Geno Smith the headcase

[keasley45]

No

Why has the team been behind so often since 2022?

Two winning seasons at 9-8 due to an extra game sprinkled in. As close to average as a record can be.

What has he overcome? He was handed the starting job after the actual starter left and has responded with two mediocre seasons and a post season loss.

Yeah Burrow is 4-7. Ask anybody who they would rather have QBing their team between Burrow and Geno Smith and Burrow would win that every single time. Guys been in the league for 4 years and has already been to a Super Bowl while Geno Smith hasen't even won a post season game in his entire career.

Josh Allen? No Super Bowl but always a threat and plenty of playoff wins. Better than Smith? Of course he is. He's already throttled Geno and Seattle this year.

Mahomes? Good lord. Yeah Patrick isn't putting up Patrick Mahomes numbers, but does that mean he can't? The world knows what he can do when he's asked to ramp it up. Not sure why the best QB in the league was even mentioned.

I'll agree with you on something though, yes Geno Smith has come as close as he can to his limits,,,,,,,that's the problem here.

How much does the worst defense, bottom 2 running game and bottom 5 o line contribute to the a 9-8 record?

And that happened both years he started.

And if the FO tbought he was incapable of making us better than .500, why was he retained and the entire coaching staff let go.

Would love to hear your answer.

 

[pittpnthrs]

ok Pitt - read this and respond if you would.... because the numbers basically shoot holes in your Anti-Geno agenda..... The O-line sucks

Opinions are like ....... everyone has one.

Just don't quite get the hand wringing over whether Geno is the right QB.... He is not a Top 5, future HOF'er. But let's just look at the data.....

Hawks - 2nd best Passing team in the league - 261 ypg
10th in total offense
Geno - 4th in total passing yards - 2781
Geno - 7th in completion pct - 69%
Geno - tied for 5th with 18 dropped passes by receivers

BUT......
28th in Rushing offense - 91 ypg
4th most sacks allowed - 32
Defense - 22nd in yards allowed - 350ypg - bottom 1/3rd in the league
3rd most penalized team in the league - 2nd most offensive holding calls &
tied for 3rd with most false starts

What the DATA says is this..... Geno is NOT the problem. The below avg offensive line is the problem. Drive killers - sacks, holding calls and false starts. Seattle is one of the worst teams in the league when it comes to those three things. K9 is a hell of a back. But this O-line is garbage. So it all falls on Geno's shoulders. The defense is bottom 1/3rd in the league. So basically anyone that has the OPINION that Geno is the issue.... i just chuckle at.

I'm not saying he is the problem, but he isn't the answer either. I don't think he has what it takes for the post season even with a good Oline and good defense. Too many mental gaffes and inconsistencies in his game. People want to put him on a pedestal that he never had rights to in the first place.

I'm not going to get into the arguing of stats for a QB that throws as much as Smith. Sure he has a ton of yards, but how is his TD/INT ratio or his redzone numbers? Also why isnt he leading any categories if he's so great?

Again, he's a good QB, but not great. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Appyhawk]

View attachment 68167
The idea that quarterbacks alone are capable of "making their own circumstances" is an utterly fanciful view of the sport that ignores the basic reality of football being a team sport.

However, if you're looking for a quarterback who HAS made their own circumstances to as large of a degree as any other:

How about the league leader in game winning drives since 2022?

How about the guy who has quarterbacked 2 winning seasons despite every other unit of his team being putrid?

How about the guy who has continually overcome circumstances in which the deck was stacked against him and still is here leading comeback victories?

Sorry, but there's a line here. No quarterback does it all. Every single one needs support. Burrow is 4-7 right now. Allen has never won a Super Bowl despite having way better performance around him. Patrick Mahomes has paltry production right now but his team is winning because their defense is fantastic and the offense is doing enough.

There is a hard limit to "making your own circumstances" as an NFL quarterback, and Geno Smith has gotten as close to those limits as anyone else in the league.

