How to resurrect Wilson's career?

[keasley45]

The Jets and Marc Wilson/Mike White is a bad analogy. First of all, the Jets are still very much in the hunt for the playoffs if not the division championship. The Broncos season is lost. Secondly, they didn't trade a boat load of picks and sign him to a long term, 1/4-billion-dollar contract, so benching him isn't nearly as difficult as it would be to bench a player like Russell.

You can say what you want about Russell, but he's as competitive of a player as I've ever seen. I can remember what his/our defense, who'd just got through accusing Russell for not being "black enough", said after Cam Newton wouldn't fall on a loose ball in the Super Bowl for fear of hurting himself, saying that their QB would have crawled through the hubs of hell to get that ball back.

Knowing that about Russell, how competitive he is, it's my guess that benching him wouldn't sit well with him at all, unless the object is to get him pissed off so that he demands a trade.

The Jets comp had nothing to do with their record and everything to do with a team who's morale was in the toilet and players were closer to mutiny than comradery over the poor play of the supposed 'franchise ' qb. They made the change and it removed the obvious flaw - poor player at the position and the refusal of the staff to do anything about it - which improved the overall morale of the team.

The difference in Denver is that they don't have a M White on the bench. But they can put this seasons Bronco out of its misery and shut Russ down.

The fans have turned on him. Hackett is no doubt 'ok' with the fact that the debate around who's fault the floundering offense is has sound his way toward vindication in that Kubiak can't do anything with the savior either. It's as bad as it gets and pretending it will get better because they keep trotting him out there is just insanity. His play isnl actually getting worse. Who's calling plays next? The equipment guy?

And his failure has nothing to do with his competitive will. Russ is as will always be a gamer. He's just not a great qb in the traditional sense, and he's not gonna fix that at all over the next 5 games. It's only going to get worse, the same as it has week over week for the last month.

 

[RiverDog]

The Jets comp had nothing to do with their record and everything to do with a team who's morale was in the toilet and players were closer to mutiny than comradery over the poor play of the supposed 'franchise ' qb. They made the change and it removed the obvious flaw - poor player at the position and the refusal of the staff to do anything about it - which improved the overall morale of the team.

The difference in Denver is that they don't have a M White on the bench. But they can put this seasons Bronco out of its misery and shut Russ down.

The fans have turned on him. Hackett is no doubt 'ok' with the fact that the debate around who's fault the floundering offense is has sound his way toward vindication in that Kubiak can't do anything with the savior either. It's as bad as it gets and pretending it will get better because they keep trotting him out there is just insanity. His play isnl actually getting worse. Who's calling plays next? The equipment guy?

And his failure has nothing to do with his competitive will. Russ is as will always be a gamer. He's just not a great qb in the traditional sense, and he's not gonna fix that at all over the next 5 games. It's only going to get worse, the same as it has week over week for the last month.

IMO the Jets' playoff status was very much a factor in their benching of Zach Wilson along with the morale problem that you pointed out. Wilson is not their franchise QB, not by a long shot, and part of his benching was to make him aware of that reality. They also felt that their best chance of winning was to go with White.

If their record was 3-9 instead of 7-5, they may not have made the same decision. They might have decided that it was better for their QB to let him get more game experience and work out his problems on the field. Teams do that all the time when they're out of the hunt for the playoffs. Not necessarily tanking, but not putting their absolute best team on the field.

 

[toffee]

The Broncos would have a better record if their receivers dopped less balls, their star RB didn't get hurt, or their OL has less injuries. All that, however, could not excuse why Russ couldn't see open receivers, or why he couldn't throw the ball with accuracies. In the past, Russ often ignore an easier throws but he more often than not made the more difficult throws, but he hasn't been making those difficult throws in Denver.

Has Russ's body deteriorate so much that he couldn't made his trademark moon ball anymore? Could it be that Hawks WRs were trained to make all kinds of adjustments to catch those balls and the Bronco's WR weren't? I did notice our WR often made adjustments to balls that looked somewhat underthrow.

 

[BlueTalon]

Has Russ's body deteriorate so much that he couldn't made his trademark moon ball anymore? Could it be that Hawks WRs were trained to make all kinds of adjustments to catch those balls and the Bronco's WR weren't? I did notice our WR often made adjustments to balls that looked somewhat underthrow.

Part of the genius of Pete Carroll, I believe in hindsight, is that he recognized early on that plays were going to break down at a much higher rate with Wilson than with any other more conventional quarterback, so he made a plan for that. What happens after the scripted play dies? Yardball happens. And the Seahawks actually made that part of the practice routine. I think it was even a doctrine here that every pass play exists in two parts -- the scripted part, and the part that happens after the scripted part breaks down. And we practiced that. And our receivers got good at executing the second part, and became the security blanket for Russ.

