Geno Believer Yet?

AROS

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Curious what it will take for those of us who think Geno is merely a bridge QB or simply not good enough to win it all to believe he just might be our current franchise quarterback?

What kind of stats does he need to have to convince you?

Did you know that Geno Smith had more game winning drives in the 4th quarter (5) than ANY other QB last year?

Truly. What will it take?
 

Sprfunk

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Statistically the best Seahawks single season was Russell Wilson's 2020 season.
40 touchdowns, 2 rushing touchdowns, 68.8% completion rate, 4212 yards, 13 int.
Big numbers.

Geno's 2022 season was excellent, the highest single season seahawks yards at 4282. 30 tds, 1 rush TD, 11 int, and 69.8 comp%

I predicted baring injuries that Geno will have the best statistical seahawk season to date.

It's a tall order, but he can do it. He and Grub have just scratched the surface of what they can do.

The fact is though, if they don't believe yet they likely never will, even if he won a sbowl. It's not the story they want.
What they want is a young qb who lights it up, shows promis and gets better and better. One who has a bright future, and leads us for the next 15 years.

I get it, and we won't get that with Geno. People can't fathom how he could get or be better. His time here will be short lived. He won't be Brady keeping the bowl window open for 20 years.

That's where we are, so he won't be a long term answer. I would be surprised if he was here in 5 years.

But he may just have the best seasons seattle has ever seen. I'm all in on Geno the next few years.
 

toffee

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Curious what it will take for those of us who think Geno is merely a bridge QB or simply not good enough to win it all to believe he just might be our current franchise quarterback?

What kind of stats does he need to have to convince you?

Did you know that Geno Smith had more game winning drives in the 4th quarter (5) than ANY other QB last year?

Truly. What will it take?
I am a Geno fan boy since that Rams game when he sub for Wilson.
 

Spin Doctor

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I look at him as a Matt Hasselbeck sort of character. Hass was a good QB, but he was never the best of the best. He could flirt with top 5 or top 15 during any given year. Hell, there were some moments where he made magic happen on the level of the best. He had a certain moxie about him and he demanded a certain amount of respect from the people around him. Despite that, Hass had some issues that kept him out of being a top 3-5 guy. Hass's issues were different than Geno's, but they're still there.

The first big issue with Geno that I see is he just isn't that great in the redzone. He had one of the lowest completion percentages in the redzone last season. The Seahawks redzone offense also rated dang near close to last. It's also worth noting that our running game wasn't that good.

The second problem with Geno is his last two seasons starting, he really dropped off around the midpoint of the season, though he came back strong later. Specially his second half of 2022 was not very good. He had a pretty mediocre October and November in 2023 as well.

Ultimately, Geno can and has made every throw on the field. He's able to stand strong in the pocket and do everything you want a QB to do. He didn't end up here on accident and he certainly isn't a slob.

He definitely needs work in the endzone to really prove people wrong. He's certainly has not been the best in this respect here. Though, if you watched Waldron and heard what analyst are saying about him in Chicago, this may be an explanation for that.

Waldron is looking like hot garbage and throwing his rookie QB to the wolves. Making Caleb Williams make some crazy reads, when he was always a QB that excelled at improv and mobility. In addition, his play calls lack nuance and are maximizing the weaknesses of his QB. Waldron was a problem here in Seattle and that becomes clearer by the day.

Now, Grubb is another story. If Geno struggled in the redzone under Grubb, I'd also be okay giving Geno some leeway, as Grubb is new to the NFL level. Grubb has been good for the most part, but sometimes his initial gameplan sequences leave a lot to be desired. Some things have been clunky, others have been electric. The nice thing about Grubb is he is quick to throw out what isn't working and move onto something else. Something we haven't had in an OC for quite awhile.

As far as where this leads Geno, I think he is in the Kirk Cousins caliber of passer (pre injury Kirk). I think he's good, but he's a tier below the top guys. Now, I think this may be his year, because he's generally really good at taking what is good to him when he's in the zone and not pressing. That is what all of these hotshot signal callers haven't quite grasped yet. Geno is ahead of the game here. Meanwhile, players such as Mahommes, Allen and others are slinging the ball downfield, still in the 2010-2020 mentality. We're in 2024 and the two high safety is king. A lot of talented passers are struggling to adjust.
 

Lagartixa

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Statistically the best Seahawks single season was Russell Wilson's 2020 season.
40 touchdowns, 2 rushing touchdowns, 68.8% completion rate, 4212 yards, 13 int.
Big numbers.

Raw numbers are not a good way to judge the best season, especially raw counting stats like passing TDs, interceptions, rushing TDs, and passing yards. Adjustments for things like game situation and opponent quality, plus the use of rate stats beyond completion percentage, give better measures.

