Geno looked crazy good tonight

[chrispy]

I like Geno. I think he's the right fit for the Seahawks. He's taken cheaper deals which has allowed more young talent than we've had in a while. If he required the cap hit of Mahomes, we'd be a much worse team.

He's also only been a real starter for 2 seasons. In those 2 seasons he's been better that anyone realistically expected. He's an old man, which endears him to me, but doesn't justify judging a 2 yr starter against some of the best QBs ever.

He's definitely "elevated the team" because he beat he predecessor head-to-head in his first game and it would be a laughable argument that the team would be better with his back-up. The Seahawks got better with him... so that's kind of the definition of the word "elevated". The argument is only if the extent of the elevation is enough to satisfy a particular person.

Even if he led the team to a Championship this season and next v the Chiefs, no one would argue he's better than Mahomes. That's a false foundation for any premise.

I'm excited to see how he does this season. I think he'll do really well. Next off-season, I expect the exact same discussion with a few different numbers.

 

[pittpnthrs]

It's like the Lions. They, realistically, should've been in the Super Bowl over SF - and I remain unconvinced that Goff is a superior talent to Geno Smith. I think Geno would be as good as or better than Jared Goff if provided the Detroit Lions supporting cast, featuring an absolute wall of an OL, Amon-Ra, and their great rushing game.

Goff is a mystery to me. I never thought he was that good, but the last few years he's opened my eyes some. He's not fancy, but he's a baller.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I like Geno. I think he's the right fit for the Seahawks. He's taken cheaper deals which has allowed more young talent than we've had in a while. If he required the cap hit of Mahomes, we'd be a much worse team.

He's also only been a real starter for 2 seasons. In those 2 seasons he's been better that anyone realistically expected. He's an old man, which endears him to me, but doesn't justify judging a 2 yr starter against some of the best QBs ever.

He's definitely "elevated the team" because he beat he predecessor head-to-head in his first game and it would be a laughable argument that the team would be better with his back-up. The Seahawks got better with him... so that's kind of the definition of the word "elevated". The argument is only if the extent of the elevation is enough to satisfy a particular person.

Even if he led the team to a Championship this season and next v the Chiefs, no one would argue he's better than Mahomes. That's a false foundation for any premise.

I'm excited to see how he does this season. I think he'll do really well. Next off-season, I expect the exact same discussion with a few different numbers.

He's not bad by any means and he's playing the stop gap role really well. I just don't think he's as good as a lot of others do. I have zero confidence in him. The thing that's really upsetting me is the lack of a QBotF right now. I see no path yet for that. Howell isn't it, but he's a solid backup. I just feel the teams going to be in a void for awhile due to the QB position.

 

[Double Tribble]

Yeah, Russ was great at getting us out of situations that HE got us into. I've posted the numbers before so I won't go digging for them again, but Russ SUCKED in the first and third quarters. At one point we had a 20 game streak going of not scoring a TD in the first drive of the game. The fact that Russ had a great defense supporting him for much of his career is what allowed him to have those amazing rabbit-out-of-hat comebacks.

There are very few QBs that I'd rather have running my team at the end of a game than 4th quarter Russ in his prime. But the fact is, we needed those comebacks because we were behind in most games, whoevers fault that was (Pete, Schotty, Russ)

That's a good point, and one I forgot about. You're right about him coming from behind a lot. But, at least he was able to more often than not.

 

[Double Tribble]

He's not bad by any means and he's playing the stop gap role really well. I just don't think he's as good as a lot of others do. I have zero confidence in him. The thing that's really upsetting me is the lack of a QBotF right now. I see no path yet for that. Howell isn't it, but he's a solid backup. I just feel the teams going to be in a void for awhile due to the QB position.

This x 1000% The lack of urgency to address this is baffling to me, unless they think Howell is it...

 

[Ozzy]

Who did he make better ? Baldwin and the receivers doing the scramble drill bailed him out more then the designed plays. Lynch the most contact in the backfield for multiple years running making yards out of nothing. He never or rarely used the TE, in fact the reason being he needed the extra blockers. The defense holding teams close and getting turnovers made him look good. So who elevated who, yes he made the games exciting with his hero ball concept, he also caused heart attacks and strokes to increase in Seattle fans by probably 100 percent. I did say that Petes game management was probably 65 percent or so of the issue.

