Interesting stats for fans down on Geno and/or Russ

[pittpnthrs]

It might not be that far fetched. Those contracts are rocketing up in value like no one's business, along with the cap itself rising meteorically. We're already at 6 QBs over $50m APY and 10 QBs over $45m APY.

These contracts are going to start looking even more like monopoly money soon.

Your not wrong Mael. When I first saw the post about Geno and $50 million, I started to chuckle. I then remembered what Cousins and a bunch of others are playing for and I thought,,,,,,my lord, its not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[McGruff]

That was kind of my point.

 

[RiverDog]

I mean in 2020 Wilson still threw 40 TDs, over 4000 yards and won 12 games. You're not benching that guy even if you have the next Patrick Mahomes on the bench sorry.

2021 Wilson "faltered" (he still finished 5th in QB rating, throwing 25 TDs to 6 Ints for the season despite his injury) and yet we got rid of him the very next season in favour of Geno, who played better than him in relief. So yes, that's exactly what happened. Of course if you bench Wilson at that moment for Geno you don't have have the leverage to get a kings ransom in picks from the Broncos, so the FO and Carroll played it perfectly.

Peyton Manning also went 0-3 in his first 3 postseason games. Didn't win one until his SIXTH year as a starter.

And finally, the Baker Mayfield comparison - you know there's a possibility that Mayfield is actually also a good QB. After breaking the rookie TD record for a team that finished 0-16 the season before, he subsequently led the Browns to their first winning record in 14 years, best record in over 25 years, broke their league record playoff drought and won their first playoff game since 94. He also had a pretty good season last year and won a road playoff game as a wildcard. Just because he was stuck at the Browns doesn't mean he can't also win a superbowl down the line - Matt Stafford didn't win a single playoff game in 12 years at the Lions then won 4 and a superbowl his first year as a Ram.

I beg your pardon: We got "rid" of Russell "in favor" of Geno? Russell wanted out, waived his no trade clause and couldn't get out of town fast enough. Geno just happened to be the backup quarterback, and he won a QB competition with Drew Lock.

Please, tell me that you misspoke and need to re-word your thoughts.

 

[chris98251]

We don't win a SB without Wilson. He was critical to the offense and the run game.

I see your overall point but the sad reality is if you don't have an elite QB you're not going very far in the playoffs unless you have an outlier advantage on defense and even then most of the teams that make it are still top 3-5 on offense too with defense being the strength of their team. if you look at the final 8 teams year after year its almost all teams with elite QB play and seems to have trended even further in that direction the past 10 years or so.

I think Seattle is doing the best with the hand they got dealt. They haven't been in a position to upgrade from Geno so stick with him and they brought in a guy who some scouts said was as good as any QB in this draft. That's probably not true but I think its a smart move for the position.

So I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't fault fans for wanting an elite guy again because having Wilson for 10 years made life a lot easier and getting an elite guy now would increase our odds dramatically moving forward. It's just really hard to get in position to draft one so here's to hoping Grubb can turn Geno into a guy who can play at that level like Detroit did with Goff, Purdy in San Fran etc.

Wilson was not elite, he was a Niche QB that was figured out, but helped bring us a Super Bowl with a great supporting cast.

I think of him as Cordell Stewart that could actually pass well. It just took a while for someone else to give that kind of QB a chance again and it was us, Wilson was just way more accurate and had a lot better touch and escape ability.

Lamar Jackson is a better Russell Wilson and a bit taller

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Geno isn't in the same stratosphere as Russ for most of his career. People still beating the same drum. Denial.....not just a river in Egypt.
The gift that keeps on giving. In July of 2024.

 

[Ozzy]

Your not wrong Mael. When I first saw the post about Geno and $50 million, I started to chuckle. I then remembered what Cousins and a bunch of others are playing for and I thought,,,,,,my lord, its not out of the realm of possibility.

Cousins has much more success than Geno though for a much longer period of time. Maybe some of the other contracts though are close and I just don't remember them? I'd be shocked if anyone in their mid 30's without a ton of previous success are getting that much money though? I could very well be wrong though I fully admit.

 

[Ozzy]

Wilson was not elite, he was a Niche QB that was figured out, but helped bring us a Super Bowl with a great supporting cast.

I think of him as Cordell Stewart that could actually pass well. It just took a while for someone else to give that kind of QB a chance again and it was us, Wilson was just way more accurate and had a lot better touch and escape ability.

Lamar Jackson is a better Russell Wilson and a bit taller

Russ was near the top of every statistical category for any QB in history for their first decade in the league. He was absolutely elite. Just because he didn't fit the traditional mold doesn't mean he was elite. I dont think he was figured out, he just got old and his game relied a lot of his playmaking ability and he still put up decent numbers, even last year his numbers were very similar to Geno and better in a lot of categories.

For a long stretch of his career he was top 3 in passer rating in NFL history. I know not everyone loves that stat but when you look at the list its a pretty good indicator of who's a great QB and being #2 all time to Aaron Rodgers after 10 years is a pretty small group.

 

[Ozzy]

Geno isn't in the same stratosphere as Russ for most of his career. People still beating the same drum. Denial.....not just a river in Egypt.
The gift that keeps on giving. In July of 2024.

It's wild to me how people will talk themselves into thinking Russ was some average dude for a decade now because they hate him. It's baffling to me. I have zero problems with people wanting him to fail miserably now because of how he left but the revisionist stuff claiming he was average or didn't play much of a role in the teams success is wild.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep. Been going on for 2 plus years. I thoroughly enjoy it. Entertaining reading. You'd think the guy was Dan McGwire

And I'm quite glad he's gone. Can appreciate the guy and be glad he's gone at the same time.
I'm considered a "Geno Hater" here, and that's fine, I get it. But I'm still confused at how Geno "never won a playoff game" Smith is all the sudden a potential Joe Montana.

