I'm so tired of bevell....

[Zebulon Dak]

Hahaha if we'd have run a slant and not gotten the 1st the board would have erupted with WE HAVE MARSHAWN LYNCH RUN THE DAMN BALL!!!! threads. It would have been worse than it is now.

 

[pehawk]

I know Bevell won us a Super Bowl but man it feels like he is clueless at times.

Here is a quote that perfectly captures my feelings on watching his playcalling:http://www.footballoutsiders.com/audibles/2014/audibles-line-week-11

"Vince Verhei: OK, now I'm pissed. After the failed fourth-and-goal play, Seahawks force their first punt. They then have a fourth-and-1 in Kansas City territory. Now, I'm not sure Seattle has thrown a deep pass all game, so Kansas City crowds everyone up on the line, effectively running an 8-0-3 formation. There are corners covering the receivers, but there are no real safeties or linebackers, just everyone pressed up to the line. Also, Max Unger is out again. So what do they call? Read option? Bootleg keeper? Quick slant? Nope. Straight handoff to Lynch up the gut. Nobody is fooled, nobody is beaten, the play loses yardage. That play probably fails 99 times out of 100. That's a much worse call than the goal-line fade route."

Is that fair? You absolutely know that if Bevell had called a slant, bootleg or deep shot in that situation and failed to convert that he would be crucified here. KC also has better edge talent than many teams we've faced, so I'm not convinced that a QB keeper or Lynch to the edge is necessarily the perfect call there either. Maybe pitch-back option with Michael or Turbin could've worked better -- but we've already shown that look multiple times on 4th down.

Personally, I actually do like seeing passes on 4th-and-short. However, I dread them in ways because even if you convert 60-70% (which is great), your fanbase will kill you for not running Lynch (who, quite honestly, has never been elite in short yardage situations) on the 30-40% you fail.

Anyway, yadda yadda, he's okay, he sucks, etc.. I thought overall Bevell got the offense moving. I do wish we were better in the redzone, but honestly, with different calls I'm not sure we get better results. I can't ignore that we have terrible redzone talent and KC is league-best at goal line run defense. 2/5 on RZ opportunities is probably what the stats would extrapolate to if we ran simulations with those elements factored in.

I think the quote speaks more to the personnel and formation than the playcall. Lets be fair here.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

My real point is not so much that Bevell is great or that he doesn't make bad calls sometimes, just more that most people who complain about his play calling pretty much have no idea wtf they're talking about.

FWIW this week we have had some actual, really good discussion about it, despite the typical white noise (yes racist).

 

[pehawk]

My real point is not so much that Bevell is great or that he doesn't make bad calls sometimes, just more that most people who complain about his play calling pretty much have no idea wtf they're talking about.

FWIW this week we have had some actual, really good discussion about it, despite the typical white noise (yes racist).

Yes there has.

I do apologize if I've been snarky to anyone over it. It's not the issue its the pretext that somehow, my concerns are just reactionary or I'm ill qualified to discuss the matter. I don't care who it is in the media or blogosphere, I'll put me feel for the game up against anyone's. And others should feel free to feel the same.

Stating otherwise erodes the spirit of this place.

I also dig opposing views. Kidhawk changed my opinion, a strong opinion, on a topic this AM by his viewpoint. I DIG opposing viewpoints, its the best way to learn.

Also, I'd make out with Jeremy Bates. There, I said it.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

My real point is not so much that Bevell is great or that he doesn't make bad calls sometimes, just more that most people who complain about his play calling pretty much have no idea wtf they're talking about.

FWIW this week we have had some actual, really good discussion about it, despite the typical white noise (yes racist).

Yes there has.

I do apologize if I've been snarky to anyone over it. It's not the issue its the pretext that somehow, my concerns are just reactionary or I'm ill qualified to discuss the matter. I don't care who it is in the media or blogosphere, I'll put me feel for the game up against anyone's. And others should feel free to feel the same.

I particularly value your opinion. Scotte's too. Because I believe you guys do know wtf you're talking about.

Friends still?

 

[pehawk]

My real point is not so much that Bevell is great or that he doesn't make bad calls sometimes, just more that most people who complain about his play calling pretty much have no idea wtf they're talking about.

