Interesting stats for fans down on Geno and/or Russ

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Palmegranite

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Seahawks won 6 of their last 7 games in 2020, including winning their last 4 straight, and Wilson wasn't on the bench, best of my recollection.

No wheels falling off, period

Your football "knowledge" is hindered by your jilted lover syndrome.
Sorry, you can't credibly twist 12-4 to wheels falling off. No matter how many paragraphs you type.

He just didn't win the right way in your mind I suppose.
 

McGruff

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Seahawks won 6 of their last 7 games in 2020, including winning their last 4 straight, and Wilson wasn't on the bench, best of my recollection.

No wheels falling off, period

Your football "knowledge" is hindered by your jilted lover syndrome.
Sorry, you can't credibly twist 12-4 to wheels falling off. No matter how many paragraphs you type.

He just didn't win the right way in your mind I suppose.
LOL. The TEAM wins and losses. And players play bad during wins, and good during losses. Wilson played bad during that stretch. Again, look it up, read the articles. Watch the games.

As far as jilted lover, that ain’t me.
 

morgulon1

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Not sure I can agree with that. I see Geno lumped in with a bunch of QB's of the same or near talent level. Thats being black and white though. There's a few really good QB's in the league and then there's a ton of fairly average QB's (where Geno lands), and a group of pretty bad QB's. You also have to take into consideration the weapons these QB's have on offense to throw to. Geno is pretty lucky in that aspect.

I just feel that there's a lot of QB's in the league that could replicate what Geno does if they were on Seattles roster. Just my opinion though.
Good post.

No problem, everyone has their own thoughts on these aspects of the team. You made your point without leaving a trail of blood. A skill.

Regarding Mr Geno Smith, I would like to see him with a top ten team around him. I do agree in that there are only a few top notch (too short) QBs and then a pool of decent to average Joe's.
 

McGruff

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Good post.

No problem, everyone has their own thoughts on these aspects of the team. You made your point without leaving a trail of blood. A skill.

Regarding Mr Geno Smith, I would like to see him with a top ten team around him. I do agree in that there are only a few top notch (too short) QBs and then a pool of decent to average Joe's.
The irony is I think we have had a top ten team.

We just had bottom 5 coaching (coordinators specifically).
 

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Stats are a tool, I actually watched the games, how many three and outs has he had in his career, find that out against other QB's and the shiny becomes more tarnished and rusted, kinda of like 49ers trophies.
You don’t win that many games have that much success and not be elite. A lot of QB’s have three and outs. I watched all the games too and he was a flat out stud. So I’ll agree to disagree.
 

keasley45

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You don’t win that many games have that much success and not be elite. A lot of QB’s have three and outs. I watched all the games too and he was a flat out stud. So I’ll agree to disagree.

Great Qbs dont have as many 3 and outs as Russ has had, nor do they perform as badly as Russ has passing on 3rd down. Epsecially not great qbs.

I dont like to live on opinion, so a few years ago i pulled down several years worth of stats on Russ's 3rd down performance.


And these numbers isolate QB performance on known passing downs. They dont take into account failed runs.

He was THE ONLY Qb in the league who was top 10 (sometimes top 5) in metrics like comp percentage, tds v ints, rating, etc who ranked so poorly on the money down. No other very good, to great QB was as bad as he was. Thats not opinion. Certainly none of the players that he Would often get thrown into the convo as being 'as good as' were ever consistently as average to below average as Russ. And in 2021, when he was trying to cook before he got hammer finger or whatever it was, his numbers looked great, but he was 30th in passing conversions on 3rd down and the offense was 32nd in terms of average drive duration and number of plays per drive. All of THAT while putting up top 10 stats in rating, explosive passes, etc.

So the facts dont support that you cant suck on 3rd down, run an offense that cant stay on the field and be a god in other areas... including highlight heel making Tds.

There is literally no player in league history who embodies that fact more than Russell C Wilson.
 
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Palmegranite

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I'll say this though. If Geno helms the team to 12 wins this year, I certainly won't discount his contribution. Period.
 

knownone

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Great Qbs dont have as many 3 and outs as Russ has had, nor do they perform as badly as Russ has passing on 3rd down. Epsecially not great qbs.

I dont like to live on opinion, so a few years ago i pulled down several years worth of stats on Russ's 3rd down performance.


And these numbers isolate QB performance on known passing downs. They dont take into account failed runs.

He was THE ONLY Qb in the league who was top 10 (sometimes top 5) in metrics like comp percentage, tds v ints, rating, etc who ranked so poorly on the money down. No other very good, to great QB was as bad as he was. Thats not opinion. Certainly none of the players that he Would often get thrown into the convo as being 'as good as' were ever consistently as average to below average as Russ. And in 2021, when he was trying to cook before he got hammer finger or whatever it was, his numbers looked great, but he was 30th in passing conversions on 3rd down and the offense was 32nd in terms of average drive duration and number of plays per drive. All of THAT while putting up top 10 stats in rating, explosive passes, etc.

So the facts dont support that you cant suck on 3rd down, run an offense that cant stay on the field and be a god in other areas... including highlight heel making Tds.

There is literally no player in league history who embodies that fact more than Russell C Wilson.
He was also near the top of the league in passes behind the line of scrimmage, which is why his efficiency numbers look great despite his poor money down throws. We saw this to a comical degree in Denver this season, where he had great counting stats while being one of the worst QBs in the league in down-to-down efficiency. Remember, this is stuff Wilson's camp unironically blamed on coaching.

