How to resurrect Wilson's career?

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toffee

toffee

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Denver fans despise him, Seattle fans are thankful he is gone, and the rest of the NFL is making fun of him.

I highly doubt he comes out of this unless he takes a long hard look in the mirror and drops the ego/celebrity act and goes back to his roots of being a football player/team guy… Which I HIGHLY doubt he will do.
Was Russell Wilson ever a team guy? And when was the last time he was a football player first kind of guy? According to toffee, he speculated that Russ was never a team guy, he was for Russell Wilson from day one, will not sacrifice anything for the team, certainly not when it comes to $$$. He has never truly been a football first kind of player either, football ain't nothing but a vehicle for something bigger.
 

GemCity

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I’m glad I’m not a betting man because, I thought he was going to have his best statistical season this year.

I saw some skills in the decline but….most of the anti-Russ crowd wanted him gone for a mixed bag of reasons…and they were absolutely right.

Buuuuuuttttt…not taking away anything from our smart analysts on .net but NFW anyone predicted this shit show in Bronco Land. It’s epic. He’s got a whole damn city hating him and he looks so off keel.

I mean…..did anyone state on this board that he was going to completely crash and burn?

It’s nuts.
 

strohmin

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I’m glad I’m not a betting man because, I thought he was going to have his best statistical season this year.

I saw some skills in the decline but….most of the anti-Russ crowd wanted him gone for a mixed bag of reasons…and they were absolutely right.

Buuuuuuttttt…not taking away anything from our smart analysts on .net but NFW anyone predicted this shit show in Bronco Land. It’s epic. He’s got a whole damn city hating him and he looks so off keel.

I mean…..did anyone state on this board that he was going to completely crash and burn?

It’s nuts.

I wanted him gone in 2018 but that is because I always thought he was a one and done in the playoffs every year. He never seemed to get better since his rookie season. It felt like he only played one way his entire career. He always talked about being better than Brady and Manning yet I never saw any of the basic fundamental qb stuff like presnap reads and adjustments or moving in the pocket. I was glad he went to Denver. However, as you said, I really thought he would play really well in the regular season for the broncos and flame out in the playoffs like usual. Never did I expect him to play this horrible.
 

strohmin

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Was Russell Wilson ever a team guy? And when was the last time he was a football player first kind of guy? According to toffee, he speculated that Russ was never a team guy, he was for Russell Wilson from day one, will not sacrifice anything for the team, certainly not when it comes to $$$. He has never truly been a football first kind of player either, football ain't nothing but a vehicle for something bigger.

When Russell first came to Seattle, he seemed like a hungry player who had a chip on his shoulder like the rest of the team. He may have always been a me guy but it felt like it was in a good way that worked well with the rest of the team. I thought he was fine all the way until we lost the second super bowl. After that, it felt like he became a completely different person. He got a huge payday, divorced his first wife, started dating Ciara, doing all sorts of commercials and starting businesses. It's like he stopped caring about becoming a better football player.
 

olyfan63

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It's not looking good at his age. Russ is awful in a timing based offense. He is at his best after the play breaks down and he has a phenomenal deep ball and that is as far as I go with positives. I heard a great quote on tv along the lines of "if he can only succeed in an offense where the play breaks down and he can extend and if he can no longer be able to do that, is he done?"

In Seattle Russ was great at destroying average and bad defenses by just running around playing backyard football because those defenses could not get enough pressure. Against great defenses and especially in the playoffs, I dont remember him ever having a good game against a good-great defense. If he were actually elite and good in a timing offense he would have some of those.
Hey, that's not fair! Remember that 2014 NFCCG against the Packers where Russell lit up an excellent Packers defense with 4 TD passes, including the game-winner for the walk-off OT win?

Oops, me neither. It's coming back to me now, it was 4 PICKS, not 4 TDs. And a lost fumble too, IIRC. Russell responsible for 5 turnovers that day. Somehow the LOB held Peak Aaron Rodgers to FGs instead of TDs and the Hawks got a miracle victory to advance to SB49.
 

olyfan63

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I’m glad I’m not a betting man because, I thought he was going to have his best statistical season this year.

I saw some skills in the decline but….most of the anti-Russ crowd wanted him gone for a mixed bag of reasons…and they were absolutely right.

Buuuuuuttttt…not taking away anything from our smart analysts on .net but NFW anyone predicted this shit show in Bronco Land. It’s epic. He’s got a whole damn city hating him and he looks so off keel.

