Geno Smith the headcase

[Ozzy]

Agreed on the weapons part - very strong trio of receivers and a good RB..... but list his "weapons" on the offensive line.

IMO - Geno is somewhere in the 10-12 range. But with a solid offense line, he would easily be 5-7 range. IF you make allowances for Burrow being behind a bad offensive line, then you have to have to make the same allowances for Geno. AND, if you think this Oline is solid to good, how do you explain the stats that say absolutely otherwise?

But Burrow with a bad line didn't average a touchdown and Int per game, he actually has put up very good numbers under similar situations. Russ did too. Mahomes has in the past although this year seems like a weird one. Mahomes also has terrible weapons where Geno has fantastic weapons.

You're entitled to it but I have a really, really hard time putting Geno in the top 5-7 when you look at all the starters. You have to move him past multiple guys who have put up much better numbers for years.

I don't think the line has been good but it was better last game and I have hope it continues to improve.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Just win on Sunday. Geno needs to take the team on his back, he's capable. We HAVE TO get the damn home field advantage back.
I'm looking at Sunday as a playoff game. Just like Coach Dreamboat did on Sunday vs. the 29ers.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Pshhh all time

There's a lot. Lol

 

[Ozzy]

I hate injecting Russ into this because everyone hates it and I don't really blame people....If he put up 11-11 TD/INT numbers at any point during his time here or even afterwards people would absolutely crucify him. He didn't though, he put up much better numbers even during times of horrible line play, worse weapons, bad running game etc.

I would also argue the bad defense argument can actually help a QB put up better numbers just because of volume.

 

[Ozzy]

If Lucas and Olu play like they appeared to this past weekend I think this offense and everyone included can take off.

 

[Chukarhawk]

pretty crazy that a guy that has been in the league for 11 years and has never once thrown for 4 touchdowns don't you think? Shit, Bo Nix hasn't even played a whole season and he's already thrown for 4 in a game.

 

[keasley45]

Somewhere between 12-15, imo. And that's pretty damn good. What's a bummer is being blasted and talked to like you're an idiot if you don't think he's top 10 or even top tier. It's just strange. To me. Sadly, it's more about personal shots at people than it is just talking football much of the time.

Ok apologies then. I think, and I could be wrong, that we're overstating those three things as if they only apply to Geno. A lot of teams struggle in multiple areas and QB's can still put up massive numbers. Hell I argued Russ did with similar issues and it was called a bad argument so its odd it applies to Geno but not other QB's. Burrow for example, and I realize this isn't the point you were making has had much worse situations and put up video game numbers. I say this to say this sort of shows Geno is a good, not great QB.

Even this Niners game the line played much better and the defense was fantastic. How did Geno do? He had an up and down game but also had a great drive to end it. I don't think Geno even with a lot of changes does a ton better than what he is now. Fixing those things doesn't improve your decision making a ton and I think he would still have that issue. I also think we get a chance to see though. The defense appears to be much better and the line looks like its trending in the right direction too. We shall see and I guarantee everyone in this thread is rooting for Geno and the team to improve.

I don't think your argument is without merit, I just think it might be a little overstated here that's all. I could be wrong.

But Ozzy. Thats the thing. In an effort to dispell the notion that defending Geno was a blind act of fandom, I ( and i think @Maelstrom787 did as well ) pulled down stats of other QBS in the league and where their respective O lines, Defenses, and Running games ranked and there were ZERO Qbs who did more with less. ZERO. I quoted the stats and went through the effort to post the data and it was ignored. AND THAT is the frustration. You can PROVE statistically that Geno has far outporformed his supporting cast and finished ranked higher as a passer than QB unanimoulsy considered to be better than him who had far better supporting casts and it falls on def ears.

Its no different than just today, @pittpnthrs (i think it was him) stating Burrow was capable of doing more with similar pieces than what Geno has had. The fact is last year we had a worse running game, o line and defense and Geno finished ranked better than Burrow.

Similarly this year Burrow is lighting it up in a few categories. His team's record? 4 and 7. His TD to INT ration is great and he truly is playing great football. But the point here is that Burrow, with his superlative stats, and elite receievers who arent dropping balls at the rate Seattle's are, is incapable of lifting his team beyond 4-7. Why? because his defense sucks, his o line isnt great, and his running game is dragging as well, But none are as bad as ours. Yet geno gets blasted for going 9-8.

