If Marqise Lee fell to 32

[Chapow]

Do you draft him even though he's 6 feet tall?

I would LOVE to have a guy like Lee .. of course being a USC homer might cloud my judgment Supposedly this guy is falling down draft boards now (Rang's latest mock has us taking Lee), some have him even dipping into the second round.

What say you?

Hell Yes.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Do you draft him even though he's 6 feet tall?

I would LOVE to have a guy like Lee .. of course being a USC homer might cloud my judgment Supposedly this guy is falling down draft boards now (Rang's latest mock has us taking Lee), some have him even dipping into the second round.

What say you?

If we go with a WR at #32, assuming that Watkins and Evans are both off the board, I'd rather we take Kelvin Benjamin than Lee. We needs some height at that position to help our red zone efficiency, which at times was a real problem. Benjamin would at the very least create some matchup problems. But that all depends on who else at a couple of other positions are available at #32.

There's two or three positions where I'd like to see us be opportunistic and take which ever one happens to fall. If there's a run on quarterbacks, one of those top 3 OT's could drop to the point where we might be able to snag one of them by trading up a couple of spots.

Thankfully you are not our GM. It would be incredibly frustrating if they passed on Lee to take Benjamin, although I highly doubt they would do so.

At least he provided reasoning.

How about you give some reasons why Lee is better than Benjamin. Or even better, how about you tell us why Lee will be the best receiver in this class.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Do you draft him even though he's 6 feet tall?

I would LOVE to have a guy like Lee .. of course being a USC homer might cloud my judgment Supposedly this guy is falling down draft boards now (Rang's latest mock has us taking Lee), some have him even dipping into the second round.

What say you?

If we go with a WR at #32, assuming that Watkins and Evans are both off the board, I'd rather we take Kelvin Benjamin than Lee. We needs some height at that position to help our red zone efficiency, which at times was a real problem. Benjamin would at the very least create some matchup problems. But that all depends on who else at a couple of other positions are available at #32.

There's two or three positions where I'd like to see us be opportunistic and take which ever one happens to fall. If there's a run on quarterbacks, one of those top 3 OT's could drop to the point where we might be able to snag one of them by trading up a couple of spots.

Thankfully you are not our GM. It would be incredibly frustrating if they passed on Lee to take Benjamin, although I highly doubt they would do so.

At least he provided reasoning.

How about you give some reasons why Lee is better than Benjamin. Or even better, how about you tell us why Lee will be the best receiver in this class.

The tape, work ethic, route running, hands, feel for the game. He reminds me a lot of Reggie Wayne. There are plenty of WRs in this class that will have great careers. My comments are more of a compliment to Lee than a knock on others.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Thankfully you are not our GM. It would be incredibly frustrating if they passed on Lee to take Benjamin, although I highly doubt they would do so.

At least he provided reasoning.

How about you give some reasons why Lee is better than Benjamin. Or even better, how about you tell us why Lee will be the best receiver in this class.

The tape, work ethic, route running, hands, feel for the game. He reminds me a lot of Reggie Wayne. There are plenty of WRs in this class that will have great careers. My comments are more of a compliment to Lee than a knock on others.

I'm not going to argue against "tape, work ethic, and feel for the game" cause it's so generic of an answer it's almost impossible to argue. That said, if you think Lee has better tape than Watkins or Evans, I'd say you never watched them play or just ignored Lee's 2013 season.

I won't disagree with route running. It's one skill of Lee's I think he's among the best in this class, but his hands? No one watching him play this year can seriously say his hands are among his best qualities and its one of the main things holding him back from being in the same tier as Watkins and Evans.

According to secondroundstats.com here's the list of the top receivers' drop rate:
J. Landry: 2.5%
M. Evans: 4.29%
S. Watkins: 4.49%
B. Cooks: 4.69%
A. Robinson: 5.43%
O. Beckham: 6.45%
J. Matthews: 7.69%
J. Saunders: 7.94%
P. Richardson: 8.89%
K. Benjamin: 9.68%
D. Moncrief: 9.68%
L. Washington: 12.07%
M. Lee: 12.31%
M. Bryant: 12.5%

He didn't have these bad of drops or body catching issues in 2012, but it's there in 2013. If he fixes these problems, he'll be a hell of a player, but if it continues into the pros, he'll struggle to be anywhere close to top of his class.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Thankfully you are not our GM. It would be incredibly frustrating if they passed on Lee to take Benjamin, although I highly doubt they would do so.

At least he provided reasoning.

How about you give some reasons why Lee is better than Benjamin. Or even better, how about you tell us why Lee will be the best receiver in this class.

The tape, work ethic, route running, hands, feel for the game. He reminds me a lot of Reggie Wayne. There are plenty of WRs in this class that will have great careers. My comments are more of a compliment to Lee than a knock on others.

