If you're not over the loss, don't open this one.

[McGruff]

Been watching that first play from scrimmage and now that I've had some time to process the loss, it feels a lot less like a slip was the problem and a lot more like a poorly executed defensive play by Seattle.

You can clearly see Earl slip, so the field did have something do with it.

That doesn't excuse his terrible angle, as well as KJ's. But IMO Earl is 90% culpable on that play. His entire job as free safety is to limit plays like that.

Agree Sarge. And as Hasselbeck mentioned above, not the first time for Earl.

Earl guessed wrong. \He expected Stewart to go outside the Tolbert block, not inside. And Shead looked lost playing effectively asa safety on that play.

 

[McGruff]

Avril's initial rush to the inside looks wonky too. You would think he's would have a more stout assignment on that edge.

 

[SirTed]

It was Earl and Wagner IMO.

 

[kearly]

Not that I blame Bennett, but it looks like Bennett had a chance to swing around the back and make a play on Stewart, but he hesitates. I doubt he gets the tackle, but he might have gotten a piece of Stewart and slowed him down enough to turn 60 into 16.

The key part of this play is Tolbert's block. It's a very good block, but KJ almost never gets blown back that much by a fullback. The reason Earl is out of position is because he is assuming that Wright will hold his ground against a fullback and bottle up the middle, and on any other play this season, that assumption would have been correct.

 

[Boycie]

Been watching that first play from scrimmage and now that I've had some time to process the loss, it feels a lot less like a slip was the problem and a lot more like a poorly executed defensive play by Seattle.

I don't think Kam not being on the field for this one mattered either. Looked like K.J. pulled up to fill the gap and it gave the fullback time to come off of another block and pick him up. Earl slips but it looks like he took a bad angle, Bobby got washed out, Shead took a bad angle and Bane got held in the middle (he almost had the TFL).

What say you?

From my perspective, it looks like KJ went too deep, and Earl slipped a little

 

[Popeyejones]

It's funny when I get to read how a former lineman sees this because I was surprised that you mentioned Rubin was part of the problem.

Looked like he was barely moved by the double team. Bane gets into the backfield, Rubin looked like he just didn't get any push (which I didn't really expect given the combo block).

And that, is why I ask you guys what you see

Thanks for sharing, popeye.

:th2thumbs:

Yeah, Keep your eye pinpointed on Rubin's outside should at the snap of the ball and then just keep watching that spot until Stewart crosses the LOS.

To be fair to Rubin he's getting combo blocked before the scrape off onto Wagz, but as soon as he senses two guys coming at him he needs to get his ass down and at least just hold that spot even if he can't push through it.

And heck, to be fair to ET, if Rubin holds that spot ET is actually in pretty good position to make that tackle while still keeping the play inside.

Really a bunch of individual things going wrong at once (really what makes the NFL so tough: 11 guys can play incredibly well on 59 of 60 plays but if three or four them happen to have bad plays on the same play we're talking an 80 yard gain up the middle of the defense).

 

[Popeyejones]

TeamoftheCentury --

Absolutely agreed that there's definitely some trade-off on this one, and that for a guy like ET what we're talking about on one play can lead to what I'm criticizing him for while on another play can lead to a great splash play that people celebrate him for.

Also worth saying is that as far as safety play goes I definitely lean toward to the conservative end of the spectrum, and that's definitely not true of everybody. :th2thumbs:

 

[DavidSeven]

It's really unbelievable that Sherman beats Shead and Earl to the tackle. He's coming off a block from the opposite end. Besides Bane, he's probably the only guy who did anything good on this play.

 

[hawknation2016]

It's unbelievable that Sherman beats Shead (and everyone else) to the tackle. Besides Bane, he's the only guy who did something good on this play.

And not so coincidentally, Sherman was the only one who said he came into the game wearing the right kind of cleats that could properly grip the turf.

Criticizing the players here, who were so obviously hindered during the early going of this game, is like criticizing a blind man for accidentally bumping into a wall. It must feel like 2nd Christmas for 49er fans.

 

[ivotuk]

What pisses me off is Mebane got held on multiple plays, and none called.

 

[Popeyejones]

It must feel like 2nd Christmas for 49er fans.

As if 9ers fans even had a 1st Christmas this year. :lol:

ET slips, but he's already taken himself out of the play by crossing his feet over (to get moving in the wrong direction) even before that happens.

Lookng at it again it just looks like he totally guessed wrong (probably because of how late developing Tolbert's block was) and was trying to fill the five hole (inside of Olson), which is pretty gaping, and got left with his pants down when Stewart went through the 3 hole (where Rubin was supposed to be).

IMO this is really the ONLY way to make sense of him crossing his feet like that (which he shouldn't be doing anyway) and over-pursuing into an empty gap.

The more I watch this, while I still don't like what ET does on this play, I become more understanding of at least what he's trying to do and sympathetic to the position he's in.