I don't know man when we had one of the worst run offenses in the history of the league and he still put up monster numbers he had to be doing something right? You also don't think Wilson's legs and play making ability didn't move the needle at all for Lynch even though his yards per carry went up half a yard? His best receiver was an undrafted player and no high end draft picks. He had to do something right? I know I'm not changing your mind as you feel Russ was trash and you're entitled to it I just think the idea we won 10 games every year even after the LOB left and you think Russ had absolutely nothing to do with it is crazy talk. To each their own.

 

[Ozzy]

For those with simple minds probably, but many things have layers to them and you need to peel them back to get the real picture and answers.

Come on man, claiming everyone who disagrees is essentially stupid is ridiculous.

 

[chrispy]

He's not bad by any means and he's playing the stop gap role really well. I just don't think he's as good as a lot of others do. I have zero confidence in him. The thing that's really upsetting me is the lack of a QBotF right now. I see no path yet for that. Howell isn't it, but he's a solid backup. I just feel the teams going to be in a void for awhile due to the QB position.

To me, and probably only me..., the future in the NFL is really only a season or 2. Anything can happen. A 3rd round pick can win the starting job and a HOFer can rupture an achilles. If the future is 2 seasons, we're set up with a QB room that has a good/better-than-average/getting better... (whatever post in the above thread you agree with) starter in Geno and a back-up that's been described as "the best backup in the league" but maybe just pretty good and definitely someone that can win a few if they have to start unexpectedly. To me, that's a better plan for QBotf than we've had in about 10 years or more.

If a plan for QBotf is to get a top 5 pick and definitely hit on it with a QB, you're right, we don't have that plan. Of course, that plan has been proven to really suck a lot of the time. I think JS has described his plan numerous times and we're now seeing it play out. He's showing us the Green Bay method that he's talked about for years and he's already seeing positive gains.

Lastly, it also occurs to me that it's pretty easy to say something's not working because we haven't won a SB but there's also no suggestion for a different route.... That's not a knock on anyone specifically in this thread. I'm just saying that it was pretty brilliant to dump RCW the way it turned out. It was pretty great to end up with Geno when it could have been much worse. It seems pretty smart (now that we've seen him in pre-season) to have picked up Howell. I'm really interested, actually interested... not just trying to make a point, what other steps others might have taken or might take here forward to get a particular QB?

 

[Double Tribble]

To me, and probably only me..., the future in the NFL is really only a season or 2. Anything can happen. A 3rd round pick can win the starting job and a HOFer can rupture an achilles. If the future is 2 seasons, we're set up with a QB room that has a good/better-than-average/getting better... (whatever post in the above thread you agree with) starter in Geno and a back-up that's been described as "the best backup in the league" but maybe just pretty good and definitely someone that can win a few if they have to start unexpectedly. To me, that's a better plan for QBotf than we've had in about 10 years or more.

If a plan for QBotf is to get a top 5 pick and definitely hit on it with a QB, you're right, we don't have that plan. Of course, that plan has been proven to really suck a lot of the time. I think JS has described his plan numerous times and we're now seeing it play out. He's showing us the Green Bay method that he's talked about for years and he's already seeing positive gains.

Lastly, it also occurs to me that it's pretty easy to say something's not working because we haven't won a SB but there's also no suggestion for a different route.... That's not a knock on anyone specifically in this thread. I'm just saying that it was pretty brilliant to dump RCW the way it turned out. It was pretty great to end up with Geno when it could have been much worse. It seems pretty smart (now that we've seen him in pre-season) to have picked up Howell. I'm really interested, actually interested... not just trying to make a point, what other steps others might have taken or might take here forward to get a particular QB?

^Actually drafting one would be a good start.

 

[Ad Hawk]

^Actually drafting one would be a good start.

I find it interesting that Geno survived the change of leadership. That speaks to his ability (for this season, at lease) in MM's eyes; for some of you, that should seriously mar his reputation as a solid coach.

But if not Geno--and Howell may not be that guy, either--then where do we go?

1. Who do suggest coming up in this next year's draft that would fill that role, QBotF, and definitively so? Or do we trade and give the entire farm for a vet?
2. If drafted, what round can such a player be picked, and do we have the draft capital to move up if necessary?
3. What happens if such a player ends up being a Trey Lance bust?
4. If the team aims high for a QB and whiffs, how long will the team be set back from another chance?
5. Even worse, perhaps, what if said player ends up another "Geno Smith" type? How many seasons should we stick with such a player?

In my opinion, the QBotF talk ignores some simple facts: nobody on this board or even in Front Offices knows exactly who will be the next sure-thing QB. Secondly, just because we identify someone we like does not mean the player can become ours. And there's no telling what kind of player he'll be.