I'm not going to argue against "tape, work ethic, and feel for the game" cause it's so generic of an answer it's almost impossible to argue. That said, if you think Lee has better tape than Watkins or Evans, I'd say you never watched them play or just ignored Lee's 2013 season.

I won't disagree with route running. It's one skill of Lee's I think he's among the best in this class, but his hands? No one watching him play this year can seriously say his hands are among his best qualities and its one of the main things holding him back from being in the same tier as Watkins and Evans.

According to secondroundstats.com here's the list of the top receivers' drop rate:
J. Landry: 2.5%
M. Evans: 4.29%
S. Watkins: 4.49%
B. Cooks: 4.69%
A. Robinson: 5.43%
O. Beckham: 6.45%
J. Matthews: 7.69%
J. Saunders: 7.94%
P. Richardson: 8.89%
K. Benjamin: 9.68%
D. Moncrief: 9.68%
L. Washington: 12.07%
M. Lee: 12.31%
M. Bryant: 12.5%

He didn't have these bad of drops or body catching issues in 2012, but it's there in 2013. If he fixes these problems, he'll be a hell of a player, but if it continues into the pros, he'll struggle to be anywhere close to top of his class.

He was injured last year. Look back at 2012...

 

[Throwdown]

Do you draft him even though he's 6 feet tall?

I would LOVE to have a guy like Lee .. of course being a USC homer might cloud my judgment Supposedly this guy is falling down draft boards now (Rang's latest mock has us taking Lee), some have him even dipping into the second round.

What say you?

If we go with a WR at #32, assuming that Watkins and Evans are both off the board, I'd rather we take Kelvin Benjamin than Lee. We needs some height at that position to help our red zone efficiency, which at times was a real problem. Benjamin would at the very least create some matchup problems. But that all depends on who else at a couple of other positions are available at #32.

There's two or three positions where I'd like to see us be opportunistic and take which ever one happens to fall. If there's a run on quarterbacks, one of those top 3 OT's could drop to the point where we might be able to snag one of them by trading up a couple of spots.

I dunno about you, bro, but I had enough of drops back in 2004, Kelvin Benjamin might drop the hat and jersey at his introduction press conference here.

 

[hawknation2014]

Do you draft him even though he's 6 feet tall?

I would LOVE to have a guy like Lee .. of course being a USC homer might cloud my judgment Supposedly this guy is falling down draft boards now (Rang's latest mock has us taking Lee), some have him even dipping into the second round.

What say you?

If we go with a WR at #32, assuming that Watkins and Evans are both off the board, I'd rather we take Kelvin Benjamin than Lee. We needs some height at that position to help our red zone efficiency, which at times was a real problem. Benjamin would at the very least create some matchup problems. But that all depends on who else at a couple of other positions are available at #32.

There's two or three positions where I'd like to see us be opportunistic and take which ever one happens to fall. If there's a run on quarterbacks, one of those top 3 OT's could drop to the point where we might be able to snag one of them by trading up a couple of spots.

I dunno about you, bro, but I had enough of drops back in 2004, Kelvin Benjamin might drop the hat and jersey at his introduction press conference here.

Yeah, Benjamin has poor work ethic and drops about 1/10 passes thrown his way.

Our Fifth Round TE Luke Willson is also much faster and provides a bigger target than Benjamin:

Willson's 40 time: 4.51
Benjamin's 40 time: 4.61

Willson's 10-yard split: 1.61
Benjamin's 10-yard split: 1.67

Willson's short shuttle: 4.29
Benjamin's short shuttle: 4.39

Willson's 3-cone: 7.08
Benjamin's 3-cone: 7.33

Willson's vertical: 38
Benjamin's vertical: 32.5

Willson's broad jump: 10.17
Benjamin's broad jump: 9.11

Willson's bench press: 23
Benjamin's bench press: 13

 

[Recon_Hawk]

if you think Lee has better tape than Watkins or Evans, I'd say you never watched them play or just ignored Lee's 2013 season.

He was injured last year. Look back at 2012...

Yep. I figured.

Last season's drops were not all about him playing hurt. Case in point, a horrible drop against ASU before his knee injury. Skip to 2m 24s
[youtube]CoJ5eUCzDZg[/youtube]

Look, I'm not downplaying the pain he went through last season, but he injured his knee. Not his hands. It's extremely admirable what he went through, but for a receiver playing at 192lbs and mired with injuries, he's going to have to catch the ball despite playing hurt. It's part of the game. If it leads to a 12% drop rate, he's not gonna be top of his class. He just won't.

 

[hawknation2014]

Last season's drops were not all about him playing hurt. Case in point, a horrible drop against ASU before his knee injury.

Lee also played the whole season with a shoulder injury, which he sustained during fall camp. That probably accounts for the sudden increase in his drop rate in 2013, in comparison to his low drop rate in 2011 and 2012. His left knee was subsequently injured in their loss to ASU.