When you CHOOSE to ignore stats that are laid out in front of you so that you can harp on the same old tired tropes about the dude's overall career, when what he did before Seattle has no bearing on what and who he is now, THAT is the side choosing blindly to beat a certain drum.

I have said over and over again and posted facts to support it that NO QB in the league has done more with less the last two years and it doenst matter. The same arguments are made.

If all it is is that a person doesnt like a guy no matter what , thats cool. Then just dont spin persoanl feelings into a debate when there is no chance your mind will change and call someone else unreasonabe. And I am not calling you out, just speaking generally, because you hear over and over again - 'God forbid someone says anything bad about Geno '. When thats not the case. I can point to a ton of analytical vids, assessments, tape reviews, etc where football folks outside of .net look at geno's game and say pretty plainly he's made mistakes but is playing extrememly good ball on a team that seems determined to shoot itself in the foot enough to lose again and again. Assessments that point to the INTs and remark on them with an asterisk, given how few were actually poor decision and poor throws. Why? because not all INTS are cretaed equal. Just as quarterback ratings can be misleading because of how litte data they pull from, INTs and TDs for that matter can be misleading without the context to show how they occured.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Geno = Good enough!!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

But Ozzy. Thats the thing. In an effort to dispell the notion that defending Geno was a blind act of fandom, I ( and i think @Maelstrom787 did as well ) pulled down stats of other QBS in the league and where their respective O lines, Defenses, and Running games ranked and there were ZERO Qbs who did more with less. ZERO. I quoted the stats and went through the effort to post the data and it was ignored. AND THAT is the frustration. You can PROVE statistically that Geno has far outporformed his supporting cast and finished ranked higher as a passer than QB unanimoulsy considered to be better than him who had far better supporting casts and it falls on def ears.

Its no different than just today, @pittpnthrs (i think it was him) stating Burrow was capable of doing more with similar pieces than what Geno has had. The fact is last year we had a worse running game, o line and defense and Geno finished ranked better than Burrow.

Similarly this year Burrow is lighting it up in a few categories. His team's record? 4 and 7. His TD to INT ration is great and he truly is playing great football. But the point here is that Burrow, with his superlative stats, and elite receievers who arent dropping balls at the rate Seattle's are, is incapable of lifting his team beyond 4-7. Why? because his defense sucks, his o line isnt great, and his running game is dragging as well, But none are as bad as ours. Yet geno gets blasted for going 9-8.

When you CHOOSE to ignore stats that are laid out in front of you so that you can harp on the same old tired tropes about the dude's overall career, when what he did before Seattle has no bearing on what and who he is now, THAT is the side choosing blindly to beat a certain drum.

I have said over and over again and posted facts to support it that NO QB in the league has done more with less the last two years and it doenst matter. The same arguments are made.

If all it is is that a person doesnt like a guy no matter what , thats cool. Then just dont spin persoanl feelings into a debate when there is no chance your mind will change and call someone else unreasonabe. And I am not calling you out, just speaking generally, because you hear over and over again - 'God forbid someone says anything bad about Geno '. When thats not the case. I can point to a ton of analytical vids, assessments, tape reviews, etc where football folks outside of .net look at geno's game and say pretty plainly he's made mistakes but is playing extrememly good ball on a team that seems determined to shoot itself in the foot enough to lose again and again. Assessments that point to the INTs and remark on them with an asterisk, given how few were actually poor decision and poor throws. Why? because not all INTS are cretaed equal. Just as quarterback ratings can be misleading because of how litte data they pull from, INTs and TDs for that matter can be misleading without the context to show how they occured.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree on some of it. I'm good with that. If it could just be football conversations without someone getting personal, and/or taking to me like I'm a 5-year-old who's never watched football? It would be a much better subject to discuss.
I stuck up for myself, I got a week-long vacation for it. And I absolutely deserved it. I just wonder why there seems to be some legit double standards.
I love this site, but it's getting less enjoyable when you get blasted every time you say anything other than Geno is top 5, he's elite, he floats in midair, nothing is his fault etc.
And NO, I'm not being 100 percent serious, but you get the point.

QB is the most scrutinized position in sports, that will never change.