Edited by Appy

You make some good points Mael, but your last line is unaccptable.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You have comprehension issues.

“If Geno Smith is so special, why did he sit for so many years behind other QB's”

Old. Tired. Can’t play by the expectations you had of Mael. After doing that, nothing further you say on the topic is to be taken seriously. You aren’t debating in good faith you are debating from your rump.

Yeah but nobody ever wants to answer that question, especially after all the drooling and admiration some have for him. To hear some of you talk, he's the greatest QB to ever play the game with results and stipulations that are never his fault.

 

[pittpnthrs]

No

How much does the worst defense, bottom 2 running game and bottom 5 o line contribute to the a 9-8 record?

And that happened both years he started.

And if the FO tbought he was incapable of making us better than .500, why was he retained and the entire coaching staff let go.

Would love to hear your answer.

Sure i'll answer but let's address the elephant in the room first, Geno started for two years and the coaching staff got canned. Why is that if what he has done is so darned great?

The simple answer for why he was retained is that he's cheap with no market value and he's good enough as a stop gap right now that other areas are being dealt with first.

 

[keasley45]

Look at the advanced metrics on INT's under duress. When you don't have time to throw, you're forced to make early throws, or on the run. There were so many times yesterday where Geno was just getting to his SECOND read before being sacked or forced out of the pocket. His completion% since taking over the starting job has been one of the best in the league. His sack rate is through the roof though. If he had a top 10 Oline, and time to get through his progressions, his numbers would be eye popping. I do agree though that he should run more. With this Oline- it should be 2-3 reads then take off.

Too many facts and too much logic.

Its as if the FACT that qbs need time to throw and a complimentary running game is lost on Geno's critics.

The less time you have to throw, the higher the likelihood of negative plays, the more INTs, the more sacks, the fewer points scored.

And Geno has been among the most pressure QBs in the league and is still the virtually the only reason we win games.

And yet statemements like ' before yesterday, he woukdnt have been abke to come back from the INT he threw '..

What? It was just 2 weeks ago against the Rams that he was turned over 3 times and he still drove down the field, tossing darts, tied the game and then drove us down in OT for what could have been the game winning score.

Goff throws 5 picks and does what he has to to come back and win with a team and coaches that do their part to complete the job and is a hero. Geno throws 3 picks, brings his team back to win, puts them in position and his coaches and team dont do their part and folks call for him to be benched.

Hmm.

The only game we havent had a chance to win at the end was the Bills game and even in that one, he had a snap go 3 feet over his head and on another, was stepped on coming out from under center. Both of those drives would have yielded some points, whether 6 or 14. That happens, different ball game.

 

[keasley45]

Sure i'll answer but let's address the elephant in the room first, Geno started for two years and the coaching staff got canned. Why is that if what he has done is so darned great?

The simple answer for why he was retained is that he's cheap with no market value and he's good enough as a stop gap right now that other areas are being dealt with first.

You didnt answer anything.

If Geno was average he would be gone.

And again - what average qb gets added to one of the worst o lines in the league, the worst defense, and one of the worst running games and manages to pull out a winning record?

When in the history of the NFL has it happened?

One more time - you dont add average to horrible and get 'abive average'

9-8 is above average by every definition of the word.

Our o line, defense and running game have been horrible.

So what does that make Geno

Simple deductive reasoning, bro.

But just answer the question.

 

[keasley45]

Sure i'll answer but let's address the elephant in the room first, Geno started for two years and the coaching staff got canned. Why is that if what he has done is so darned great?

The simple answer for why he was retained is that he's cheap with no market value and he's good enough as a stop gap right now that other areas are being dealt with first.

The coaching staff got canned for reasons thatbare becoming obvious. Are they not.

An inability to scheme am offense, defense, or harness the potential of the team.

And even with a dead coaching staff, horrid D, o line and running game, the QB of the team finished 12th.

Again... here are the facts that you need to explain...