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2013/08/u ... ed-tonight

http://article.wn.com/view/2013/09/30/U ... ee_injury/

 

[QuahHawk]

I have faith our coaches could improve just about any WR catching skills. Whereas size and speed cannot be coached.

 

[QuahHawk]

Well there is some speed training but overall speed is not that coachable.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Last season's drops were not all about him playing hurt. Case in point, a horrible drop against ASU before his knee injury.

Lee also played the whole season with a shoulder injury, which he sustained during fall camp. That probably accounts for the sudden increase in his drop rate in 2013, in comparison to his low drop rate in 2011 and 2012. His left knee was subsequently injured in their loss to ASU.

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2013/08/u ... ed-tonight

http://article.wn.com/view/2013/09/30/U ... ee_injury/

That article doesn't say anything about his shoulder being serious or season lasting. Kiffen referred to it as a "small injury."

Based on the information I could find (not saying I'm 100% right), Lee has said throughout the year his shoulder was fine to play, which goes back to what I said above. He's going to have to play through injuries in this league. If it causes drops, there should be questions how he'll perform against tougher competition in 16-20 game seasons.


"USC wide receiver Marqise Lee was banned from speaking to the media since he bruised his shoulder, but the junior wanted to talk Monday and made up for lost time with opinions on a lot of topics.

Lee said his shoulder was fine: ``I’m solid, 100 percent back. (USC coach Lane ) Kiffin wanted me to wear the yellow (non-contact) jersey in practice, not me.”

The Biletnikoff Award winner admitted feeling a brief scare when he landed hard on his shoulder catching a deep pass during practice.

``Yeah, I was scared for a moment but I feel good now,’’ Lee said and he raised his right arm in the air to prove he regained his flexibility.
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/2013081 ... awaii-game


I'm not arguing against Lee being a great player at the next level. I've got him graded as a first round prospect behind, what I feel, are some outstanding receivers with big-time potential. Now, don't get me wrong. I do think a receivers hands can be improved through practice and improved concentration, but his drops and durability (along with other issues) are still concerning to me. Enough to pass on him at #32? No. Enough to question him as the best WR prospect in this class and even top 5 receiver fit for Seattle? Yes.

 

[Smellyman]

Do you draft him even though he's 6 feet tall?

I would LOVE to have a guy like Lee .. of course being a USC homer might cloud my judgment Supposedly this guy is falling down draft boards now (Rang's latest mock has us taking Lee), some have him even dipping into the second round.

What say you?

If we go with a WR at #32, assuming that Watkins and Evans are both off the board, I'd rather we take Kelvin Benjamin than Lee. We needs some height at that position to help our red zone efficiency, which at times was a real problem. Benjamin would at the very least create some matchup problems. But that all depends on who else at a couple of other positions are available at #32.

There's two or three positions where I'd like to see us be opportunistic and take which ever one happens to fall. If there's a run on quarterbacks, one of those top 3 OT's could drop to the point where we might be able to snag one of them by trading up a couple of spots.

I dunno about you, bro, but I had enough of drops back in 2004, Kelvin Benjamin might drop the hat and jersey at his introduction press conference here.

Yeah, Benjamin has poor work ethic and drops about 1/10 passes thrown his way.

Our Fifth Round TE Luke Willson is also much faster and provides a bigger target than Benjamin:

Willson's 40 time: 4.51
Benjamin's 40 time: 4.61

Willson's 10-yard split: 1.61
Benjamin's 10-yard split: 1.67

Willson's short shuttle: 4.29
Benjamin's short shuttle: 4.39

Willson's 3-cone: 7.08
Benjamin's 3-cone: 7.33

Willson's vertical: 38
Benjamin's vertical: 32.5

Willson's broad jump: 10.17
Benjamin's broad jump: 9.11

Willson's bench press: 23
Benjamin's bench press: 13

Willson is a heckuva an athlete who really started to show those flashes later in the season.

Also, on Lee, dude is an absolute stud. shoulda come out last year. He got injured and had terrible quarterbacks throwing him the ball. And Kifin......yuck.

 

[ImTheScientist]

if you think Lee has better tape than Watkins or Evans, I'd say you never watched them play or just ignored Lee's 2013 season.

He was injured last year. Look back at 2012...

Yep. I figured.

Last season's drops were not all about him playing hurt. Case in point, a horrible drop against ASU before his knee injury. Skip to 2m 24s
[youtube]CoJ5eUCzDZg[/youtube]

Look, I'm not downplaying the pain he went through last season, but he injured his knee. Not his hands. It's extremely admirable what he went through, but for a receiver playing at 192lbs and mired with injuries, he's going to have to catch the ball despite playing hurt. It's part of the game. If it leads to a 12% drop rate, he's not gonna be top of his class. He just won't.

