For our 9er fans on this forum

[Popeyejones]

Our local niner fans are picking up on what some Hawk fans are putting down. Those same home town hawk fans get trashed by the oblivious homers. That vid was retarded BTW.

Paying Wilson this offseason and the possibility of Lynch leaving is a legitimate concern. RW is going to get paid this offseason (and it's well deserved) and it will impact the structure of the team, no matter how much some here want to ignore that fact. Lynch IS the consistent dominating factor of the hawks offense. Any hawk homer knows this, Wilson is a close second. Take Lynch away and there's no way in hell RW gets the yards on the ground or same amount of time to pass in the pocket.....
The reasons for Wilson not being a true hybrid pocket passer / running QB has to do with a poor offensive line and questionable receivers. Not having a dominate TE is probably a bigger issue this year. RW can adapt to any style of offense if he has the supporting cast though. When he becomes the golden goose financially the profile of the hawks will change, it has to. To say it wont is just dumb. You cant take 15- 20 percent of your salary cap and invest it to one player and not spend more money to protect that golden goose. As of today the hawks have spent little on protecting RW, i.e. the O line. Will Russell Okung get a big contract? How about the rest of the Oline that are up? Pay those guys to protect RW then is there enough left for BW's? KJ? Maxwell, draft, FA's?

Not that this matters for the hawks Super Bowl run this year, but next year , yes it matters. That said, I don't give a crap about the 2015 season, two in a row is more important right now. I'll take a set back in 2015.

Good post, and yeah, none of this matters a lick for this season and the Hawks' chances in it.

TBF, I think we're probably even talking more about 2016 than we are 2015.

I'm assuming Wilson and Wagner will both be extended this offseason, and the real money in their deals won't start until 2016.

The issue is that Thomas' and Shemans' real money is going to be kicking in 2015, and almost half the team (45%) are FAs in 2015 (which is pretty crazy). Fortunately for the Hawks these are all non-essential players (the most effective maybe being Avril). Still though, with big money kicking in by 2016 and over 80% of the team being FAs this off-season and next-off-season, just because of the cap it's impossible for a lot of changes to not be coming.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Russell IMO is the great equalizer because he can make lemonade out of lemons, and that's why we drafted him and created a run based offense that caters to what he does best, scramble around and make plays.

He'd be making more plays if he became an ultra efficient pocket passer. If he couldn't scramble like he does, he would not be a starter on his traditional QB play alone. He needs to take the next step next year. If he doesn't, I would begin to worry. Hopefully (or not =P) JS is smart enough to give him a contract in which they can easily cut ties with him like we did with Kaepernick.

Russell had a higher completion percentage inside the pocket last year than outside, so not sure what you're talking about.

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/russell- ... de-pocket/

But it's a typical outside of Seattle opinion of Russell, because most media members are lazy and just lump him in with the other "running" QB's like Kaep, RG3 and Cam. The truth is Russell can do it all, inside and outside the pocket.

Thus my not being worried about him next year without Marshawn. Add in Russell's work ethic, and I have ZERO doubt that he will continue relentlessly to improve each year.

 

[Popeyejones]

It's not wishful thinking on our part. Yes, RW has shown all that, but not at the consistent basis he should be just yet.

Russell Wilson is the definition of consistency:

2012: 64.1% completions, 194.9 yards/game, 26-10 TD-INT ratio, 100 QB rating

2013: 63.1% completions, 209.8 yards/game, 26-9 TD-INT ratio, 101.2 QB rating

2014: 63.4% completions, 209.9 yards/game, 17-5 TD-INT ratio, 95.2 QB rating

He was referring to consistency within games and across games, not end of season stats. If anything your post is supportive of what RationalNiner has argued: Wilson is a really, really good quarterback, but has not progressed so far in the way many people (both Hawks and 9ers fans alike) have expected him to.

I'd prefer not to use end of season stats to make this argument (too many other factors come into play) and instead to rely on informed watching*, but both approaches get us to the same place, IMO (which in itself is a form of confirmation, I suppose).