 

[pittpnthrs]

But Ozzy. Thats the thing. In an effort to dispell the notion that defending Geno was a blind act of fandom, I ( and i think @Maelstrom787 did as well ) pulled down stats of other QBS in the league and where their respective O lines, Defenses, and Running games ranked and there were ZERO Qbs who did more with less. ZERO. I quoted the stats and went through the effort to post the data and it was ignored. AND THAT is the frustration. You can PROVE statistically that Geno has far outporformed his supporting cast and finished ranked higher as a passer than QB unanimoulsy considered to be better than him who had far better supporting casts and it falls on def ears.

Its no different than just today, @pittpnthrs (i think it was him) stating Burrow was capable of doing more with similar pieces than what Geno has had. The fact is last year we had a worse running game, o line and defense and Geno finished ranked better than Burrow.

Similarly this year Burrow is lighting it up in a few categories. His team's record? 4 and 7. His TD to INT ration is great and he truly is playing great football. But the point here is that Burrow, with his superlative stats, and elite receievers who arent dropping balls at the rate Seattle's are, is incapable of lifting his team beyond 4-7. Why? because his defense sucks, his o line isnt great, and his running game is dragging as well, But none are as bad as ours. Yet geno gets blasted for going 9-8.

When you CHOOSE to ignore stats that are laid out in front of you so that you can harp on the same old tired tropes about the dude's overall career, when what he did before Seattle has no bearing on what and who he is now, THAT is the side choosing blindly to beat a certain drum.

I have said over and over again and posted facts to support it that NO QB in the league has done more with less the last two years and it doenst matter. The same arguments are made.

If all it is is that a person doesnt like a guy no matter what , thats cool. Then just dont spin persoanl feelings into a debate when there is no chance your mind will change and call someone else unreasonabe. And I am not calling you out, just speaking generally, because you hear over and over again - 'God forbid someone says anything bad about Geno '. When thats not the case. I can point to a ton of analytical vids, assessments, tape reviews, etc where football folks outside of .net look at geno's game and say pretty plainly he's made mistakes but is playing extrememly good ball on a team that seems determined to shoot itself in the foot enough to lose again and again. Assessments that point to the INTs and remark on them with an asterisk, given how few were actually poor decision and poor throws. Why? because not all INTS are cretaed equal. Just as quarterback ratings can be misleading because of how litte data they pull from, INTs and TDs for that matter can be misleading without the context to show how they occured.

Your pulling down stats Keas, but their meaningless because of context. How can you compare what Geno is doing to what Burrow is doing when there's things like different schemes, different personnel, schedule descrepencies, etc,,,? You can't. What your actually trying to say is that Geno is a superior QB than Burrow because other areas grade worse in Seattle than Cinncy and that's crazy. Things arent the same. A true comparison would be to drop each other in each others shoes with the knowledge they both have of the playbooks, the personnel, and the opponents they play. It's impossible to do so. Regardless, we still try to some extent. When doing these comparisons, you use the rankings of the areas around them like the Oline, the running game, and the defense. I look at it differently. No big deal.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's just plain not at the level of Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson etc. It's not close. People are going to believe what they want to believe, and I respect that.
I just don't agree, that's all. He's above average, can be damn good, but can also be pretty damn bad. He will never be on the level of those guys, ever. But he's a solid fit for THIS team. I expect more from the starting QB, and yes he is working behind a sh** o line, much of the time. He's probably not as good as many make him out to be, all while not being as bad as others make him out to be. He's in the middle somewhere, slightly above average. In that 12-15 range. Hopefully trending up.

I'm hoping Sunday was a huge boost. Not just for him, but for entire team.

 

[Ozzy]

But Ozzy. Thats the thing. In an effort to dispell the notion that defending Geno was a blind act of fandom, I ( and i think @Maelstrom787 did as well ) pulled down stats of other QBS in the league and where their respective O lines, Defenses, and Running games ranked and there were ZERO Qbs who did more with less. ZERO. I quoted the stats and went through the effort to post the data and it was ignored. AND THAT is the frustration. You can PROVE statistically that Geno has far outporformed his supporting cast and finished ranked higher as a passer than QB unanimoulsy considered to be better than him who had far better supporting casts and it falls on def ears.