Russ doesn't have that security blanket in Denver. (What he does have is a spare tire. He's older now, but he's still only 34, and that's way too young to lose that much speed and agility unless his knees have been wrecked at some point. His age isn't his issue physically, his weight is.) He never gets to the unscripted part of his plays because nobody there knew he needed that, and so nobody prepared for it, and suddenly Russ has no security blanket.

The other part of the Russ problem is his head is seriously messed up. I think keasley45 is right, his confidence is shot. He pumped himself up so full of himself that I'm not sure if he understands what is real any longer. I mean, can he distinguish between the realities he tried to create for himself and the hard reality that doesn't give a shit what you think? It's like there is a part of him that is desperately trying to distract the rest of him from the real reality by diverting to platitudes and narratives. And yet his job requires him to play NFL QB in NFL games against other NFL teams with players not nearly as screwed up in the head as he is, and the result is... what we see in Denver every week.

 

[keasley45]

Part of the genius of Pete Carroll, I believe in hindsight, is that he recognized early on that plays were going to break down at a much higher rate with Wilson than with any other more conventional quarterback, so he made a plan for that. What happens after the scripted play dies? Yardball happens. And the Seahawks actually made that part of the practice routine. I think it was even a doctrine here that every pass play exists in two parts -- the scripted part, and the part that happens after the scripted part breaks down. And we practiced that. And our receivers got good at executing the second part, and became the security blanket for Russ.

Russ doesn't have that security blanket in Denver. (What he does have is a spare tire. He's older now, but he's still only 34, and that's way too young to lose that much speed and agility unless his knees have been wrecked at some point. His age isn't his issue physically, his weight is.) He never gets to the unscripted part of his plays because nobody there knew he needed that, and so nobody prepared for it, and suddenly Russ has no security blanket.

The other part of the Russ problem is his head is seriously messed up. I think keasley45 is right, his confidence is shot. He pumped himself up so full of himself that I'm not sure if he understands what is real any longer. I mean, can he distinguish between the realities he tried to create for himself and the hard reality that doesn't give a shit what you think? It's like there is a part of him that is desperately trying to distract the rest of him from the real reality by diverting to platitudes and narratives. And yet his job requires him to play NFL QB in NFL games against other NFL teams with players not nearly as screwed up in the head as he is, and the result is... what we see in Denver every week.

Mentally shot is right. His detractors, like in the LOB days, are as much inside the lockerroom as outside. And he doesn't have Pete to welcome their departure. I also think theres a bit of an adversarial relationship between Russ and Hackett at this point and each needs the other to be the fault to save their name. Sure, both can point to injuries and the 'newness' of working together as a reason for why they're struggling, but that doesn't excuse all of it. They're both to blame, but who stays? Not saying the daggers are out yet, but the sheaths have been cracked. Actually, I'm not sure Hackett is wanting to stay in Denver (i wouldn't). He's likely trying to salvage a future somewhere else.

 

[toffee]

Mentally shot is right. His detractors, like in the LOB days, are as much inside the lockerroom as outside. And he doesn't have Pete to welcome their departure. I also think theres a bit of an adversarial relationship between Russ and Hackett at this point and each needs the other to be the fault to save their name. Sure, both can point to injuries and the 'newness' of working together as a reason for why they're struggling, but that doesn't excuse all of it. They're both to blame, but who stays? Not saying the daggers are out yet, but the sheaths have been cracked. Actually, I'm not sure Hackett is wanting to stay in Denver (i wouldn't). He's likely trying to salvage a future somewhere else.

Perhaps Wilson's mental composition is opposite of Rodger's? Afterall Rodgers did survived years of jokes and abuses under Favre and came out strong. Wilson was babied, which he needed, from day 1 under Carroll.

I think 70% of Wilson's current struggle originated from his mental or confidence issues, and there's no easy way out of it with Wilson's unique requirements.

 

[Threedee]

Is Wilson capable of executing the quick 2-4 second release with receivers that can come off the line that fast? A steady dose of WC offense can work wonders.

 

[keasley45]

Is Wilson capable of executing the quick 2-4 second release with receivers that can come off the line that fast? A steady dose of WC offense can work wonders.

If it's his first read, yes.

 

[toffee]

Is Wilson capable of executing the quick 2-4 second release with receivers that can come off the line that fast? A steady dose of WC offense can work wonders.

I would like to think there are better options for a pure WCO offense QB than an aging Wilson learning to play that style. I like to think that Carroll imprinted into his QBs on protecting the ball at all cost. These WCO with timing and anticipatory throws, for a short QB with that Carroll imprint and couldn't see middle of field, ought to be very unnatural.

 

[Hawkinaz]

I really do believe Russell is finished. The best thing that can happen for Russ, and especially the Donk's, is for Russ to eventually admit the truth and retire due to injuries.

Everybody sits down and works out an equitable buyout, somewhere under the guaranteed amount, Russ save some face and the Donks can take their ball and go home.
Walmart owners donate millions to questionable charities every year, they can bite the bullet and write off another screw up.
I'm not sure at what point Russ's humiliation overcomes his ego, but at some point he has to see the handwriting on the wall and hang it up. If he choses to remain just to claim his purse, he is going to only look worse and will end up on the bench. He can call Geno to learn the proper bench etiquette.