A coaching staff that was fired. Completely. Except for 1 guy.

A defense that was the worst in the league

And o line that was 28th.

A running game that was 29th.

... and btw , an OC that just got fired AGAIN... 10 months later.

And the qb finished 12th and set the NFL record for 4th qtr comebacks.

How does that happen if the qb is average??

This is comical

 

[Maelstrom787]

You make some good points Mael, but your last line is unaccptable.

Heh, that one's fair.

 

[JustTheTip]

Geno is Geno. I don't think anybody who wants to see Howell actually thinks he is any better. I think some people just want to see what he is so the team can figure out the way forward. I don't think it is quite time for that yet, but I am in the camp that doesn't think Geno is anything more than a stopgap. He has elite tools but doesn't look elite often enough to believe he is our future at 34. He is way too erratic and I don't see that changing at this stage of his career.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You didnt answer anything.

If Geno was average he would be gone.

And again - what average qb gets added to one of the worst o lines in the league, the worst defense, and one of the worst running games and manages to pull out a winning record?

When in the history of the NFL has it happened?

One more time - you dont add average to horrible and get 'abive average'

9-8 is above average by every definition of the word.

Our o line, defense and running game have been horrible.

So what does that make Geno

Simple deductive reasoning, bro.

But just answer the question.

Lol. No, he wouldn't be gone because there were no alternatives. His contract came up and nobody was interested in him and Seattle signed him for a team friendly deal while they rebuild. Why were no other teams interested and why did he get paid so little?

You keep throwing out the winning record puke when its as close as a team can possibly be to average or .500. 9-8 isnt some remarkable achievement. Its average.

And let me ask you a question. You seem so amazed at what Geno has accomplished in his two years of starting. Like he's a miracle worker or something. Do you think any QB in past history or currently could have replicated what Geno has done the past two seasons under the same circumstances? I don't believe you do. I on the other hand could list a page full. Just because other QB's haven't had to do something that Geno did doesn't mean they couldn't.

9-8 no matter how grandoise you try to make it makes Geno and the team he was on look,,,,,average.

 

[Glasgow Seahawk]

I'm not saying he is the problem, but he isn't the answer either. I don't think he has what it takes for the post season even with a good Oline and good defense. Too many mental gaffes and inconsistencies in his game. People want to put him on a pedestal that he never had rights to in the first place.

I'm not going to get into the arguing of stats for a QB that throws as much as Smith. Sure he has a ton of yards, but how is his TD/INT ratio or his redzone numbers? Also why isnt he leading any categories if he's so great?

Again, he's a good QB, but not great. Why is that so hard to understand?

He's fine for now though. We aren't going on a deep play off run yet. In a year or 2 if the defence keeps improving and we can beef up the o-line in the draft then it's maybe a different story.

 

[pittpnthrs]

The coaching staff got canned for reasons thatbare becoming obvious. Are they not.

An inability to scheme am offense, defense, or harness the potential of the team.

And even with a dead coaching staff, horrid D, o line and running game, the QB of the team finished 12th.

Again... here are the facts that you need to explain...

A coaching staff that was fired. Completely. Except for 1 guy.

A defense that was the worst in the league

And o line that was 28th.

A running game that was 29th.

... and btw , an OC that just got fired AGAIN... 10 months later.

And the qb finished 12th and set the NFL record for 4th qtr comebacks.

How does that happen if the qb is average??

This is comical

The coaching staff got canned for reasons thatbare becoming obvious. Are they not.

An inability to scheme am offense, defense, or harness the potential of the team.

And even with a dead coaching staff, horrid D, o line and running game, the QB of the team finished 12th.

Again... here are the facts that you need to explain...

A coaching staff that was fired. Completely. Except for 1 guy.

A defense that was the worst in the league

And o line that was 28th.

A running game that was 29th.

... and btw , an OC that just got fired AGAIN... 10 months later.

And the qb finished 12th and set the NFL record for 4th qtr comebacks.

