Holmgren:‘Huge mistake’ if RW doesn’t sign ‘very fair' offer

[erik2690]

^ It's absolutely foggy but that's why agents (even the Bus Cook's, Tom Condon's, David Dunn's, Drew Rosenhaus's, etc.) get paid to not only be pr*cks but to get deals done. Yet here comes this turkey and the chicken (Rodgers) vs egg (RW) debate into the unknown.

They have a strategy, I think we have yet to know for sure what the strategy is and if it's "right". I think a decent amount of that becomes clearer at the start of camp deadline. Because the problem right now in this time window before that is that RW has no real incentive to sign. The only potential axe is a Wagner deal, but besides that the contract can only get better for him in the next week. So signing before last minute seems unlikely even if he is willing to budge. Of course it isn't even that simple (not very simple) because the camp deadline is artificial. They could still in theory negotiate during season and this is just a tactic so that if it doesn't happen now the media drops it and they can say it's done for now. There's a lot of layers here and I think we at least get to peel back a couple at the start of camp one way or the other. Up until then though I think even best case scenario they wait as long as possible because I don't think the deal can get lower only higher. Of course the Seahawks have the X-factor of Wagner as an axe like I said, but they likely want to wait on Wilson until last minute as well because they would rather get him done over Wagner. The option that makes all of this pointless is the option that RW/agent truly do want the tag/free agency route almost no matter what. Even if no deal happens it's hard to say that's the reason why, but if that is their thinking then this becomes pointless speculation b/c I doubt the team would jump up in g'teed money enough to shake that mindset if that's what they want.

 

[DavidSeven]

I still don't think Ben is the better comparison vs. Cam. I think determining what is "fair" is pretty tough with any sort of finality or certainty. The market seems to dictate he will get >Cam money. Fairness gets more foggy because Cam has less, Brady has more, Cutler has less and so on.

No one is saying Ben is a better comparison than Cam. Cam is a fine comparison, but we already know Russell will make more than him. If Russell was willing to take Cam's deal, this thing would've been done in April. The question is how much more should he make. What is the upper limit? And right now, the upper limit in the market is defined by what Aaron and Ben make (21.7-22M per year), and there is no reason to believe an offer far above that upper limit is warranted. Aaron and Ben are better players right now. Russell is younger, but so is Cam and that alone didn't get him a bigger deal than Aaron/Ben.

 

[scutterhawk]

I am of the one who thinks any average qb could come into this team and we still would be a division champ. This is Lynchs n the Def's team.

I've been searching for a chump, er I mean champ, I just might have some Lake Front property in China that I can let go, REALLY cheap, so I'm going to let you and Tcal duke it out on this great deal.
Send me your bid on a 3x5 Post Card, I will accept a Cashiers check, but I'm really way more open to a cash deal.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, some people think we can make the super bowl with T-Jack, so.......

And just because the media claims he is asking to be the highest paid player, means nothing.

 

[erik2690]

No one is saying Ben is a better comparison than Cam. Cam is a fine comparison, but we already know Russell will make more than him. If Russell was willing to take Cam's deal, this thing would've been done in April. The question is how much more should he make. What is the upper limit? And right now, the upper limit in the market is defined by what Aaron and Ben make (21.7-22M per year), and there is no reason to believe an offer far above that upper limit is warranted. Aaron and Ben are better players right now. Russell is younger, but so is Cam and that alone didn't get him a bigger deal than Aaron/Ben.

Okay, I'm better understanding what you are saying now. I don't think it should be any more than just a hair above those 2 at max. Listen, it's super hard to sort out what is completely true, but I've heard a couple people report that the APY is no longer as big a hurdle as the g'teed money. Like the per year is actually close if not agreed upon. Again tough to sort fact from fiction.

The other thing I heard yesterday that I would love some opinion on is that a big sticking point was signing bonus. Does that make sense? Could that just be someone meaning g'teed money. The source using the term "signing bonus" specifically could easily have some knowledge because they are close to RW, but not actually in on anything from a FB perspective. Like does signing bonus being a main roadblock seem weird or not?

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

There's a reason why Holmgren is being this forthright. He's connected.

Davis Hsu says Wilson wants $75m guaranteed and Seattle is offering in the $50m's. Aaron Rodgers received $54m. I believe his info -- it plays right into everything else that has been reported by Holmgren, Danny O'Neil and Jason Cole.