Its no different than just today, @pittpnthrs (i think it was him) stating Burrow was capable of doing more with similar pieces than what Geno has had. The fact is last year we had a worse running game, o line and defense and Geno finished ranked better than Burrow.

Similarly this year Burrow is lighting it up in a few categories. His team's record? 4 and 7. His TD to INT ration is great and he truly is playing great football. But the point here is that Burrow, with his superlative stats, and elite receievers who arent dropping balls at the rate Seattle's are, is incapable of lifting his team beyond 4-7. Why? because his defense sucks, his o line isnt great, and his running game is dragging as well, But none are as bad as ours. Yet geno gets blasted for going 9-8.

When you CHOOSE to ignore stats that are laid out in front of you so that you can harp on the same old tired tropes about the dude's overall career, when what he did before Seattle has no bearing on what and who he is now, THAT is the side choosing blindly to beat a certain drum.

I have said over and over again and posted facts to support it that NO QB in the league has done more with less the last two years and it doenst matter. The same arguments are made.

If all it is is that a person doesnt like a guy no matter what , thats cool. Then just dont spin persoanl feelings into a debate when there is no chance your mind will change and call someone else unreasonabe. And I am not calling you out, just speaking generally, because you hear over and over again - 'God forbid someone says anything bad about Geno '. When thats not the case. I can point to a ton of analytical vids, assessments, tape reviews, etc where football folks outside of .net look at geno's game and say pretty plainly he's made mistakes but is playing extrememly good ball on a team that seems determined to shoot itself in the foot enough to lose again and again. Assessments that point to the INTs and remark on them with an asterisk, given how few were actually poor decision and poor throws. Why? because not all INTS are cretaed equal. Just as quarterback ratings can be misleading because of how litte data they pull from, INTs and TDs for that matter can be misleading without the context to show how they occured.

I've gone back and looked at QB's too who have had bad running games and bad lines and found multiple guys who have far better numbers (including Wilson a couple of years). That isn't to take anything away from Geno, he is playing admirably behind a bad line and a bad running game. I don't factor in the defense because I don't agree it has anything to do with his numbers. But the guy has 11 touchdowns and 11 picks this year, while admirable he's not setting the league on fire and you have to factor in his weapons he has. Other QB's don't have that luxury as well. I think that's a far more important factor than say defense.

I'm not blasing Geno for being .500, I think again its admirable and he's playing pretty well. The frustrating thing for me is he has all the tools to be elite, he just has too many mental mistakes that keeps him from being one of the elite. But like I said earlier I hope with the improved line comes a great second half stretch for him. We've seen him do it so heck who knows? Maybe he goes on a monster tear and we're all celebrating, its possible.

 

[AROS]

Hell, just run more like he did against the 9ers.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

No doubt. It's truly a weapon. And I hope he does it a lot more. Maybe tuck the ball in more when running (huh huh huh)

 

[Ozzy]

Hell, just run more like he did against the 9ers.

Yep its an underutilized element of his game. Hoping he does more of it as the year goes on.

 

[GetNjigbaWithIt]

Hell, just run more like he did against the 9ers.

Love the new avatar!

 

[toffee]

Geno Smith does not quit.

Drafted at a slot that doesn't reflect your caliber to a nonsense team?

Geno Smith does not quit.

Flame out in first NFL action?

Geno Smith does not quit.

Teammate breaks your jaw because you've got a bit of growing to do?

Geno Smith does not quit.

Bounce around as a backup, with every opportunity to start being taken away before it comes to pass?

Geno Smith does not quit.

Russell goes down in Seattle. You lead the team 98 yards down the field off the bench and almost engineer the comeback, but lose on an INT where your receiver tripped?

Geno Smith does not quit.

Lose your job back to Russ?

Geno Smith does not quit.

Win the starting job in 2022, have a career renaissance?

Geno Smith was there because he didn't quit.

Play for years with no rushing support, no defensive support, and no line?

Geno Smith does not quit.

The coach who believed in you more than anyone else did got fired and you've gotta start from square one with a new staff?

Geno Smith does not quit.

Fans think you're a headcase because you show a little emotion from time to time?

Geno Smith does not quit.

New offensive staff is somehow worse than the old one and you're getting teed off on weekly with an even worse rushing game?

Geno Smith does not quit.

Throw a terrible pick in a close game against a rival that you haven't yet been able to beat, a fact which the doubters repeat ad nauseam?