 

[chrispy]

^Actually drafting one would be a good start.

Right...so which one at 16, and how do you address the interior DL? Honestly asking....

 

[BlueTalon]

Oh - that Stealers QB only won one super bowl.

Actually, that Stealers QB was gifted both of those SB "wins."

 

[hox]

We agree to disagree. If the roles were reversed, I see KC getting knocked out of the post season and Seattle being in the post season. It's fun to imagine Mahomes with the receiving corps the Seahawks have.

KC's defense gave up only 17 PPG last season (ranked 2nd). Seattle's offense under Geno scored 21.4 PPG with suspect play calling and a struggling o-line.

So it's not inconceivable that Geno could win in the postseason with KC's #2 ranked defense, and Reid as the play caller.

Meanwhile Seattle's defense was giving up 23.6 PPG (ranked 24th). A 24th ranked defense is not going to win a SB, no matter who the QB is.

 

[pittpnthrs]

To me, and probably only me..., the future in the NFL is really only a season or 2. Anything can happen. A 3rd round pick can win the starting job and a HOFer can rupture an achilles. If the future is 2 seasons, we're set up with a QB room that has a good/better-than-average/getting better... (whatever post in the above thread you agree with) starter in Geno and a back-up that's been described as "the best backup in the league" but maybe just pretty good and definitely someone that can win a few if they have to start unexpectedly. To me, that's a better plan for QBotf than we've had in about 10 years or more.

If a plan for QBotf is to get a top 5 pick and definitely hit on it with a QB, you're right, we don't have that plan. Of course, that plan has been proven to really suck a lot of the time. I think JS has described his plan numerous times and we're now seeing it play out. He's showing us the Green Bay method that he's talked about for years and he's already seeing positive gains.

Lastly, it also occurs to me that it's pretty easy to say something's not working because we haven't won a SB but there's also no suggestion for a different route.... That's not a knock on anyone specifically in this thread. I'm just saying that it was pretty brilliant to dump RCW the way it turned out. It was pretty great to end up with Geno when it could have been much worse. It seems pretty smart (now that we've seen him in pre-season) to have picked up Howell. I'm really interested, actually interested... not just trying to make a point, what other steps others might have taken or might take here forward to get a particular QB?

Yeah, I don't agree with season or 2 thought. It's going to take that just to try and fix the holes the team has on defense and the Oline.

Your last question is a good one. There's so many different paths and avenues to consider. The team was stuck there for awhile with Russ so i'm honestly not surehow they could have gone about it. The one thing I will admit is that JS seems to have a gift for seeing QB talent, so I trust him if he's passing on people in the draft. I feel he scooped Howell up for that backup position and that's a solid move (I don't feel he is or was ever expected to be QBofF material). I think a QB will be taken in next years draft with intentions.

 

[pittpnthrs]

KC's defense gave up only 17 PPG last season (ranked 2nd). Seattle's offense under Geno scored 21.4 PPG with suspect play calling and a struggling o-line.

So it's not inconceivable that Geno could win in the postseason with KC's #2 ranked defense, and Reid as the play caller.

Meanwhile Seattle's defense was giving up 23.6 PPG (ranked 24th). A 24th ranked defense is not going to win a SB, no matter who the QB is.

The Chiefs barely beat the Bills and the 49ers in the Super Bowl. They lose both of those games with Geno Smith as the QB. (I know they can't actually lose both but i'm taking them as independent games).

I'm never thinking Seattle could have won the Super Bowl last year with that defense no matter who the QB is, but if Geno took that team to 9-8 and within a game of the post season, Mahomes would have bettered that and at least gotten them there.

 

[themunn]

The Chiefs barely beat the Bills and the 49ers in the Super Bowl. They lose both of those games with Geno Smith as the QB. (I know they can't actually lose both but i'm taking them as independent games).

I'm never thinking Seattle could have won the Super Bowl last year with that defense no matter who the QB is, but if Geno took that team to 9-8 and within a game of the post season, Mahomes would have bettered that and at least gotten them there.

I don't know why you are continuing down this baseless Mahomes comparison. Mahomes is rightly going to go down as one of if not the best QB that ever played, we could use our first round pick on a QB every single year for the next 50 years and still never pick a guy that good. So yes, you're probably right if Mahomes was our QB we probably win an extra game or 2 last year, and maybe you're right and Geno wouldn't have won the superbowl last year if he played for the Chiefs, but I think it would be a lot closer than you think.