If Wilson is holding out for $75m when SEA is willing to offer him a little more than Rodgers guaranteed, Holmgren is spot on. He needs to sign that deal.

If this scenario is accurate, it really doesn't say much for Wilson's 'team first' image.

 

[UK_Seahawk]

Does guaranteed money affect the cap hit? I still feel that the FO would gladly pay Wilson whatever he wants it's the cap hit that has to be managed so we stay competitive.

 

[seahawks08]

I am loving all the conversations, opinions and how passionate all of us are on this topic. Something to keep ourselves engaged with the Seahawks. At the end, I strongly feel we will sign him, it is just more of a realization for both parties that they are not giving up too much in the process. Negotiation is something where both parties get what they want without giving up what they believe in. I have only respect for RW for who he is and a wonderful group of FO and coaches starting with Pete and John. I can't wait for the season to start, I know eventually God will speak to RW to take the deal :roll: None of us will make a dime out of the deal though.. joking...Happy Blue Friday.. GO HAWKS.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Does guaranteed money affect the cap hit? I still feel that the FO would gladly pay Wilson whatever he wants it's the cap hit that has to be managed so we stay competitive.

Yes it does. The reason most contracts are a combo of guaranteed/no guaranteed salary and bonus is so that the team can spread out that bonus over the life of the contract, which lessens that player's cap hit per season.

 

[byau]

It's outrageous that RW wants equal or more than Rogers. And whats funny is that there are some who even support his position. In fact, I'm surprised he has the balls to even ask for that!

Nice bullet item post

A few things:

Rodgers also signed his contract two years ago ... newer contracts always set the market. Rodgers would be paid more this summer if his contract were signed this year.

Even that aside, you get paid not always what you're worth (and that will always be debated no matter what it is) but what people will pay for you. If Russell were a UFA this summer, there would certainly be teams willing to pay equal-to-or-more-than-Aaron-Rodgers money.

Good points and I agree. It's not a fair world out there. But RW n his agent keeps bragging about being paid fairly n in accordance to his play, which is not worth worthy of the amount he is asking.
.

The two go a bit hand in hand, my point and the point you state above - I agree that if you talk soley on merit, it's hard to tell any QB that you should be paid more than Rodgers. When you consider that this type of merit will never be available to you on the open market and the only way to really get it is to hit it lucky in the draft again, that will demand the $25mil or better number.

However, you won't hear RW and his agent say that because that's not a good negotiating point: I'm guessing RW's team has to market strictly on merit to keep their stance strong and then let the organization basically figure it out: you can't even replace a Russell Wilson because no one of this merit will ever be available to you, so if you want to keep Russell you will have to pay.

 

[gowazzu02]

Ive said from the jump he wont play at 1.5 this year. It would take him way to long to make that up.

Say he signs at 22 this year. vs playing out the 1.5. Even if he signs the biggest contract in football history next year at 25.

He left 20.5 million on the table this year.

He makes 3 mill more then he would of,

that take 6 plus years to make up that lost revenue........ just bad business.

 

[SeaChase]

Let Wilson walk. He's asking for way too much money. He's gun shy and misses far too many open targets. Can you imagine having a passing game to go along with the awesome D and run game? :stirthepot:

 

[Narniaman]

Ive said from the jump he wont play at 1.5 this year. It would take him way to long to make that up.

Say he signs at 22 this year. vs playing out the 1.5. Even if he signs the biggest contract in football history next year at 25.

He left 20.5 million on the table this year.

He makes 3 mill more then he would of,

that take 6 plus years to make up that lost revenue........ just bad business.

Uhh. . . I thought the Seahawks have made it quite clear that they've got Wilson at a salary paying less than 10% of the amount comparable quarterbacks are making this year, and he's not getting a thin dime more money come hell or high water for playing this year.

Any contract Wilson signs this year . . . will be go into effect after this year. Now he may very well get bonus money up front as a result of that. . . but it's money from contracting to play after this year, and not this year.

In other words, Russell Wilson has two choices. . . . .he can either play out this year at $1.5 million. . . or he can hold out and get paid zero dollars and zero cents.

The Seahawks aren't tearing up his present contract and giving him a new one, and their not adjusting his salary for this year upward like they did for Lynch last year.

 

[hawknation2015]

Ive said from the jump he wont play at 1.5 this year. It would take him way to long to make that up.

