the play, I'd expect Lockette's skill set to be the most appropo in swiftly making that 6 yard dash before taking the pass from Russ. As a ST gunner, you'd also expect him to have a hard nose for contact.

 

[Uncle Si]

My point about UDFAs and what they mean to us is that you don't pick and choose when you use them.

Yes. Yes you do.

It would be so much easier for you to look at it objectively and admit the play call and execution was poor and move on.

 

[semiahmoo]

 

[Siouxhawk]

My point about UDFAs and what they mean to us is that you don't pick and choose when you use them.

Yes. Yes you do.

It would be so much easier for you to look at it objectively and admit the play call and execution was poor and move on.

Listen, I don't want to be a burr in your saddle, so I'll admit we didn't run it to the precision level it was drawn up and likely practiced and a very bad thing happened.

 

[nash72]

, he looked up and saw us passing from the 1, remembered the frustration of that defeat in 49 and felt the whim to vent.

Remembered? Trust me, he's never forgotten it.