If Geno hadn't gotten injured and/or we hadn't put Drew Lock in against the Rams then we probably make the playoffs last year as the 6th seed- let's not forget that Geno left that game injured (and subsequently missed 2 games due to said injury) with a 9 point lead in the 4th quarter, Lock led the team to three back-to-back 3 and outs (including an interception), while the defense gave up 10 points putting us behind. An injured Geno comes in, drives us into field goal position and Myers misses the FG that could win the game. Geno then misses 2 games with an injury (having played through injury most of the season post-Ravens game). I accept that the hurry-up playcall to run the ball with 20 seconds left was a poor decision that could have gotten us closer for the FG, but given the circumstances of Lock and the defense ******* things up it's about as much as you can ask from your injured QB.

If the defense holds or Lock manages to better than three 3 and outs or Myers misses that kick we are in the playoffs against the Lions - a team we already beat (and let's be honest, none of us would have been worried about Geno in that game, it would have been whether our weak-link defense can hold out against the Lions offense - Geno was spectacular against them first time around, Myers also missing 2 FGs in that game over and above everything else). If we make it past the Lions we are up against the Bucs and that's another game we *should* have been winning last year, which means and NFC Championship game against the Niners. Doubtful we *ever* win that game with how bad our defense was, but really what I'm saying here is the difference between a potential run to the NFCCG last year and not making the playoffs came down to Geno missing 2.5 series against the Rams.

And if we had played with the Chiefs defense all year? Then sure I see us winning that Rams game, the Cowboys game, the Steelers game, and yes maybe even one of those Niners games. Instead of 9-8 on the outside we are 12-5 or 13-4 and the number 1 seed. See how easy it is to play "what could have been"?

 

[pittpnthrs]

and let's be honest, none of us would have been worried about Geno in that game

You lost me right here. I highly doubt Seattle would have beaten Detroit a second time. It was the first game of the season and Detroit had 3 turnovers and their defense wasn't sorted yet and it still took overtime for Seattle to win. They were playing way better than Seattle at the time that the post season rolled around.

 

[pittpnthrs]

what I'm saying here is the difference between a potential run to the NFCCG last year and not making the playoffs came down to Geno missing 2.5 series against the Rams.

Or he could have thrown for more than 1 TD against a Steeler team that was led by Mason Rudolph at the time. The Hawks followed that loss up with barely beating the hapless Cardinals with a lousy performance by Geno. A possible run to the NFCCG last year is a pipe dream.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Or he could have thrown for more than 1 TD against a Steeler team that was led by Mason Rudolph at the time. The Hawks followed that loss up with barely beating the hapless Cardinals with a lousy performance by Geno. A possible run to the NFCCG last year is a pipe dream.

Mason Rudolph leading the Steelers team has literally nothing to do with Geno or the teams offensive production.

Mason Rudolph leading the Steelers does however matter for the defense... which gave up over 450 yards, 202 of which were rushing yards, allowing that Steelers offense 71 plays.

Geno passed for 13 first downs. Over half of his completions were first downs. He threw multiple incredible passes after avoiding pressure. I posted the film of his completions from that game.

Where do you want that extra touchdown to come from? Directly out of his ass? Manifested out of thin air? Because he did about all he could possibly do with his arms and legs in that game, and he had already manifested quite a few plays out of thin air in that contest. Already posted a few of them in this thread.

He posted a fantastic QBR and a great passer rating. He completed 70% of his passes. He gained 314 of the teams 369 yards. He passed or ran for 14 of their 17 first downs.

Mason Rudolph accounted for less than half of the Steelers first downs because they rushed at will. Mason Rudolph only threw 24 times. The Steelers ran it 45 times, which is 4 less plays than the Seattle offense got all game.

It's really easy to say "just throw more touchdowns." It doesn't work that way.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Or he could have thrown for more than 1 TD against a Steeler team that was led by Mason Rudolph at the time. The Hawks followed that loss up with barely beating the hapless Cardinals with a lousy performance by Geno. A possible run to the NFCCG last year is a pipe dream.

Also, lousy performance against the Cardinals?

He threw for the 2 touchdowns you've been whining about needing to see from him, including a perfectly thrown game winner! No turnovers, another fantastic QBR, another passer rating over 100!

This! This is why everyone can credibly say that you will literally never have your mind changed on the topic. You just moved the goalposts on yourself within your own post!

So what now - do you need 3 touchdowns a game? You know, 51 per year? Or will you then blame him for not also playing linebacker and defending the run?