*e.g. is he stepping into the pocket and quickly making it through his progressions while doing so, can he manipulate the pocket, is he leaving the box and abandoning the play as a response to pressure or is he still leaning on an internal clock regardless of pressure, etc.

 

[Popeyejones]

Russell had a higher completion percentage inside the pocket last year than outside, so not sure what you're talking about.

Grant Cohn is a kid who knows less about football than 90% of the posters here.

Inside the tackle box != inside the pocket.

Wilson, probably more than any other QB in the NFL, works from above the pocket and outside the pocket. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for him (it does, clearly), but it also limits the types of things the Hawks are able to do in the pass game. It's a very important area of his game that he still might develop, he just hasn't done so yet.

 

[Largent80]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=87 ... =2&theater

 

[DirtyDave]

Jeezus, can anyone even have fun anymore without someone being offended?

What a pussy assed society we live in these days.

Bunch of lazy, thin skinned, Iphone watchin ,fat assed chodes.

this 100%

 

[Sports Hernia]

It's not wishful thinking on our part. Yes, RW has shown all that, but not at the consistent basis he should be just yet.

Russell Wilson is the definition of consistency:

2012: 64.1% completions, 194.9 yards/game, 26-10 TD-INT ratio, 100 QB rating
2013: 63.1% completions, 209.8 yards/game, 26-9 TD-INT ratio, 101.2 QB rating
2014: 63.4% completions, 209.9 yards/game, 17-5 TD-INT ratio, 95.2 QB rating
Career: 63.3% completions, 204.5 yards/game, 69-24 TD-INT ratio, 98.9 QB rating

Despite porous pass protection and a weakened receiving corps, Wilson has been as steady as a rock for this offense. That's a credit to his uncanny ability to elude the pressure. In fact, he's managed to actually cut down his INTs and do more damage on the ground - 727 rushing yards and 5 TDs so far.

I doubt you can find a QB who has been more consistent through his first three seasons. I know you can't find one who has more wins.

You and your damn stats ruined the OP's original point and narrative, drat!

:th2thumbs:

 

[RationalNiner]

It's not wishful thinking on our part. Yes, RW has shown all that, but not at the consistent basis he should be just yet.

Russell Wilson is the definition of consistency:

2012: 64.1% completions, 194.9 yards/game, 26-10 TD-INT ratio, 100 QB rating
2013: 63.1% completions, 209.8 yards/game, 26-9 TD-INT ratio, 101.2 QB rating
2014: 63.4% completions, 209.9 yards/game, 17-5 TD-INT ratio, 95.2 QB rating
Career: 63.3% completions, 204.5 yards/game, 69-24 TD-INT ratio, 98.9 QB rating

Despite porous pass protection and a weakened receiving corps, Wilson has been as steady as a rock for this offense. That's a credit to his uncanny ability to elude the pressure. In fact, he's managed to actually cut down his INTs and do more damage on the ground - 727 rushing yards and 5 TDs so far.

I doubt you can find a QB who has been more consistent through his first three seasons. I know you can't find one who has more wins.

You and your damn stats ruined the OP's original point and narrative, drat!

:th2thumbs:

Not really. You and Hawknation are largely missing the point of what I am saying and none of those stats do anything to counter what I've said. Hawknation is taking what I meant by consistency on high level quarterbacking (making plays from the pocket, changing protections and identifying the blitz pre snap in order to audible into a more advantageous play, going through his progressions in the pocket without scrambling after the primary read is taken away, making the very tough anticipation throws, etc) out of context.

Yes, RW has been consistent being pretty much the same guy he has been since the second half of the 2012 season. Good but not great/elite.

 

[Sports Hernia]

It's not wishful thinking on our part. Yes, RW has shown all that, but not at the consistent basis he should be just yet.

