Geno Smith the headcase

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm still trying to not laugh about "he's not quite Josh Allen"

Not quite?? Not even close to the level of Allen or Burrow.

 

[Ozzy]

Forget the metrics and believe your eyes.

Geno has all the needed talent to be a top level QB except when he whigs out from pass rush pressure or whatever other distraction

When he’s hot, he‘s hot; until he flakes out for whatever reason and then he’s a head case. Metrics have him a mid-level QB with elite tendencies.

Will he ever be more? Rather doubt it, as time is his enemy and his history argues against him becoming more.

He’s incredibly frustrating to watch as one minute you say good play and then Gee-No!

I vote head case with huge determination to be more than that.

Actually I think you nailed it. Mid level with elite tendencies is completely fair.

 

[knownone]

Are you serious? I made the argument that people around the league have him in the 10-20 range and you said that’s false. It’s you who is being intentionally obtuse here not me. You implied exactly what I said you did and when proven wrong you do exactly what you’re doing now. I’m done arguing with you, you do this every single time.

I’ll just concede. Geno is just slightly below Allen and Burrow. I’m sure all the analytics community agrees with that too.

Nope. You lied and you haven't provided evidence to support your claim because no evidence exists. So now you are attacking my credibility. Did I say those things? No.

Look, I would have blocked you months ago if I could, but I can't because you are a moderator.

I’ll just concede. Geno is just slightly below Allen and Burrow. I’m sure all the analytics community agrees with that too.

This the perfect example of your lazy and disingenuous style of argument. You take claims out of context and you strawman them, then you treat your strawmen as fact. It is very reminiscent of Fade and Soulfish in style.

 

[Ozzy]

I lied? Anyone can go back and read our exchanges. Go back and read it. You’re being obtuse because you know you’re wrong. You know exactly what you implied and what we were talking about. I just did and it’s all still there.

You’ve been called out by multiple people for your posting style. Maybe it’s not everyone else but you? And if you would’ve blocked me why do you always respond every single time I post about Geno? You can ignore it right?

Also quit with the personal attacks to not one but 3 posters in a single post.

No one attacked you other than disagreeing with you, the fact you felt the need to default to that sort of proves my point. Again you can disagree with me, Soulfish or anyone else but no need to call people liars. Stick to the topic

 

[Ozzy]

And the last comment? Come on man it was a light teasing. Quit taking everything so personally. I joked about your comment calling Geno not quite Allen. No one attacked you yet you chose to.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'm surprised this turned into a ridiculous shitshow.

Everything I stated in the OP is pretty inarguable, and it's mostly about the facts of what Geno has overcome to be in the position he's in now.

Why can we not celebrate a redemption arc anymore? Geno should absolutely be commended for the work he's done to get to this point, even if you do think the team should move away from him for 2025.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Has Geno ever passed for 4TD's in a game?

 

[Maelstrom787]

Has Geno ever passed for 4TD's in a game?

Nope. 7 games with 3 touchdowns. One of 8 quarterbacks to have a 30TD season since 2022.

 

[knownone]

I lied? Anyone can go back and read our exchanges. Go back and read it. You’re being obtuse because you know you’re wrong. You know exactly what you implied and what we were talking about. I just did and it’s all still there.

You’ve been called out by multiple people for your posting style. Maybe it’s not everyone else but you? And if you would’ve blocked me why do you always respond every single time I post about Geno? You can ignore it right?

Also quit with the personal attacks to not one but 3 posters in a single post.

No one attacked you other than disagreeing with you, the fact you felt the need to default to that sort of proves my point. Again you can disagree with me, Soulfish or anyone else but no need to call people liars. Stick to the topic

Then quote it. You've read them. Surely you can quote them.

you said I can’t be taken seriously because people around the league obviously value Geno higher than I do at 10-20.

 

[knownone]

And the last comment? Come on man it was a light teasing. Quit taking everything so personally. I joked about your comment calling Geno not quite Allen. No one attacked you yet you chose to.

I didn't take it personally.

If I said, "My wife is not quite Heidi Klum, but she's beautiful and charming," and you interpret that as, "My wife is slightly below Heidi Klum in beauty and charm," It's a goofy stretch and misrepresentation. But by all means, tease away—lower the hoop so you can dunk on it.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Your dislike for the guy vs adoration for his predecessor is comical. You ALWAYS have to caveat anything he does with an *.

Simple way to put this issue to rest. Name me one single qb in the history of the league who EVER managed to get a team with a bottom 3 online, defense and rushing attack to a winning record, let alone the playoffs. If you can do that, theres an argument to be had.

Should be simple as I didn't say in the last 10 or 20 years. Ever, in history is fine.