Geno Smith does not quit.

Headcases quit. Geno Smith does not quit.

Give up already dude, you are sounding like that wise mama telling her son that Mary is the perfect wife material. She is loyal, honest, a good cook, keeps the house clean, etc etc all the good stuff for a good wife and wonderful mother. For the son, he heard ya, and mama's right, but his dick goes limp every time he saw Mary. So the son would say, nah, Mary is bridge material, maybe a backup when he search for that hot one.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Give up already dude, you are sounding like that wise mama telling her son that Mary is the perfect wife material. She is loyal, honest, a good cook, keeps the house clean, etc etc all the good stuff for a good wife and wonderful mother. For the son, he heard ya, and mama's right, but his dick goes limp every time he saw Mary. So the son would say, nah, Mary is bridge material, maybe a backup when he search for that hot one.

Whoa, toffee. Be careful. If you say anything else to me, I'll go cry in every thread about how everyone is so mean to me and how I'm not allowed to have an opinion or something.

 

[Maelstrom787]

But Ozzy. Thats the thing. In an effort to dispell the notion that defending Geno was a blind act of fandom, I ( and i think @Maelstrom787 did as well ) pulled down stats of other QBS in the league and where their respective O lines, Defenses, and Running games ranked and there were ZERO Qbs who did more with less. ZERO. I quoted the stats and went through the effort to post the data and it was ignored. AND THAT is the frustration. You can PROVE statistically that Geno has far outporformed his supporting cast and finished ranked higher as a passer than QB unanimoulsy considered to be better than him who had far better supporting casts and it falls on def ears.

Its no different than just today, @pittpnthrs (i think it was him) stating Burrow was capable of doing more with similar pieces than what Geno has had. The fact is last year we had a worse running game, o line and defense and Geno finished ranked better than Burrow.

Similarly this year Burrow is lighting it up in a few categories. His team's record? 4 and 7. His TD to INT ration is great and he truly is playing great football. But the point here is that Burrow, with his superlative stats, and elite receievers who arent dropping balls at the rate Seattle's are, is incapable of lifting his team beyond 4-7. Why? because his defense sucks, his o line isnt great, and his running game is dragging as well, But none are as bad as ours. Yet geno gets blasted for going 9-8.

When you CHOOSE to ignore stats that are laid out in front of you so that you can harp on the same old tired tropes about the dude's overall career, when what he did before Seattle has no bearing on what and who he is now, THAT is the side choosing blindly to beat a certain drum.

I have said over and over again and posted facts to support it that NO QB in the league has done more with less the last two years and it doenst matter. The same arguments are made.

If all it is is that a person doesnt like a guy no matter what , thats cool. Then just dont spin persoanl feelings into a debate when there is no chance your mind will change and call someone else unreasonabe. And I am not calling you out, just speaking generally, because you hear over and over again - 'God forbid someone says anything bad about Geno '. When thats not the case. I can point to a ton of analytical vids, assessments, tape reviews, etc where football folks outside of .net look at geno's game and say pretty plainly he's made mistakes but is playing extrememly good ball on a team that seems determined to shoot itself in the foot enough to lose again and again. Assessments that point to the INTs and remark on them with an asterisk, given how few were actually poor decision and poor throws. Why? because not all INTS are cretaed equal. Just as quarterback ratings can be misleading because of how litte data they pull from, INTs and TDs for that matter can be misleading without the context to show how they occured.

Incredibly frustrating to constantly have deep, solid analysis ignored in favor of surface level narrative.

As if that wasn't bad enough, we then get routine insults claiming that we're not being objective. And it's endorsed.

 

[Sperrydogg]

He's just plain not at the level of Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson etc. It's not close. People are going to believe what they want to believe, and I respect that.
I just don't agree, that's all. He's above average, can be damn good, but can also be pretty damn bad. He will never be on the level of those guys, ever. But he's a solid fit for THIS team. I expect more from the starting QB, and yes he is working behind a sh** o line, much of the time. He's probably not as good as many make him out to be, all while not being as bad as others make him out to be. He's in the middle somewhere, slightly above average. In that 12-15 range. Hopefully trending up.

I'm hoping Sunday was a huge boost. Not just for him, but for entire team.

Allen Jackson hahaha