Say he signs at 22 this year. vs playing out the 1.5. Even if he signs the biggest contract in football history next year at 25.

He left 20.5 million on the table this year.

He makes 3 mill more then he would of,

that take 6 plus years to make up that lost revenue........ just bad business.

Uhh. . . I thought the Seahawks have made it quite clear that they've got Wilson at a salary paying less than 10% of the amount comparable quarterbacks are making this year, and he's not getting a thin dime more money come hell or high water for playing this year.

Any contract Wilson signs this year . . . will be go into effect after this year. Now he may very well get bonus money up front as a result of that. . . but it's money from contracting to play after this year, and not this year.

In other words, Russell Wilson has two choices. . . . .he can either play out this year at $1.5 million. . . or he can hold out and get paid zero dollars and zero cents.

The Seahawks aren't tearing up his present contract and giving him a new one, and their not adjusting his salary for this year upward like they did for Lynch last year.

Wilson can't hold out. If he holds out into August, he loses an accrued season towards free agency. Meaning he would still be playing on his rookie deal next season if he holds out.

 

[Boycie]

I still doubt someone will pay him to be the highest paid player today if he was a free agent. I don't think He has the amount of respect as he does from the seahawks n seattleites elsewhere.

Plus, I am of the one who thinks any average qb could come into this team and we still would be a division champ. This is Lynchs n the Def's team.

If RW hit the open market, he would easily be snapped up by numerous teams, and they would pay him whatever he wanted. RW is a franchise QB who has a track record of winning, and guys like him do not come around very often. It is not in Seattle's best interest to lose him, and if you think an average QB could take his spot and get us to another SB, then your are sorely mistaken.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

In other words, Russell Wilson has two choices. . . . .he can either play out this year at $1.5 million. . . or he can hold out and get paid zero dollars and zero cents.

That's why there's no urgency for Russell and his agent to get a deal done now. The Hawks have made it clear that even if an extension is done, Russell has to wait until 2016 to get his money.

So why not wait another year or two if you're Russell? His leverage would only increase.........which means his guaranteed $$$$ also increases. This is especially true if his stats continue to rise, and we make another SB or two.

 

[McGruff]

Let Wilson walk. He's asking for way too much money. He's gun shy and misses far too many open targets. Can you imagine having a passing game to go along with the awesome D and run game? :stirthepot:

1. How much money is he asking?

2. Wilson has a better completion percentage his first three years starting than Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Andrew Luck, Phllip Rivers and just about any other QB you can imagine. The ONLY top QB who started better than Wilson is Rogers, and he was a three year veteran before he became a starter. Accuracy is the farthest thing from an issue with Wilson.

3. We won't have an eilte passing game until the blocking improves, the WR's get separation . . . AND THE COACHING STAFF CHANGES!!!!

 

[StoneCold]

Ive said from the jump he wont play at 1.5 this year. It would take him way to long to make that up.

Say he signs at 22 this year. vs playing out the 1.5. Even if he signs the biggest contract in football history next year at 25.

He left 20.5 million on the table this year.

He makes 3 mill more then he would of,

that take 6 plus years to make up that lost revenue........ just bad business.

THEY ARE NOT RENEGOTIATING HIS LAST YEAR.

He will play this year for 1.5 mil regardless when he signs.

SC

 

[Rocket]

I kind of think the Seahawks should give Wilson what he is asking for, but with the stipulation that he make a list of the players for them to cut to be able to afford his salary. This whole "get yours" attitude is fine and all but let's face it, however much he gets isn't going to affect how much money the team spends on players. He's not getting more of Paul Allen's money. Likely, he's getting Mebane's money. Maybe Okung's money.

This was the best post so far about the Wilson contract issues.
Good job, Bro !!!

 

[StoneCold]

I kind of think the Seahawks should give Wilson what he is asking for, but with the stipulation that he make a list of the players for them to cut to be able to afford his salary. This whole "get yours" attitude is fine and all but let's face it, however much he gets isn't going to affect how much money the team spends on players. He's not getting more of Paul Allen's money. Likely, he's getting Mebane's money. Maybe Okung's money.

This was the best post so far about the Wilson contract issues.
Good job, Bro !!!

Hey, if they're going to make him do the GM's job they should pay him even more. I just watched Draft Day. That job sucks.

SC