I mean…..did anyone state on this board that he was going to completely crash and burn?

It’s nuts.
Not on this board, but Kurt Warner's videos on Russ gave the foundation information for predicting this outcome.
 

Spin Doctor

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When Russell first came to Seattle, he seemed like a hungry player who had a chip on his shoulder like the rest of the team. He may have always been a me guy but it felt like it was in a good way that worked well with the rest of the team. I thought he was fine all the way until we lost the second super bowl. After that, it felt like he became a completely different person. He got a huge payday, divorced his first wife, started dating Ciara, doing all sorts of commercials and starting businesses. It's like he stopped caring about becoming a better football player.
I don't think Wilson was ever that guy. We heard rumblings from about him early on in his career -- there are also stories surrounding Wilson that paint him in a poor light all the way back to college.

Something about Wilson just always seemed off to me. It's also telling how many of his teammates viewed him on those super bowl teams. Baldwin hated Wilson's guts, Golden Tate went out of his way to praise Stafford but was silent about Wilson for the most part.

Sherman even was talking about how Carroll went through great lengths to shield/protect Wilson and how he thought it was funny how now he's taking shots at him.

Wilson always seemed like a guy that just viewed football as a stepping stone. Even very early on he was involved in baseball during the offseason and all sorts of other time consuming things. Not that a player shouldn't have a life or other side gigs, but it just felt that football was never his main priority on his list of many things.

Wilson was always all about the optics. Every time he visited the children's hospital he made a huge, grandiose display. What many people don't know is that Peyton Manning did the same thing, only he never brought a camera crew with him or made a big deal of it.

Wilson has never be a consummate professional, instead he came off as a marketing division or perhaps a salesman.

At the end of the day, I think Carroll and perhaps his mentor that died protected Wilson from himself. Now that those two are out of the picture, his ego is left to its own devices. I don't think he's honest about his shortcomings as a player and I don't think he has been his whole career.

Schottenheimer and Carroll I think had a good thing going on. Schottenheimer is known for running an extremely tight ship and being a more old school type of coach. I suspect that Carroll and Schotty had a good cop, bad cop sort of relationship going on. It worked for awhile, until Wilson started making absurd demands. He started wanting to be involved in personnel decisions because... LOOK AT BRADY! He started throwing fits and acting like a toddler. Ultimately, I think this is why Schottenheimer was canned. Carroll cites "difference in philosophy"

but... the thing here is that Schottenheimer was always a guy that followed his coaches instructions. His head coach would say jump? Schottenheimer would jump. This is the same guy that called 40 runs in a game because Rex Ryan wanted to establish a run game. Schottenheimer didn't even bring his own playbook with him and stuck with established terminology. Carroll stated when he was hired that most of the playbook would be Carroll's. Why? Probably because Wilson was unable to run any other type of offense.

I suspect that Waldron was also something that Wilson tried advocating for. Shanahan and McVay were obviously the hottest names in football at the time. Everyone was talking about the Shanahan system, it was all the rage and.. in many ways it still is. Of course Wilson would think he's capable of running the dominant offensive meta.

I suspect that Waldron was the last ditch effort to get Wilson under control. I noticed he was given a lot more freedom at the LOS in 2021, initially. Wilson never looked comfortable in this offense -- as a result Carroll intervened and went to a paired back offense that was predicated off of the play action pass and run, using extremely simple route concepts.

Wilson never took the initiative to understand the game. There was a reason we spent more time than any other team on the scramble drill. It was a necessity with Wilson under center. Wilson had extremely good instincts and was a natural at playing without any sort of structure around him. Wilson was always a QB that needed special types of support to succeed. I'm not sure he would have been more than a flash in the pan without someone like Carroll managing him and protecting him from his own ego.

Wilson has always been who he is. Ciera didn't change him, money didn't change him, this has always been Wilson. Now, Hackett has found himself over his head. They gave Wilson terms which included phrases such as "partnership" and they're allowing "team 3" to come and go as they please in the facility. It's absurd and what Wilson needs more than anything else right now is a good, hard, strong reality check.
 

Lagartixa

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Hey, that's not fair! Remember that 2014 NFCCG against the Packers where Russell lit up an excellent Packers defense with 4 TD passes, including the game-winner for the walk-off OT win?