FWIW this week we have had some actual, really good discussion about it, despite the typical white noise (yes racist).

Yes there has.

I do apologize if I've been snarky to anyone over it. It's not the issue its the pretext that somehow, my concerns are just reactionary or I'm ill qualified to discuss the matter. I don't care who it is in the media or blogosphere, I'll put me feel for the game up against anyone's. And others should feel free to feel the same.

I particularly value your opinion. Scotte's too. Because I believe you guys do know wtf you're talking about.

Friends still?

We never we're, asshole. You produce unwhite music and like in Beaverton.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

:lol:

 

[Zebulon Dak]

Well at least we got Lemuel back. At least that's something.

 

[Ozzy]

I agree somewhat but there are some smart people on both sides of this issue. Some smart people killed Bevell for a few of the calls in the post game shows so it's not just a bunch of message board guys.

My personal take on Bevell after taking it all in this week is I think what makes Bevell so frustrating is that he can be really, really good at times. I've seen him be flat out brilliant and generally love what he does inside the 20's. I personally think he has been pedestrian in the red zone but also admit some of it is a personnel issue. Outside of Lynch/Wilson we don't have guys who are built to take advantage of the red zone. This makes his job much tougher and I think that's why it seems like he over thinks thing at times.

We have to do a better job of executing. He was killed for the fly sweep late in the S.D. game and while I'm still not a huge fan of the call, if Kearse holds his block Harvin would of had a big gain. In the KC game when Lynch got stuffed at the goal line. Sweezy got destroyed off the ball as well as Britt.

All of this rambling to say I hope we get back on track this week against AZ! :shock:

 

[marko358]

In the KC game when Lynch got stuffed at the goal line. Sweezy got destroyed off the ball as well as Britt.

Unger just went down so you knew the line could have issues run or pass blocking. Why not use the behemoth fullback to help out in a run situation? Seems like 31 other OCs would have given the circumstance.

 

[pehawk]

I agree somewhat but there are some smart people on both sides of this issue. Some smart people killed Bevell for a few of the calls in the post game shows so it's not just a bunch of message board guys.

My personal take on Bevell after taking it all in this week is I think what makes Bevell so frustrating is that he can be really, really good at times. I've seen him be flat out brilliant and generally love what he does inside the 20's. I personally think he has been pedestrian in the red zone but also admit some of it is a personnel issue. Outside of Lynch/Wilson we don't have guys who are built to take advantage of the red zone. This makes his job much tougher and I think that's why it seems like he over thinks thing at times.

We have to do a better job of executing. He was killed for the fly sweep late in the S.D. game and while I'm still not a huge fan of the call, if Kearse holds his block Harvin would of had a big gain. In the KC game when Lynch got stuffed at the goal line. Sweezy got destroyed off the ball as well as Britt.

All of this rambling to say I hope we get back on track this week against AZ! :shock:

Bevell is the 2nd best OC I've ever seen with trick plays. Sure that seems kind of a corny compliment, but its not really. He has an outstanding feel for when, how and why to use trickery. He's 2nd only to Wisenhunt in that capacity. It's a very, very unique and good thing for an OC to have that.

Of course he hasn't been able to do that at all this year because of circumstances. But, Bevell's at his absolute pinnacle when he has the space to sprinkle in a WR pass, flea flicker, RB option, etc.

(accidently PM'd this originally)

 

[Largent80]

Bevell is tired of you too.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

In the KC game when Lynch got stuffed at the goal line. Sweezy got destroyed off the ball as well as Britt.

Unger just went down so you knew the line could have issues run or pass blocking. Why not use the behemoth fullback to help out in a run situation? Seems like 31 other OCs would have given the circumstance.

The play works if Sweezy doesn't get blown off the ball, so it wasn't the formation it was the execution.

We've actually been very good at converting short downs this year, much more than in prior years where we've struggled with this down and distance.



Maybe a fullback lead helps, but then the defense has all 11 men in the box because they know 100% run, and not the possibility of a play action or rollout TE pass or something.