Good example of what TeamoftheCentury is talking about too. If ET guesses right that's a HUGE play for him, but if he guesses wrong (which he did) and a couple other people don't maintain their assignments we're talking the 80 yard run we saw.

(also worth saying is that he might not have *guessed* wrong and was simply a little over-aggressive in maintaining his gap assignment which ended up leaving things open at the third level).

 

[hawknation2016]

It must feel like 2nd Christmas for 49er fans.

As if 9ers fans even had a 1st Christmas this year. :lol:

ET slips, but he's already taken himself out of the play by crossing his feet over (to get moving in the wrong direction) even before that happens.

Lookng at it again it just looks like he totally guessed wrong (probably because of how late developing Tolbert's block was) and was trying to fill the five hole (inside of Olson), which is pretty gaping, and got left with his pants down when Stewart went through the 3 hole (where Rubin was supposed to be).

IMO this is really the ONLY way to make sense of him crossing his feet like that (which he shouldn't be doing anyway) and over-pursuing into an empty gap.

The more I watch this, while I still don't like what ET does on this play, I become more understanding of at least what he's trying to do and sympathetic to the position he's in.

Good example of what TeamoftheCentury is talking about too. If ET guesses right that's a HUGE play for him, but if he guesses wrong (which he did) and a couple other people don't maintain their assignments we're talking the 80 yard run we saw.

(also worth saying is that he might not have *guessed* wrong and was simply a little over-aggressive in maintaining his gap assignment which ended up leaving things open at the third level).

I thought you weren't a 49er fan anymore now that you don't like the coach.

 

[Laloosh]

^^ Rather than debate fandom, I'd appreciate it if you just stopped posting in the thread. At least he stuck to what the thread was about rather than the people posting in it.

 

[hawknation2016]

^^ Rather than debate fandom, I'd appreciate it if you just stopped posting in the thread. At least he stuck to what the thread was about rather than the people posting in it.

It's a genuine question. He said he wasn't a 49er fan anymore now that Chip Kelly is their coach.

Though even as former fan of our rival, I supposed he would take glee from a thread like this one.

 

[timmat]

That clip makes me really hope we resign Mebane. I hope he's after reasonable money. The guy continues to be a load. I think he's been a very unsung piece to this championship era's puzzle.

 

[Laloosh]

^^ Rather than debate fandom, I'd appreciate it if you just stopped posting in the thread. At least he stuck to what the thread was about rather than the people posting in it.

It's a genuine question. He said he wasn't a 49er fan anymore now that Chip Kelly is their coach.

Though even as former fan of our rival, I supposed he would take glee from a thread like this one.

He's more than welcome to answer it in your "Is Popeye a 49er fan and does he take glee in threads like this?", thread. Care to provide a link so we can all go back to agreeing or disagreeing about the play rather than another member's inner thoughts and feelings?

 

[hawknation2016]

I think the side angle is important here because it shows just how unstable the players were. Rubin, for example, has been the subject of some criticism in this thread by the former-49er fan. But this side angle allows us to see that Rubin is struggling to plant his left foot, which ends up sliding backwards in the turf as he struggles to gain leverage.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Who's saying the whole thing is because of a slip? Not slipping would have limited the damage is all anyone is saying. Pete said it started by a misread from the lber spot, which looks to be the case.

 

[Laloosh]

Who's saying the whole thing is because of a slip? Not slipping would have limited the damage is all anyone is saying. Pete said it started by a misread from the lber spot, which looks to be the case.

Me. I did.

I thought it was 100% turf because I didn't bother to re-watch it until now. I also never said (in my OP) that a slip didn't contribute.

 

[Popeyejones]

I think the side angle is important here because it shows just how unstable the players were. Rubin, for example, has been the subject of some criticism in this thread by the former-49er fan. But this side angle allows us to see that Rubin is struggling to plant his left foot, which ends up sliding backwards in the turf as he struggles to gain leverage.

Thanks for posting the link from the other angle.

I recognize I'm poking the bear here, but Rubin's problem is he gets stood straight up at the snap before he's even moved his feet. He's already lost by the time he's getting turned around and trying to get his balance.

What this angle does show more clearly is ET's slip, which happens when he crosses his feet while trying to fill the 5 hole.

McGruff said it before I did (props to McGruff; sorry man, didn't see your post the first time I wrote the same thing) but his problem on that play is mostly that he guessed wrong (or more favorably to him, was a little too aggressive in filling his assignment and didn't break off from it because Rubin got blown off at the snap).

From this angle too it looks like what happened with Wagner is that he was cheating on Tolbert's movement a little bit.

It's an interesting play design, as the they've got Tolbert heading to 4 hole like Stewart will be following him, and then he pulls around behind the guard to the other side (why his block developed so late) , basically like a pulling tackle which allows the tackle to hit his reach block and seal up the backside.

I didn't watch the Panthers enough (or closely enough) this year to know if they're running this play a lot (maybe they are), but from Seattles reaction it does kinda look like the Panthers might have sprung a wrinkle on them.