Russell Wilson is the definition of consistency:

2012: 64.1% completions, 194.9 yards/game, 26-10 TD-INT ratio, 100 QB rating
2013: 63.1% completions, 209.8 yards/game, 26-9 TD-INT ratio, 101.2 QB rating
2014: 63.4% completions, 209.9 yards/game, 17-5 TD-INT ratio, 95.2 QB rating
Career: 63.3% completions, 204.5 yards/game, 69-24 TD-INT ratio, 98.9 QB rating

Despite porous pass protection and a weakened receiving corps, Wilson has been as steady as a rock for this offense. That's a credit to his uncanny ability to elude the pressure. In fact, he's managed to actually cut down his INTs and do more damage on the ground - 727 rushing yards and 5 TDs so far.

I doubt you can find a QB who has been more consistent through his first three seasons. I know you can't find one who has more wins.

You and your damn stats ruined the OP's original point and narrative, drat!

:th2thumbs:

Not really. You and Hawknation are largely missing the point of what I am saying and none of those stats do anything to counter what I've said. Hawknation is taking what I meant by consistency on high level quarterbacking (making plays from the pocket, changing protections and identifying the blitz pre snap in order to audible into a more advantageous play, going through his progressions in the pocket without scrambling after the primary read is taken away, making the very tough anticipation throws, etc) out of context.

Yes, RW has been consistent being pretty much the same guy he has been since the second half of the 2012 season. Good but not great/elite.

:34853_doh:
No, it is you that is missing the point, but you'd have to take off your 49'er colored glasses to see that fact.
You need to change your screen name you are no longer "rational", just another niners troll trying to stir up crap because his team is having a disasterous season that you didn't see coming, while some of us did. Take your pity party elsewhere.

PS. Enjoy the niners rebuilding process, I know I will! :th2thumbs:

 

[chris98251]

If Beast does not come back after next year we go into the market and find a back, Blount while a head case by some would be someone I could see bringing in. Pete has a way of working with these types and he isn't a prima donna as much as just a different type person. Lynch? That or the find a bruiser like Hyde or Lacy in the draft, I think they look for a back that runs angry and has a all around game, does not need to be on the Heisman watch list to be successful here.

Russell Wilson is going to get paid, but this team has been planning for it and it will work itself out one way shape or form.

Carroll will always run first, he will find a back or a way to do this. Those that feel once Lynch is gone we become the Colts are mistaken, possession, control, and physical domination are the bread and butter of Pete's teams.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Yes, RW has been consistent being pretty much the same guy he has been since the second half of the 2012 season. Good but not great/elite.

You might want to give him more then 45 games with a 33-12 regular season record, 4-1 playoff record with a Superbowl win before you declare that. Also if Marshaun decides to hang it up we will either go with what we have or get somebody to fill in (probably in the draft) while focusing the offense more through Wilson like any other team in that particular scenerio.

Pete will always make sure we run but he definitely wants a far more explosive pass offense and it will get done either by a FA pickup or just letting Norwood and Richardson develop for more then 13 games.

 

[RationalNiner]

No, it is you that is missing the point, but you'd have to take off your 49'er colored glasses to see that fact.
You need to change your screen name you are no longer "rational", just another niners troll trying to stir up crap because his team is having a disasterous season that you didn't see coming, while some of us did. Take your pity party elsewhere.

PS. Enjoy the niners rebuilding process, I know I will! :th2thumbs:

Are the ad hominem attacks really necessary?

 

[RationalNiner]

Carroll will always run first, he will find a back or a way to do this. Those that feel once Lynch is gone we become the Colts are mistaken, possession, control, and physical domination are the bread and butter of Pete's teams.

That is a good point. Considering Pete wants his teams to continually look like that, do you think it's worth it to give Russ a big contract?

With the extra cap space from not having a QB take up 15-20% of your cap, you can afford a game manager type QB, spend more on the OL and keep key players on the defense.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Carroll will always run first, he will find a back or a way to do this. Those that feel once Lynch is gone we become the Colts are mistaken, possession, control, and physical domination are the bread and butter of Pete's teams.

That is a good point. Considering Pete wants his teams to continually look like that, do you think it's worth it to give Russ a big contract?