The biggest problem with Wilson is the dead cap hit and that is all tied to the signing bonus which doesn’t change and it’s just over $100 million

 

[toffee]

I really do believe Russell is finished. The best thing that can happen for Russ, and especially the Donk's, is for Russ to eventually admit the truth and retire due to injuries.

The biggest problem with Wilson is the dead cap hit and that is all tied to the signing bonus which doesn’t change and it’s just over $100 million

Russell Wilson leaving money on the table? REALLY? He shall sit on the bench just to collect the bounty, and work on his comic acts in preparation of post football endeavors.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Even a 102.8 passer rating against Ravens wasnt good enough according to this USA Today article. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...yler-huntley-in-consecutive-weeks/ar-AA14TUkf

 

[toffee]

Broncos forum are looking towards Schotty to OC Wilson again.

Brian Schottenheimer(And the Potential Future) - Broncos Message Boards

First thing I wanna say is can we please not turn this into another Russell Wilson hate thread. That isn't the goal, just wanted to have a more positive outlook for the team going forward. As well wanted to stand on the line of realism and not fantasy hires like Sean Payton. So clearly we...

forums.denverbroncos.com

 

[RiverDog]

Even a 102.8 passer rating against Ravens wasnt good enough according to this USA Today article. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...yler-huntley-in-consecutive-weeks/ar-AA14TUkf

In my first quantitative analysis class, our professor said the following: There's liars, damn liars, and then there's statisticians.

Russell's passer rating doesn't tell the whole story. All it does is measure passing efficiency, which is only part of quarterbacking. In my opinion, at least in this game, ESPN's quarterback rating is a little better metric to gauge how effective the quarterback was, and Russell's QBR was 65.1 while his counterpart on the Ravens, Tyler Huntley, was 74.3.

I'm not singing the praises of the QBR, just that in this case, it's a little better measure of a quarterbacks' effectiveness than the passer rating. I watched a lot of that game, and Russell most definitely was part of the Broncos problem on offense.

 

[IndyHawk]

Broncos forum are looking towards Schotty to OC Wilson again.

Brian Schottenheimer(And the Potential Future) - Broncos Message Boards

First thing I wanna say is can we please not turn this into another Russell Wilson hate thread. That isn't the goal, just wanted to have a more positive outlook for the team going forward. As well wanted to stand on the line of realism and not fantasy hires like Sean Payton. So clearly we...

forums.denverbroncos.com

Ha Ha nice to see you on there too.

 

[keasley45]

In my first quantitative analysis class, our professor said the following: There's liars, damn liars, and then there's statisticians.

Russell's passer rating doesn't tell the whole story. All it does is measure passing efficiency, which is only part of quarterbacking. In my opinion, at least in this game, ESPN's quarterback rating is a little better metric to gauge how effective the quarterback was, and Russell's QBR was 65.1 while his counterpart on the Ravens, Tyler Huntley, was 74.3.

I'm not singing the praises of the QBR, just that in this case, it's a little better measure of a quarterbacks' effectiveness than the passer rating. I watched a lot of that game, and Russell most definitely was part of the Broncos problem on offense.

Russell's rating for the horrible game he played against Washington last year... 111.

You're 100% right. Without context the numbers dont tell the story.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

What I’d do immediately is praise the shit out of the sorta deep plays (2) and his own run (1} that were successful.

 

[OrangeGravy]

He's already on his 2nd playcaller in Denver - same results. He had 3 here. Only one managed to get to him for a little while before everything he 'learned' was solved.

I bet Hackett is privately thrilled that switching to Kubiak has yielded the same results with Wilson... Makes it blatantly obvious who the problem is.

Best thing he could have done if he knew the reality of his ability (he had to, unless he's just that diluted) would have been to hang em up and tickle the media's fancy by giving baseball a go for anfew years like Jordan did.

He would have cemented his legacy and if he was any good at baseball, gone down as one of the few truly gifted dual sport athletes.

But I don't know if he was really any good at baseball.. ??

He washed out of minor league baseball, for the most part, while still in college. He had no chance there.

 

[Palmegranite]

He washed out of minor league baseball, for the most part, while still in college. He had no chance there.

He was drafted by the Colorado Rockies...ahead of Aaron Judge and Robbie Ray.

 

[BleuEyedHawk]

Wilson was drafted in 2007 by Baltimore even though by then he had decided to attend college and pursue two sports. He was then drafted in the fourth round in 2010 by the Rockies.

Here's a link to an informative article describing Wilson's baseball career. It's pretty interesting:

Thursday Rockpile: Exploring Russell Wilson’s Baseball Career

Colorado Rockies news and links for Thursday, March 10, 2022

www.purplerow.com