 

[McGruff]

Cousins has much more success than Geno though for a much longer period of time. Maybe some of the other contracts though are close and I just don't remember them? I'd be shocked if anyone in their mid 30's without a ton of previous success are getting that much money though? I could very well be wrong though I fully admit.

If Geno it’s together two more seasons in the ballpark of the last two? And the market continues to escalate?

 

[RiverDog]

Russ was near the top of every statistical category for any QB in history for their first decade in the league. He was absolutely elite. Just because he didn't fit the traditional mold doesn't mean he was elite. I dont think he was figured out, he just got old and his game relied a lot of his playmaking ability and he still put up decent numbers, even last year his numbers were very similar to Geno and better in a lot of categories.

For a long stretch of his career he was top 3 in passer rating in NFL history. I know not everyone loves that stat but when you look at the list its a pretty good indicator of who's a great QB and being #2 all time to Aaron Rodgers after 10 years is a pretty small group.

So if Russell was 'elite,' why didn't he get so much as one single vote in any year for league MVP? Hell, even Derek Carr has received a vote. "Near" the top doesn't cut it when you're talking elite. And please, don't say regional bias as they draw the panel from all 4 corners of the country.

Russell was a franchise quarterback, the best QB we've had in franchise history and a huge piece of our only Lombardi trophy. But he was not 'elite' the way I understand the term. Brady, Brees, and Rodgers could all be put in that category, but not Russell.

 

[McGruff]

Russ was near the top of every statistical category for any QB in history for their first decade in the league. He was absolutely elite. Just because he didn't fit the traditional mold doesn't mean he was elite. I dont think he was figured out, he just got old and his game relied a lot of his playmaking ability and he still put up decent numbers, even last year his numbers were very similar to Geno and better in a lot of categories.

For a long stretch of his career he was top 3 in passer rating in NFL history. I know not everyone loves that stat but when you look at the list its a pretty good indicator of who's a great QB and being #2 all time to Aaron Rodgers after 10 years is a pretty small group.

Russ absolutely got figured out. See the Giants game in 2020 and every game since. Throw cover two at him, take away the boundary throws, and mush rush.

 

[AgentDib]

QB salaries are another complication to this discussion. I'm down on Howell compared to most here, but I'd much rather the team had his contract than Jalen Hurts's contract. Similarly, while Jackson is a top 5 QB I'd have to think before taking him on his current deal.

But I'm still confused at how Geno "never won a playoff game" Smith is all the sudden a potential Joe Montana.

That's unusually extreme hyperbole even for this message board.

It is reasonable to suggest Geno is somewhere in the 2nd quartile of starting QBs based on his play over the last two seasons. Of course you can disagree with that, but here's a thought experiment for you to consider.

Make a list of the current NFL QBs who are you are sure will outperform Geno in week 1. If your list has at least 10 names on it, and everybody on your list plays at least as well as Geno does in week 1, then you win. If you don't have 10 names, or somebody on your list is clearly outplayed by Geno in week 1, then you agree it's plausible that Geno is a top 10 QB in the short term.

 

[McGruff]

Yep. Been going on for 2 plus years. I thoroughly enjoy it. Entertaining reading. You'd think the guy was Dan McGwire

And I'm quite glad he's gone. Can appreciate the guy and be glad he's gone at the same time.
I'm considered a "Geno Hater" here, and that's fine, I get it. But I'm still confused at how Geno "never won a playoff game" Smith is all the sudden a potential Joe Montana.

Let’s take a vote.

How many people here think Russ Wilson is no better than Dan McGuire?

How many people here think Geno is the next Joe Montana?

 

[Ozzy]

Russ absolutely got figured out. See the Giants game in 2020 and every game since. Throw cover two at him, take away the boundary throws, and mush rush.

Most QB's struggle with cover 2. It's why you need a supporting cast to help keep them honest. Did no one use cover 2 for the first 9 years in the league against him?

 

[McGruff]

Not to the extent that they did after the Giants game.

 

[McGruff]

Beating cover two is easy. Run the ball. Don’t double down on “let Russ cook”

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Let’s take a vote.

How many people here think Russ Wilson is no better than Dan McGuire?

How many people here think Geno is the next Joe Montana?

And how many people here understand Sarcasm?

Geezus man. Have a coke and a smile. You Geno lovers are so sensitive. It's hilarious. But thanks for playing.

 

[McGruff]

Oh I get that it is hyperbole.

The problem is that one side of the argument tends to take an extreme position . . . Geno is nothing more than a quality backup. That kind of statement fits the hyperbole. But the opposite side is saying “Geno Smith is above average” and somehow that gets translated into “elite”

TBF, the same thing happens the opposite direction with Russ. Haters will say he was just the beneficiary of an elite cast. That’s simply not true.

I can’t stand what Russell Wilson became. An insufferable blowhard who was only about himself both on and off the field, and who couldn’t adjust his game to what defenses were throwing at him late in his career.

But that doesn’t negate the fact that for 7-8 years he was an NFL elite quarterback.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough. I'm just having fun. I don't dislike Geno. I just think he's an average QB, that's all.
Nice to see someone who can at least admit, even if it hurts, that Russ was absolutely elite for close to a decade. But yeah, he changed. We got his best years.
Then to follow it up with a massive robbery of the Donkeys for all those draft picks and players. Turned out nice.