 

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Great Qbs dont have as many 3 and outs as Russ has had, nor do they perform as badly as Russ has passing on 3rd down. Epsecially not great qbs.

I dont like to live on opinion, so a few years ago i pulled down several years worth of stats on Russ's 3rd down performance.


And these numbers isolate QB performance on known passing downs. They dont take into account failed runs.

He was THE ONLY Qb in the league who was top 10 (sometimes top 5) in metrics like comp percentage, tds v ints, rating, etc who ranked so poorly on the money down. No other very good, to great QB was as bad as he was. Thats not opinion. Certainly none of the players that he Would often get thrown into the convo as being 'as good as' were ever consistently as average to below average as Russ. And in 2021, when he was trying to cook before he got hammer finger or whatever it was, his numbers looked great, but he was 30th in passing conversions on 3rd down and the offense was 32nd in terms of average drive duration and number of plays per drive. All of THAT while putting up top 10 stats in rating, explosive passes, etc.

So the facts dont support that you cant suck on 3rd down, run an offense that cant stay on the field and be a god in other areas... including highlight heel making Tds.

There is literally no player in league history who embodies that fact more than Russell C Wilson. an elite and all time great, t

So who do you think has been better on third downs in their careers?

Player A 85 rating, 29 tds/15 ints
Player B 93 rating, 88 tds/34 ints

One is Wilson and one is Geno.

Players with worst passer ratings on third down than Russ? Manning, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Brady slightly better 94%, Geno and just about everyone not named Mahomes or Rodgers.



So again you’re vastly overstating how bad Wilson is on third downs.
 
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keasley45

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The thing that is often consistent in fan assessment of QB play is the false asdociation between team record and QB play.

Russ gets a pass and is even elevated for seasons where his stats look good and we win a lot, because folks disregard his poor play in key areas like 3rd down, as if playing poorly on that down and failing to sustain drives because the qb cant consistently move the chains tbrough the air when he needs to doesnt eventually end up losing us games when it counts.

But we were 12-4... but we won the SB, etc

And Stats bare that out now over many years.

And on the flip, you have a guy like Geno, who despite the team overall not being great on 3rd down, is near league best in converting on 3rd and between 7 and 10 through the air, when defenses are actually expecting him to pass, and he gets the boot because the team went 9 and 8.
 

hawkfan68

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NFL All time pass TDs Leaders list -


Note the player who is at #13 ahead of HOF's Elway, Montana, Moon, and Unitas. Most on that list (if not all) are QBs who would fall into the "elite" category.
 
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Kamcussionator

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Sacks need to be figured into QB stats. The fact that Russ would rather take a sack and kill a drive than throw a ball away and hurt his precious comp % is one of the reasons I could not stand watching him during the later half of his tenure here.
 

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The thing that is often consistent in fan assessment of QB play is the false asdociation between team record and QB play.

Russ gets a pass and is even elevated for seasons where his stats look good and we win a lot, because folks disregard his poor play in key areas like 3rd down, as if playing poorly on that down and failing to sustain drives because the qb cant consistently move the chains tbrough the air when he needs to doesnt eventually end up losing us games when it counts.

But we were 12-4... but we won the SB, etc

And Stats bare that out now over many years.

And on the flip, you have a guy like Geno, who despite the team overall not being great on 3rd down, is near league best in converting on 3rd and between 7 and 10 through the air, when defenses are actually expecting him to pass, and he gets the boot because the team went 9 and 8.
Geno is worse overall on third downs than Russ is. I just don’t get this obsession with trying to convince everyone that Russ is terrible when it’s obvious he was really, really good overall for us for a decade. You have to dig in to some obscure hyper isolated stats to keep trying to prove he was bad. At some point is it possible you’re a little biased by your dislike of the guy?
 

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NFL All time pass TDs Leaders list -


Note the player who is at #13 ahead of HOF's Elway, Montana, Moon, and Unitas. Most on that list (if not all) are QBs who would fall into the "elite" category.
Exactly. Again I understand people hating Russ for what happened at the end but now trying to convince everyone he was never really good and it was all smoke and mirrors is odd.
 

morgulon1

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The irony is I think we have had a top ten team.

We just had bottom 5 coaching (coordinators specifically).
You did? I thought they were average with a few promising players on both sides of the ball. They needed to make a new offensive line. They did that. The defensive line could be a strength .
 

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NFL All time pass TDs Leaders list -


Note the player who is at #13 ahead of HOF's Elway, Montana, Moon, and Unitas. Most on that list (if not all) are QBs who would fall into the "elite" category.
note who is ahead of him. Mostly modern era QBs. which points out he was really good, just not quite as good as most of his peers.

I loved RW and in his prime I thought he was the best playmaker I have ever seen.
 

Ozzy

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note who is ahead of him. Mostly modern era QBs. which points out he was really good, just not quite as good as most of his peers.

I loved RW and in his prime I thought he was the best playmaker I have ever seen.
He was easily one of the best play makers ever. I miss prime Russ.
 

WarHawks

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Yeah which one do you want to replicate, Dan McGwire or Ric Mirer?
Neither. If you don't have an elite qb the chances of winning a sb are next to nil. We'll waste another 5 years with qb retreads and wonder why we never get anywhere. People here seem to love qb purgatory. Wash, rinse, repeat.
 
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