Oops, me neither. It's coming back to me now, it was 4 PICKS, not 4 TDs. And a lost fumble too, IIRC. Russell responsible for 5 turnovers that day. Somehow the LOB held Peak Aaron Rodgers to FGs instead of TDs and the Hawks got a miracle victory to advance to SB49.

Please don't forget the moment that produced the most memorable image from that game.

1670417331281
 

Spin Doctor

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Not on this board, but Kurt Warner's videos on Russ gave the foundation information for predicting this outcome.
Kurt Warner, Samuel Gold, and a few others really highlighted his problem areas long before his decline. Kurt Warner went out of his way to say that the offensive concepts were solid too, it's just that Wilson was incapable of executing. Often times the right call for the situation was dialed in, Kurt Warner highlighted that fact quite a bit. It just goes to show you how little Wilson actually understood the game.
 

RiverDog

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I’m glad I’m not a betting man because, I thought he was going to have his best statistical season this year.

I saw some skills in the decline but….most of the anti-Russ crowd wanted him gone for a mixed bag of reasons…and they were absolutely right.

Buuuuuuttttt…not taking away anything from our smart analysts on .net but NFW anyone predicted this shit show in Bronco Land. It’s epic. He’s got a whole damn city hating him and he looks so off keel.

I mean…..did anyone state on this board that he was going to completely crash and burn?

It’s nuts.
I, too, had noticed a decline for about the past 1.5 years. He wasn't nearly as elusive, didn't throw over the middle and instead opted for lower percentage throws outside the numbers. His 3rd down completion percentage was awful, one of the worst in the league. When he injured his finger, I felt that he forced his way back into the lineup way too early instead of doing what was best for the team. And when he was traded, I said that he was going to have to make some changes in his game if he was going to be successful.

But no way did I ever imagine the shit show. The combination of a quarterback that has failed to compensate for his declining skill set and a completely overwhelmed rookie head coach was a perfect storm. And the ironic thing is that had they fielded just an average offense, one that scores 21 PPG, they'd be 9-3 and leading their division.
 

IndyHawk

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You can train, get back in playing shape, work out the bugs…come back in the best physical shape you’ve ever been in.

The mental on the other hand…
Right the mental side and what he doesn't have as a QB will make anything moot.
He may put up better numbers and win a few games but there will be no more
Championships or SB's..Legacy floating in the toilet.
 

IndyHawk

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I, too, had noticed a decline for about the past 1.5 years. He wasn't nearly as elusive, didn't throw over the middle and instead opted for lower percentage throws outside the numbers. His 3rd down completion percentage was awful, one of the worst in the league. When he injured his finger, I felt that he forced his way back into the lineup way too early instead of doing what was best for the team. And when he was traded, I said that he was going to have to make some changes in his game if he was going to be successful.

But no way did I ever imagine the shit show. The combination of a quarterback that has failed to compensate for his declining skill set and a completely overwhelmed rookie head coach was a perfect storm. And the ironic thing is that had they fielded just an average offense, one that scores 21 PPG, they'd be 9-3 and leading their division.
Interesting that our 3rd down completion is the best it's been since 2012
meanwhile Denvers is at or near the bottom like ours was prior to this year.
That to me speaks for itself.
 

Torc

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Hey, that's not fair! Remember that 2014 NFCCG against the Packers where Russell lit up an excellent Packers defense with 4 TD passes, including the game-winner for the walk-off OT win?

Oops, me neither. It's coming back to me now, it was 4 PICKS, not 4 TDs. And a lost fumble too, IIRC. Russell responsible for 5 turnovers that day. Somehow the LOB held Peak Aaron Rodgers to FGs instead of TDs and the Hawks got a miracle victory to advance to SB49.
Let's not forget that all four interceptions were on targets to Jermaine Kearse, and if I remember correctly three of those were bounces off his hands, not bad throws. That game is a credit to Russell. I'm not minimizing the defense's role at all - they kept the hawks in the game. Also, the Packers were idiots - they were scared to throw at a one-armed Richard Sherman, and obviously the onside kick. But we shouldn't try to rewrite history - Russ was part of the reason the comeback happened.
 

onanygivensunday

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Hey, that's not fair! Remember that 2014 NFCCG against the Packers where Russell lit up an excellent Packers defense with 4 TD passes, including the game-winner for the walk-off OT win?