Or, you can just tell me what team in league history had a bottom 3 rushing attack, bottom 3 o line, and bottom 3 defense and managed to finish with a winning record. If there has ever been one other than our Seahawks i dont know it, and if there ever was, i GUARANTEE you it didnt have an average player at QB.

I have said this a million times. In no universe does an 'average' qb play on a team with the worst running game, worst defense, worst o line, and manage to get his team to a winning record. You wont find one ever.

And Geno isnt him now. Because its simply not possible. You dont add average to horrible and get 'better than average'.

And you are calling Mael's post 'over the top'?

The constant effort to qualify every good thing the dude does is the only thing that's over the top.

The Niners game was FAR from his best game. We have lost games that we should have won because of TDs that were called back, TD catches that were not made, drives that were stalled because of drops, INTs caused by poor routes and penalties FAR more often than Geno has been the cause.

Yet you seem to forget how many times those things have occured and choose only to recall when he 'screws up'. Even when neutral parties, not even associated with .net reviewing film summarize the INts that he's made as more often than not, not entirely his fault.

As Mael said, we have one of the grittiest qbs in the league slinging the ball for us. Coaches have said it. His teammates hail him for it. Nothing mael stated hasnt been echoed a hundred times by the guys that coach him or play alongside him.

Grubb just this week went so far as to say that Geno is elite and as good as it gets when the line gives him time. That there isnt a single throw he cant make.

Macdonald just sunnarized Geno's play as not being any different than what he has been doing and has repeatedly called 'Geno's mistakes as 'team' errors as much as anything else.

At some point folks just have to come to grips with the fact that Geno is a very very good qb.

Hes only average in the world of fantasy football.

Keyword there being 'fantasy'.

He's a bit too "Hood" for a lot of people. Imagine the contract he would get on the open market if he was 30 instead of 36 or whatever he is. The steelers would be deadly with Geno. The Lions would be at worst the same, likely a bit better cause he moves better than Goff.

 

[OrangeGravy]

The argument you continue to use for Geno is old and tiresome. You act as if no other QB in the history of the league is capable of replicating what Geno has done with the bad lines, defenses, and coaching and it's just nonsense. If Geno Smith is so special, why did he sit for so many years behind other QB's (QB's that haven't done what your looking for) and why has he had nothing but an average career overall? Again, he's a solid QB, but nothing special in the scope of NFL QB's. I'm not capping on the guy as he has performed pretty well, but he isn't God's gift to the QB position either.

There's a gap the size of the grand canyon between your "pretty well" and "God's gift".

 

[OrangeGravy]

I'm not saying he is the problem, but he isn't the answer either. I don't think he has what it takes for the post season even with a good Oline and good defense. Too many mental gaffes and inconsistencies in his game. People want to put him on a pedestal that he never had rights to in the first place.

I'm not going to get into the arguing of stats for a QB that throws as much as Smith. Sure he has a ton of yards, but how is his TD/INT ratio or his redzone numbers? Also why isnt he leading any categories if he's so great?

Again, he's a good QB, but not great. Why is that so hard to understand?

How many great QBs do you think there are?

 

[Spin Doctor]

I'm not the highest on Geno Smith, but he is the best that we have at the moment. We cannot replace him with anyone better in the FA or the draft immediately.

This is the infuriating part for fans. He's clearly not a top tier passer and he's on the wrong end of 30. The potential isn't there and the star power isn't there. What you get is what you're going to get. A solid QB that perhaps becomes a bit of a burden if you give him a huge contract. The issue here is that we don't have anyone capable of replacing him, so we're stuck with a Kirk Cousins sort of character. Not that Cousins is a bad QB, it's just he was always just "alright", nothing offensive about him, but nothing really stood out. Good bulk stats, but lacking in certain areas. Not bad enough to replace, but not good enough to seal the deal, despite being on some good teams.

This is Geno. He has some elite tendencies as someone else pointed out, but the overall execution is sometimes head scratching.

Geno has elite accuracy and his poise in the pocket is really good. Between the 20s he is a killer, but once you get into the redzone, he's consistently had one of the worst redzone offenses in the NFL. His redzone stats also look pretty bad across all 3 years he has been here. He struggles to convert those yards into TDs. That is a huge problem and his biggest liability. This is despite having DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett, one of the better WR corps in the NFL, in addition to JSN as well.

Geno Smith also has had a tendency to disappear midseason, this has been a trend that is now running on three years. His numbers and overall play was pretty pedestrian after the midpoint of his first season. The same thing has happened during the last season. He's just hasn't been that consistent over a whole year yet.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Where did I say this?