How does that happen if the qb is average??

This is comical

12th by who's admission? I've seen a million lists and he's ranked right about the 15 to 19 spot (about right). Coaching staff was fired because the owner was tired of average 9-8 seasons. Shocking I know.

4th quarter comebacks? Good for him, but with more opportunities there's more chances.

And what does being ranked #12 even mean? I thought nobody else in the NFL could do what Geno did. Does being #12 mean that at least 11 others can?

Here's a quote that describes Geno perfectly.

Smith spent most of 2023 defining the Dalton Scale, occupying the space that separates teams who have a playoff-worthy quarterback from those who don’t. It was a step down for Smith after he posted a career year that was so impressive, it prompted the Buccaneers to hire his quarterbacks coach as their offensive coordinator. Smith simply wasn’t as good as without Dave Canales in his corner, vacillating between a quarterback who could light up a defense and lead Seattle to victory and a signal-caller who couldn’t string together enough great throws to be anything more than the representation of the NFL’s quarterbacking median. The contract he earned in 2022 doesn’t look bad yet, but Smith needs to be better in 2024 to convince Seattle they don’t need to look elsewhere for options.

 

[pittpnthrs]

He's fine for now though. We aren't going on a deep play off run yet. In a year or 2 if the defence keeps improving and we can beef up the o-line in the draft then it's maybe a different story.

Absolutely. but are we ever going to really get to see that? Geno is no spring chicken. I for one would like to see it though just to prove points. Maybe i'm wrong with my opinions, but I don't think so.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

 

[CallMeADawg]

Yeah but nobody ever wants to answer that question, especially after all the drooling and admiration some have for him. To hear some of you talk, he's the greatest QB to ever play the game with results and stipulations that are never his fault.

There’s no point in responding to that.

In this thread there is a mountain of information and data that others have presented quite well, that you continue to blissfully ignore.

Try coming out of your vacuum for a day or two. The real world isn’t as scary as you must think it is.

 

[Ozzy]

Ok so Mael, Callmedawg, Keasely where do you have Geno ranked? If any criticism of him is "terrible" where is he? The argument comes across like hes a top 3-5 guy in the NFL, is that where you have him ranked?

I still argue hes in the 12-17 range which is where Passer rating, QBR, Baldwins advance grading system(which accounts for line play) etc all have him ranked. If you have some good things around him he can play at a slightly higher level too. So basically, he's a good QB. He's not great and he's not terrible. He can make spectacular plays and at times he makes rookie type mistakes as well, that's who he is. I don't think anyone is saying he is the problem with this team or that he's even near the top of the list.

Also let's tone down the personal stuff and just have fun with the debate.

 

[pittpnthrs]

There’s no point in responding to that.

In this thread there is a mountain of information and data that others have presented quite well, that you continue to blissfully ignore.

Try coming out of your vacuum for a day or two. The real world isn’t as scary as you must think it is.

Lol, the mountain of information and data is cherry picked to make him look good while the other half never gets presented. I know you want to defend your 11 TD/11 INT phenom, but come on.

 

[Ozzy]

That’s the thing you can twist this data to say what you want. Passer rating, QBR, NFELO, Baldwin metric etc have Geno squarely in the 12-20 range. Those don’t count because they don’t fit the narrative. ADOT? Yep it counts because it does.

Geno is an odd case as he can confirm anyone’s priors. That’s why people getting wildly upset if you don’t think he’s great is off base to me.

The “mountain of information” in no way paints the picture Geno is great. It just doesn’t. It does show he does some things really well and I don’t think anyone disputes that.

 

[bigskydoc]

Why weren't those QB's getting displaced (might as well throw Wilson into the mix too)? Evidently, Geno has been doing things that no other QB's could ever possibly do. Well, according to some anyways.

I answered that question in the very post you quoted.

As far as I can see, the only one saying that he “has been doing things that no other QB’s could ever possibly do,” is you, in setting up your superlative straw man.