 

[NorCalSeahawk]

There are so many factors in being a good/great OC. I really don't think Bevell is GOD AWFUL, but I do wonder sometimes what is going on in his head. He throws at times he should be running and over thinks the smart, obvious plays at times. This team is run first, run second team, that mixes in some play action, boot legs and roll outs to maximize Russell Wilsons skill set. I just wish Bevell would acknowledge what the team is right now (a run first team) and stop trying to be something other than the obvious.

 

[Mojambo]

I'd prefer another, yes.

That being said, I'm really sick of the complaining. He's here. He's not getting fired mid-season.

I see no reason why we shouldn't just move on from it as a topic of discussion for the time being.

A more interesting topic would be, (if Bevell got fired) who would be your top (realistic) choice to replace him as offensive coordinator.

 

[Scottemojo]

I'd prefer another, yes.

That being said, I'm really sick of the complaining. He's here. He's not getting fired mid-season.

I see no reason why we shouldn't just move on from it as a topic of discussion for the time being.

A more interesting topic would be, (if Bevell got fired) who would be your top (realistic) choice to replace him as offensive coordinator.

The soon to be fired Trestman for me.

 

[pehawk]

I'd prefer another, yes.

That being said, I'm really sick of the complaining. He's here. He's not getting fired mid-season.

I see no reason why we shouldn't just move on from it as a topic of discussion for the time being.

A more interesting topic would be, (if Bevell got fired) who would be your top (realistic) choice to replace him as offensive coordinator.

Start some good threads then, man. Don't just complain from the sideline, LaGarrett.

 

[LeMec]

I am frustrated with the lack of offensive production and conversion in key situations as well. However, I don't think so much blame can be laid at the feet of Bevell. This is the guy that has been interviewed by every team looking for a new head coach for the last few years. The guy who "would" have been gone if the Seahawks hadn't made it to the Super Bowl, and teams could have interviewed him earlier this past season. This is the same offensive coordinator that called the offensive blow out in the Super Bowl, helped develop a 3rd round rookie into a NFL starter, and has given Marshawn Lynch more carries than any other RB in the last four years.

I'm not saying I haven't played couch captain myself and questioned some of the calls. However, I think more of the issues lay at the feet of the players not executing. Russell hasn't been on par the last few games. In the KC games he hit WRs in the hands and they simply didn't catch the ball (Kearse for a TD, Richardson on the last play). WRs aren't getting separation so Wilson can throw them the ball. The OL couldn't block during that game. Thats why Marshawn got stuffed and hit in the back field on the 4th and 1. Wilson was running for his life on every snap of the last drive. The players just have to get it done. That seems to be the difference this year compared to the last couple. In tight games someone usually stepped up and made a play. It doesn't seem like that is happening as much this year.

I am hoping they get it figured it. I haven't given up! They can still win it all!

 

[AgentDib]

Unger just went down so you knew the line could have issues run or pass blocking. Why not use the behemoth fullback to help out in a run situation? Seems like 31 other OCs would have given the circumstance.

I would love to see some numbers that show our minimum or average Lynch carry in 21 personnel is as good as in other packages. Without looking at the numbers it feels like our 21 stuff hasn't been impressive with Lynch in the same way that 11 or even 12 at the start of the season was.

I also think this is explainable if true. Lynch is a tough guy for a solo defender to bring down and the benefit of leading with a FB is offset by the cost of having one more guy in the middle of their defense for Lynch to run through.

 

[Scottemojo]

Unger just went down so you knew the line could have issues run or pass blocking. Why not use the behemoth fullback to help out in a run situation? Seems like 31 other OCs would have given the circumstance.

I would love to see some numbers that show our minimum or average Lynch carry in 21 personnel is as good as in other packages. Without looking at the numbers it feels like our 21 stuff hasn't been impressive with Lynch in the same way that 11 or even 12 at the start of the season was.

I also think this is explainable if true. Lynch is a tough guy for a solo defender to bring down and the benefit of leading with a FB is offset by the cost of having one more guy in the middle of their defense for Lynch to run through.

On the play in question, a FB could not have hurt, KC had 8 defenders vs our 6 blockers.
The worst part is when the ball was snapped, we had 12 seconds to change the play. Which is what should have happened. Simple math, 8 beats 6.