Oops, me neither. It's coming back to me now, it was 4 PICKS, not 4 TDs. And a lost fumble too, IIRC. Russell responsible for 5 turnovers that day. Somehow the LOB held Peak Aaron Rodgers to FGs instead of TDs and the Hawks got a miracle victory to advance to SB49.
To be fair, I believe that three of those INTs hit Jermaine Kearse in the hands.
 

IndyHawk

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To be fair, I believe that three of those INTs hit Jermaine Kearse in the hands.
I can't remember if they were high or should have been inside or outside the WR
Did 3 throw early or late in the route?
We don't know these things..I sure am using the John63 tatic here.
 

keasley45

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I’m glad I’m not a betting man because, I thought he was going to have his best statistical season this year.

I saw some skills in the decline but….most of the anti-Russ crowd wanted him gone for a mixed bag of reasons…and they were absolutely right.

Buuuuuuttttt…not taking away anything from our smart analysts on .net but NFW anyone predicted this shit show in Bronco Land. It’s epic. He’s got a whole damn city hating him and he looks so off keel.

I mean…..did anyone state on this board that he was going to completely crash and burn?

It’s nuts.
I'm pretty sure that I said that they would be the worst team in their division and that he was arguably the 3rs or 4th best qb in their division and that they wouldn't make the playoffs. Also said that there was no way he'd got to Denver and miraculously learn how to play football... that what he was incapable of was obvious and would be pretty plain to see in a system that didn't protect him the way ours did.

His own, very special version of self destruction he's engaged in.. . That's a development that I didn't see coming. But when you look at the smoke that was 90% of his ex teammates either having a negative impression of him or nothing positive to say, and the self serving, dilusional way he'd gone about tearing the organization down, while defending everything he himself did, rejecting his latest coordinator's calls for an entire season...and it's not necessarily a surprise.
 
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toffee

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I'm pretty sure that I said that they would be the worst team in their division and that he was arguably the 3rs or 4th best qb in their division and that they wouldn't make the playoffs. Also said that there was no way he'd got to Denver and miraculously learn how to play football... that what he was incapable of was obvious and would be pretty plain to see in a system that didn't protect him the way ours did.

His own, very special version of self destruction he's engaged in.. . That's a development that I didn't see coming. But when you look at the smoke that was 90% of his ex teammates either having a negative impression of him or nothing positive to say, and the self serving, dilusional way he'd gone about tearing the organization down, while defending everything he himself did, rejecting his latest coordinator's calls for an entire season...and it's not necessarily a surprise.
Yes, you nailed it. I so respect you for your foresight.
 

Glasgow Seahawk

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Assuming Wilson isn't washed and this is fixable, it's still going to be tough to fix it by next year. I keep forgetting they don't have their first and 2nd round pick next year. Which makes things really difficult to fix the O-Line for starters. Might need to trade some of the defense or Sutton/Jeudy to get the picks to fix it. Got to hope you can get a quality RB in the third round or below and if you trade those receivers try and get someone that is a better fit/has chemistry with Wilson.

I think RB and O-line are a must for them if you assume Wilson is fixable.

As far as coaching, I don't think many good coaches are touching that. Maybe Dan Quinn would like a second chance at it and knows Wilson and did have a couple of good years at the Falcons. For OC you probably need someone who had some sort of success with Wilson before i.e Bevell or Schotty (for 3/4 of a season).
 

AROS

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Let's not forget that all four interceptions were on targets to Jermaine Kearse, and if I remember correctly three of those were bounces off his hands, not bad throws. That game is a credit to Russell. I'm not minimizing the defense's role at all - they kept the hawks in the game. Also, the Packers were idiots - they were scared to throw at a one-armed Richard Sherman, and obviously the onside kick. But we shouldn't try to rewrite history - Russ was part of the reason the comeback happened.

Precisely. While I agree with much that is said about Wilson these days (Mr. Tone Deaf), there also tends to be some revisionist history happening. It's easy to pile on and conveniently forget all of the magic he produced for us all those years. I remember that game clearly and while yes Russ got pinged for those 4 picks, I remember being much more pissed off with Kearse for letting those catchable balls bounce off his hands. Luckily for us all he redeemed himself with that OT TD catch in the endzone.

Someone earlier in this thread said Russ mentioned being better than Brady and Manning? When did he ever say that? Sure, he always aspired to be the best to play in league history but not once did I hear him ever say he WAS better than Brady and Manning. Just another example of how easy it is to have a warped sense of the past to fit the current narrative.
 
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