I want to be clear about one thing: Russell Wilson is still the best Seahawks QB in total career value, and the distance between Wilson's career and those of both Krieg and Hasselbeck is so huge that I don't think it's even worth anyone's time to adjust Krieg and Hasselbeck's careers for factors like the ones mentioned above plus era in order to figure out who produced the second-most career value as a QB for the Seahawks. I say this because it seems very likely to me that the difference between the two will come out negligibly small compared to the difference between Wilson and either of those two.

The fact is though, if they don't believe yet they likely never will, even if he won a sbowl. It's not the story they want.
What they want is a young qb who lights it up, shows promis and gets better and better. One who has a bright future, and leads us for the next 15 years.

I think you're pretty close about "the story they want" being involved. But my belief is that it doesn't start with them. It starts with the talking-head mediots paid a lot of money to spew nonsense about football on sports-news broadcasts.

Ask a real football analyst about a football game and you'll get information about team strategies and the tactics used to implement them. You'll get analysis of schemes, formations, protections, motions, responses to motions, ways of disguising play calls on both sides, player responsibilities on specific plays, what each team knows about the opponents' responsibilities just before the snap and how they know, and details about specific on-the-field matchups. Ask a talking-head mediot about a game (or just passively leave the TV on and tuned to the same channel when one of them appears on your screen) and you'll get a soap-opera narrative about feelings, palace intrigue, and revenge.

The problem is that these talking-head mediots who don't offer any serious analysis offer something very convenient: a pre-packaged opinion that other people will also have heard on TV and are therefore shockingly likely to believe is a serious expert's opinion, and therefore that it's a reasonable one to repeat. This allows people to participate in conversations about football even if they didn't really watch the game carefully, or "aren't X's-and-O's types" or whatever. Worse, the talking-head mediots act like they believe very deeply in what they're saying. The Philosopher's Stone of this kind of crap is Skip Braynless and Stephen A. Smith getting visibly angry with each other while talking over each other about conflicting made-up nonsense narratives.

When you hear again and again from people paid a lot of money as "analysts" on TV things like "the only possible way to success in today's NFL is to have one of the top two or three quarterbacks in the league," it's not hard for that idea to start to take root in your head. I go back to a moment in the early years of The Simpsons:

[Homer half-sleeping in front of TV, which is showing a commercial describing an outrageous-for-the-'90s sandwich that is "dipped in rich creamery butter"]
Lisa: Dad, what if I were to tell you you could lose weight without dieting or lifting a finger?
Homer: I'd say you're a lying scumbag! Why, sweetie?
Lisa: According to Eternity magazine, you can lose weight through subliminal learning. That's where an idea is suddenly implanted in your head without you even knowing it.
Homer: Oh Lisa, that's a load of rich creamery butter!

Hear enough "experts" insist on TV and in print with willing-to-fight-with-colleagues-about-it conviction that there's only one route to team success in the NFL, and it's not hard for people to start believing that kind of thing with enough conviction to argue with fellow fans about it on the internet, even though talking-head-mediot narratives are not predictive of anything.
 

bigskydoc

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Not intended as a dig on Geno, but I’ve never understood the argument for this stat indicating a good QB, coach, or team. (And it’s more of a team and coach stat than an individual player stat)

Great teams tend to win comfortably. Poor teams tend to lose handily. Truly average teams will find themselves in more one-score games, needing last minute drives to finish out games.

The game doesn’t have to be won in the 4th quarter, though it does have to be finished.
 

pittpnthrs

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Curious what it will take for those of us who think Geno is merely a bridge QB or simply not good enough to win it all to believe he just might be our current franchise quarterback?

What kind of stats does he need to have to convince you?

Did you know that Geno Smith had more game winning drives in the 4th quarter (5) than ANY other QB last year?

Truly. What will it take?

Win a post season game. That's what it will take.
 

SoulfishHawk

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He was DAMN good yesterday. If it wasn't for 4 or 5 drops, he probably has 400 yards passing. He was poised. He was calm. He was a leader.

THAT'S the Geno I want to see. If you can't give him credit for yesterday, you flat out never will Pitt. Come on man. He was fricken NAILS yesterday. Shoot, the ridiculous drop by Fant likely gets them down inside the 5. The defenders fell down and he had a convoy. DK, JSN and Fant all had drops that were solid passes. I look forward to being very wrong about the guy, a LOT more. He wasn't just geYES, he was geHELLYES.

Side note: DK and JSN had 22 catches for over 200 yards yesterday. The bad: Run defense was painfully bad.

Plenty of work to be done, but this team is 2-0 and hasn't come CLOSE to playing their best football. Not sure how this isn't a very good thing we are seeing so far. Wins, the only thing that matters. Again, 2-0 and playing pretty bad at times, with some real good in there at times.
I think most of us expected a real up and down, rollercoaster type season, and we are seeing it. Never apologize for a win. Enjoy it, they're not easy to come by in the NFL.