With the extra cap space from not having a QB take up 15-20% of your cap, you can afford a game manager type QB, spend more on the OL and keep key players on the defense.

I'm guessing his contract won't ever go higher then 15% (estimated 133M for 2014 so that would be 20M) of the cap and because of the cap going up, it's going to really go up after 2015 when the new money kicks in fully, it will be much less then it appears in any case. We already have the money to keep our key players on defense and we don't actually need to have an OL the quality of Dallas or Denver at least for a few years.

I wonder how San Francisco's OL was regarded in the Steve Young era or Minnesota's in the Tarkenton era? I don't remember either as being regarded super elite so the question.

 

[chris98251]

Carroll will always run first, he will find a back or a way to do this. Those that feel once Lynch is gone we become the Colts are mistaken, possession, control, and physical domination are the bread and butter of Pete's teams.

That is a good point. Considering Pete wants his teams to continually look like that, do you think it's worth it to give Russ a big contract?

With the extra cap space from not having a QB take up 15-20% of your cap, you can afford a game manager type QB, spend more on the OL and keep key players on the defense.

I think the structure will be friendly but not so much as to look cheap, Wilson is capitalizing on endorsements like crazy also, he is also smart enough to know that 31 other teams passed on him and that he got his shot here. Pete has been true to his word in dealing with players as well.

Wilson knows our formula for winning, so it will depend on his motivations. He has stated he wants to be the best QB ever and is striving for that. This is not the team that is going to allow him to put up gaudy numbers, but could be one that gets him multiple Championships over his career as long as Pete or someone like him is here.

That's the real question we as Seattle fans should be asking, how long can Pete continue to coach and be a part of this franchise.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Wilson is going to get a contract as big as any of the recent QB deals and rightly so. A true franchise QB and a Super Bowl Champion.

 

[rideaducati]

I've seen Russell progressing over the past couple games. We rarely see Russell step up into a good pocket, but in the last couple games, he has been stepping up more. He sees what he does and knows what he needs to do. It takes time, but he is constantly improving. Up to this point, he hasn't regressed or stayed the same.

People that pay little attention to the Seahawks and only look at stats are missing the growth from game to game within those stats. It's odd that so many people write about Russell and how they don't think he is progressing when it is clear that he is.

I think Russell still needs to work on getting rid of the ball on time more than he has, but he has been getting better at that over the last couple games too. Just another reason to believe that he sees and knows what he needs to work on.

All of these things are the reasons why we tend to brush aside niner fans and their "worries" about Russell. Keep HOPING that the people writing about Russell's failure to progress are right while us Seahawks fans KNOW he is progressing just fine.

 

[RationalNiner]

I wonder how San Francisco's OL was regarded in the Steve Young era or Minnesota's in the Tarkenton era? I don't remember either as being regarded super elite so the question.

It definitely wasn't super elite. Dallas was the one with the super elite OL in the 90s but they needed it. Aikman is super overrated and without Irvin, the line, and run game, he wouldn't have amounted to much. Steve Young was an elite QB and even better than Montana, IMO (Montana is another very overrated QB and I'm sure niner fans here will hate me for saying so). This play here is a good illustration of how damn accurate he was: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzThn8pkpC0

A QB that plays the position at an elite level doesn't need an elite OL because he can cover for them with quick decision making and excellent pocket presence. Last year Mankins was the only offensive linemen that went to the probowl on the Patriots and even he was expendable to them. Another example is that the only notable player from Manning's Colts on the OL was Saturday.

 

[Sports Hernia]

No, it is you that is missing the point, but you'd have to take off your 49'er colored glasses to see that fact.
You need to change your screen name you are no longer "rational", just another niners troll trying to stir up crap because his team is having a disasterous season that you didn't see coming, while some of us did. Take your pity party elsewhere.

PS. Enjoy the niners rebuilding process, I know I will! :th2thumbs:

Are the ad hominem attacks really necessary?

Ahhhh the old "Niner troll victim card". Saw that coming from a mile away!
The victim role doesn't suit you, sorry!

 

[lvnginhwktwn]