Oh, that's right. I said nothing of that sort. I never once made a comment about "people around the league," or "taking you seriously." I talked about the football world, in general, mentioning specifically the analytics community—I even named them explicitly. So what should I believe? Is it comprehension or is it intentional?

I think there needs to be an Aptitude test before handing out moderator flair

 

[keasley45]

He's a bit too "Hood" for a lot of people. Imagine the contract he would get on the open market if he was 30 instead of 36 or whatever he is. The steelers would be deadly with Geno. The Lions would be at worst the same, likely a bit better cause he moves better than Goff.

Yup. But the thing is, he's not even 'hood'. The dude is extremely intelligent. From what I've read, he's a stand-up guy in every way. Great teammate. Great leader. He just did this interview with Sherm and i personally don't see what folks dont like about him. Its a good watch / listen.



Even former teammate Greg Olson commented sunday that he was impressed with Geno as a leader and a qb when he was here, saying he was incredibly accurate,... talented...

Ive said it before, if it was Burrow here, or Herbert putting up the exact same numbers, the tone from some would be different, entirely.

Its just that its Geno doing it thats the issue.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I answered that question in the very post you quoted.

As far as I can see, the only one saying that he “has been doing things that no other QB’s could ever possibly do,” is you, in setting up your superlative straw man.

Keasely says "hold my beer". I guess you skimmed over the part where it's being asked to name any QB that's had such a terrible Oline, defense, and running game he had to play with.

 

[TheLost]

Geno has done enough to earn another contract with the Seahawks and its fans. There is not a scenario where I see us being able to draft better than him in the near future.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Youve managed to respond twice now without answering the question.

When in the history of the league has an average qb taken a team with a league worst defense, running game and o line and gotten them a winning record?

You wont answer it will you?

Because you cant

Because it defies logic.

And I used about the exact same scale the FO did when they paid him as the 12th best qb in the game.

You wanna play quoted? Here's one:

Among QBs who were pressured at least 50 times last year, only one QB had an On-Target rate in the top five, while also having one of the five lowest sack rates when pressured, per SIS:

Geno Smith

So how do all of the 'he is not great under pressure criticisms sit when he was the only qb in the league to do the above?

Answer? Again , not well.

Are you familiar with the adjusted completion percentage rate? In 2022, the year he was league best in completion percentage, it was 77.4. Last year, the year he 'regressed' so much it was 77.8.

That number adjusts for passes that SHOULD have been completed (accurate) but for no fault of the QB, weren't. So when you take away the drops, the dude has been top 5 accurate since becoming a starter. Better than Purdy, Mahomes, Goff, Herbert, Stafford, etc, etc, etc.

So to add to the question about how an average qb takes a team with bottom 3 D, O line and running game to a winning record, also please explain how despite being average, he manager to finish at an elite level in terms of accuracy.

'AVERAGE' qbs dont lead the league in that category when they ARENT pressured.

But to your insistence that he's the 18th ot 19th best QB, who are the 3 qbs above and below him and hiw do they rank in accuracy? How many of those '15 to 20' qbs are top 5 in ANY category.

I dont even have to look because the answer woukd be zero.

And thats because you insist on flat ignoring the fact that Geno plays with

One of the leagues worst lines

One of the leagues worst run games

And

One of the leagues worst defenses ( averaged over 3 years now)

Your denial of the impact THOSE factors have on the performance of a QB and ignoring of the fact that Geno, when thise factors are taken into account (in addition to drops) is top 5 in terms of accuracy makes any critique you bring of the dude seem silly.

IF ANYTHING, in playing with the tools he has between the line, D and run game, we have seen the WORST of Geno. The best id TBD and will be shown when thise other parts improve.

Keasley, he's ranked in the 12-19 range because of all the stats you ignore. You mention his accuracy, but refuse to mention the passes that should have been intercepted or his piss poor redzone efficiency. There's more stats than just accuracy and yardage, but it doesn't paint Geno in a good light so I understand you not bringing them up.

Also, about the line and the defense and the running game and your plea to name other QB's that have played under the same circumstances,,,,,,,I don't know if any other QB played under those situations because i've never bothered to look, but the question remains, do you honestly believe Geno Smith is the only QB capable of doing the things he has done? Honestly? And let's just be real and get this out of the way,,,,,,do you think the weapons Smith has helps him out some?

Again with the winning record thing. I guess 9-8 is technically a winning record, but it's as close to average as you can get in todays NFL with the extra game. It's not that impressive. It's such a weak accomplishment that it got an entire coaching staff canned after two years of it, but by all means, you can keep hanging on that as some type of triumph.

 

[Ozzy]

Then quote it. You've read them. Surely you can quote them.

You know what you implied and again you’re being obtuse.