.02
 
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pittpnthrs

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Until he only throws 2 TDs in said postseason win and people say that the defense gave him the win.

If he plays well, he plays well. If he doesn't, he doesn't. Also, your post works both ways. A lot of people on here saying Geno won that game himself. Not seeing any credit being spread anywhere else.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Won as a team, but he's the QB and he lead them to victory. AGAIN. Geezus man, would it physically hurt you to just give the dude a tip of the cap? Even just once?
 

pittpnthrs

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He was DAMN good yesterday. If it wasn't for 4 or 5 drops, he probably has 400 yards passing. He was poised. He was calm. He was a leader.

THAT'S the Geno I want to see. If you can't give him credit for yesterday, you flat out never will Pitt. Come on man. He was fricken NAILS yesterday. Shoot, the ridiculous drop by Fant likely gets them down inside the 5. The defenders fell down and he had a convoy. DK, JSN and Fant all had drops that were solid passes. I look forward to being very wrong about the guy, a LOT more. He wasn't just geYES, he was geHELLYES.

Side note: DK and JSN had 22 catches for over 200 yards yesterday. The bad: Run defense was painfully bad.

Plenty of work to be done, but this team is 2-0 and hasn't come CLOSE to playing their best football. Not sure how this isn't a very good thing we are seeing so far. Wins, the only thing that matters. Again, 2-0 and playing pretty bad at times, with some real good in there at times.
I think most of us expected a real up and down, rollercoaster type season, and we are seeing it. Never apologize for a win. Enjoy it, they're not easy to come by in the NFL.

.02

I only got to watch the 1st half. He played well. He only had one goof that I saw and that was just throwing it up for grabs when the play had already dissolved. The Pats had a defender knock the ball down luckily or it would have been an easy pick for the two other defenders behind him. Other than that, he looked good.

I'm not arguing that he looked bad anyways.

As for the team as a whole, still don't know what to think. Barely beat a Patriots team led by Jacoby Brissett who beat the Bengals last week who nearly beat the Chiefs this week. Lol. Who knows. If you ask me if i'm worried about the upcoming games against the Lions and the Giants my answer will be yes (although the football gods have deemed the Lions cursed against us).
 

SoulfishHawk

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He didn't just look good, he had one of his best games ever, imo. It's not his fault they had at least 5 drops on catchable balls. And he still put up ridiculous numbers against a stout D Line.

And here we go again, "barely beat"
I keep forgetting that this is the BCS, you have to win pretty. 🤯
Do you, as I always say, but damn man. You are shockingly negative and stubborn. Just sayin.
 

pittpnthrs

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He didn't just look good, he had one of his best games ever, imo. It's not his fault they had at least 5 drops on catchable balls. And he still put up ridiculous numbers against a stout D Line.

Ok, i'm not arguing about it. I believe you. Again, I didn't get to watch the second half so I wouldn't know anyways. My initial post in this thread was for a question about Geno as a whole, not yesterdays game. No biggie.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Fair enough. It's no secret that I've never been a huge Geno fan. But he's making me have a hell of a lot more confidence in him. And that's a good thing. Being wrong is very good, when it means your team is winning.
 

pittpnthrs

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Fair enough. It's no secret that I've never been a huge Geno fan. But he's making me have a hell of a lot more confidence in him. And that's a good thing. Being wrong is very good, when it means your team is winning.

I don't think anybody is saying he hasen't played well the past couple of seasons. There's just some of us that want to know if he can win on the bigger stage (the post season). He hasen't done that before so why is that such a horrible thing to ask? I just want to see if he can do it and if he does, i'll be proven wrong. Hopefully I am. I don't think he can, but I don't know that for sure.
 

Smellyman

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Fair enough. It's no secret that I've never been a huge Geno fan. But he's making me have a hell of a lot more confidence in him. And that's a good thing. Being wrong is very good, when it means your team is winning.
that is a good thing!

Geno let out a sigh of relief.
 

SoulfishHawk

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I don't think anybody is saying he hasen't played well the past couple of seasons. There's just some of us that want to know if he can win on the bigger stage (the post season). He hasen't done that before so why is that such a horrible thing to ask? I just want to see if he can do it and if he does, i'll be proven wrong. Hopefully I am. I don't think he can, but I don't know that for sure.
Well, the post season isn't for several months. So..........why not enjoy the REGULAR season in the meantime?
 

sutz

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Will just add one comment here. Perhaps Geno "wasn't good in the red zone" because those teams couldn't reliably run the ball anywhere on the field and Geno was forced to pass in the red zone where it is most dangerous. 🤷‍♂️
 

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