You really going to point to one drop as evidence to support your opinion?

Doug Baldwin had a down year two years ago playing with injuries. Ya, its part of the game....but people bounce back from injuries when healthy. Are you judging Baldwin on his down year due to injuries or do you see the rest of the tape on him and realize he was injured and it affected his play? :1:

If you want to win the internet I guess you tend to only judge on the injured year.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Also, on Lee, dude is an absolute stud. shoulda come out last year. He got injured and had terrible quarterbacks throwing him the ball. And Kifin......yuck.

Lee was a true sophomore in 2012.. he had to return in 2013 to be eligible for the draft, same as Clowney.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

if you think Lee has better tape than Watkins or Evans, I'd say you never watched them play or just ignored Lee's 2013 season.

He was injured last year. Look back at 2012...

Yep. I figured.

Last season's drops were not all about him playing hurt. Case in point, a horrible drop against ASU before his knee injury. Skip to 2m 24s
[youtube]CoJ5eUCzDZg[/youtube]

Look, I'm not downplaying the pain he went through last season, but he injured his knee. Not his hands. It's extremely admirable what he went through, but for a receiver playing at 192lbs and mired with injuries, he's going to have to catch the ball despite playing hurt. It's part of the game. If it leads to a 12% drop rate, he's not gonna be top of his class. He just won't.

You really going to point to one drop as evidence to support your opinion?

Doug Baldwin had a down year two years ago playing with injuries. Ya, its part of the game....but people bounce back from injuries when healthy. Are you judging Baldwin on his down year due to injuries or do you see the rest of the tape on him and realize he was injured and it affected his play? :1:

If you want to win the internet I guess you tend to only judge on the injured year.

You need evidence? That's funny. I never see you use any evidence or analysis in your posts. Usually it's blanket statements and slamming other posters' opinions without giving any reasons.

My point was about Lee's increase in dropped passes, not his decrease in production. The biggest reason Baldwin had a down year was not injuries, it was a difference in the amount of targets from Tjack and Russell Wilson.

Doug Baldwin:
2012: 29 receptions 49 targets 366 yards 3 TDs
2011: 51 receptions 86 targets 788 yards 4 TDs

2012 Catch Rate: 59.2%
2011 Catch Rate: 59.3%

Baldwin still caught the same percentage of balls thrown his way, despite playing hurt.

 

[General Manager]

Lee isn't particularly big he isn't all that physical I don't see a number 1 WR there. Imo Robinson is the player some of you think Lee is.

 

[Snakeeyes007]

Lee is an impressive athlete and smooth runner. However, in the highlight packages I've watched of him, his catching style makes me uncomfortable. I get tired of the Mayockisms, but he doesn't look like a 'natural catcher' on film. Far too often he lets the ball get in too close to his body, even on jump balls. I don't see him use his hands well, but rather, cradle the ball into his body far too often. It just makes me nervous when I watch him. After he has the ball, it's all gravy.

If Carroll and the gang believe they can teach him to be better catching the ball technically, I'm ok with him coming aboard if he's there. Although not as quick and fluid, I would prefer Allen Robinson if he's available. Several plays with him catching the ball at its highest point and coming down with it ala Alshon Jeffrey. Watch the highlight reels again on the two of them and I believe the difference in catching ability will really stand out...also love Robinson's YAC and size of course.

Excited for draft week whomever we pick. I have some to appreciate the odd nature our drafts take as JSPC look at the board differently than most do. :snack:

 

[Hasselbeck]

Just a question for hasselbeck: Have you watched this Matthews kid play? I mean, how the heck do you know that he won't make the team, or that there is 'much better' talent in the draft? Based on your keen eye for WR evaluation and all of the tape (college and CFL) you have watched?

Yes.. and he wasn't all that impressive. Like Scott said, he's big and slow.. doesn't separate at all from a corner.. does appear to have solid hands but the highlight reel tapes don't really show drops. The Mike Williams pre-obesity comparisons are valid. And keep in mind what our WR corps looked like the year Williams made the team and compare that with what we have now.

If he were entering the 2014 NFL Draft.. he wouldn't be in the discussion until Round 4/5 at the earliest, IMO. Hence why I said "much better talent in the draft" because well.. there is much better talent in the draft. Marqise Lee being one of several guys that fit that label.

He could very well compete and battle and possibly stick around on the practice squad.. but he wont be on the 53 man roster with the guys that figure to be ahead of him.

 

[Smellyman]

Also, on Lee, dude is an absolute stud. shoulda come out last year. He got injured and had terrible quarterbacks throwing him the ball. And Kifin......yuck.

Lee was a true sophomore in 2012.. he had to return in 2013 to be eligible for the draft, same as Clowney.

doh. should've known that