For our 9er fans on this forum

[RationalNiner]

Russell Wilson grew up a 49er fan. Do you think he ever used the five ring argument? :lol:

Nah, Russell Wilson grew up a Saints fan. You must be thinking of Pete Carroll, who grew up in the Bay Area liking the 49ers.

I specifically remember Russell Wilson on a late night talk show after winning the SB saying he grew up a niner fan. Let me see if I can find the clip.

 

[bigtrain21]

To the other two hawk fans that have replied to my post, yes Wilson played well in last season's SB. There is no doubting that. But he just isn't consistent. Keep in mind Kaepernick still hasn't looked as good throwing the ball as he has since his first game in Chicago during the 2012 season.

What's key here is consistency. The fact that Wilson still hasn't shown he can be a consistent pocket passer is reason for concern, not huge concern, but if he still not able to do it next year, that concern should rise significantly.

We all played the same waiting game with Kaepernick. We gave him all the weapons this year. This was suppose to be the year he took that next step. Instead he has regressed even with Boldin, Crab, Stevie, Lloyd, etc. I'm not ready to write him off 100% yet but if he's still not making plays from the pocket in the season next year, I think it would be time to move on.

Making plays from the pocket is extremely important. A lot of passing plays are based on timing and get rid of the ball quickly. When you are scrambling around all the time, it ruins that in a sense.

RW needs to take the next step next year, and if he doesn't, I think you guys should begin to worry about the future. I would make sure that it is easy to part ways with RW when structuring his new contract in case it turns out he can't put the team on his back without Beast mode and the defense continuing their dominance.

Dominant defenses seem historically lose their dominance over the time, as with most things that hit their peak. The bears only regressed since 1985. The 2000 ravens regressed as time went on. 2011 to now, Niner's defense has regressed. The 2014 Seahawks have slightly regressed since last season but it appears they are coming back into form. Can they continue next season? Maybe, but not as dominant.

Point is eventually RW is gonna need to be able to carry the team on his back with a big contract, like all the franchise QBs have done. And if beast mode is gone next year, he might need to step up his game as early as then. Remember, franchise QBs don't need perfect situations to succeed. Tom Brady is getting done with pretty pedestrian receivers outside of Gronk, IMO. Manning did not exactly have a world class oline when he was with the colts. The only notable player from that unit was Saturday.

Even if you guys hit on your future draft picks with receivers and Oline men, without Russell taking the next step, it'll be cause for concern. As an outsider looking in, Russell SHOULD have taken his game to the next level this year, especially after the great SB performance, but he largely looks like the same player from last year. We all had the same hope for Kaepernick and us niner fans rationalized that he would be able to take the next step with new receivers and we got lost in all the details so we miss the big picture and use those details to rationalize what we want to believe.

Russell is an affable guy and I wish him well in his career and I do hope he takes the next step as he can be exciting to watch but I'm beginning to wonder. I definitely thought he was gonna take the next step this season.

Russell Wilson is doing just fine. He is in his 3rd year. He threw more touchdowns than everyone except Dan Marino in his first 2 years. Our offense doesn't really throw the ball a ton because they don't need to in order to win a ton of games. I think your concerns are a little silly considering how much QB's normally struggle during their first few years. He is constantly learning and is a great leader. He has good numbers from the pocket. I think you are listening to talking heads too much and not doing enough of your own research.

 

[bigtrain21]

Russell Wilson grew up a 49er fan. Do you think he ever used the five ring argument? :lol:

Nah, Russell Wilson grew up a Saints fan. You must be thinking of Pete Carroll, who grew up in the Bay Area liking the 49ers.

I specifically remember Russell Wilson on a late night talk show after winning the SB saying he grew up a niner fan. Let me see if I can find the clip.

If he was that would be fantastic. That would mean a 5 year old sitting on a couch in February of 1994 won a Super Bowl before his favorite team won one again. Hilarious!

 

[hawknation2014]

Russell Wilson grew up a 49er fan. Do you think he ever used the five ring argument? :lol:

Nah, Russell Wilson grew up a Saints fan. You must be thinking of Pete Carroll, who grew up in the Bay Area liking the 49ers.

I specifically remember Russell Wilson on a late night talk show after winning the SB saying he grew up a niner fan. Let me see if I can find the clip.

Nevermind, you're right. From a chat in 2012 when Wilson was a draft prospect:

Paul (Farmville, Va)

Who was your favorite team growing up?
Russell Wilson (3:01 PM)

I would probably say the San Francisco 49ers.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... ell-wilson

He said in another interview that he was a Saints fan while in college at Wisconsin.

 

[RationalNiner]

Russell Wilson is doing just fine. He is in his 3rd year. He threw more touchdowns than everyone except Dan Marino in his first 2 years. Our offense doesn't really throw the ball a ton because they don't need to in order to win a ton of games. I think your concerns are a little silly considering how much QB's normally struggle during their first few years. He is constantly learning and is a great leader. He has good numbers from the pocket. I think you are listening to talking heads too much and not doing enough of your own research.

He's doing fine enough but still hasn't gotten to the point where he can put the team, and if he doesn't take the next step next year this will be cause for concern after getting a probable big contract.

And no, he still isn't a consistent pocket passer. There's a reason why you guys to throw a lot, you aren't built for it yet and this is where Lynch comes in to cover for weaknesses in your offense. Other more level headed seahawk fans can see what I am talking about. I want to see if he takes the next step next season on a consistent basis.

 

[bigtrain21]

Russell Wilson is doing just fine. He is in his 3rd year. He threw more touchdowns than everyone except Dan Marino in his first 2 years. Our offense doesn't really throw the ball a ton because they don't need to in order to win a ton of games. I think your concerns are a little silly considering how much QB's normally struggle during their first few years. He is constantly learning and is a great leader. He has good numbers from the pocket. I think you are listening to talking heads too much and not doing enough of your own research.

He's doing fine enough but still hasn't gotten to the point where he can put the team on his back after getting a big contract.

And no, he still isn't a consistent pocket passer. There's a reason why you guys to throw a lot, you aren't built for it yet and this is where Lynch comes in to cover for weaknesses in your offense. Other more level headed seahawk fans can see what I am talking about.

He's in his 3rd year. He doesn't have to be consistent. Is Andrew Luck a consistent pocket passer?

 

[RationalNiner]

Russell Wilson is doing just fine. He is in his 3rd year. He threw more touchdowns than everyone except Dan Marino in his first 2 years. Our offense doesn't really throw the ball a ton because they don't need to in order to win a ton of games. I think your concerns are a little silly considering how much QB's normally struggle during their first few years. He is constantly learning and is a great leader. He has good numbers from the pocket. I think you are listening to talking heads too much and not doing enough of your own research.

He's doing fine enough but still hasn't gotten to the point where he can put the team on his back after getting a big contract.

And no, he still isn't a consistent pocket passer. There's a reason why you guys to throw a lot, you aren't built for it yet and this is where Lynch comes in to cover for weaknesses in your offense. Other more level headed seahawk fans can see what I am talking about.

He's in his 3rd year. He doesn't have to be consistent. Is Andrew Luck a consistent pocket passer?

Ok, this is obviously going to be a fruitless conversation. You're missing the point. And yes, Andrew Luck is ahead of RW as far as pure quarterbacking skill. The numbers and film don't lie.

 

[bigtrain21]

Russell Wilson is doing just fine. He is in his 3rd year. He threw more touchdowns than everyone except Dan Marino in his first 2 years. Our offense doesn't really throw the ball a ton because they don't need to in order to win a ton of games. I think your concerns are a little silly considering how much QB's normally struggle during their first few years. He is constantly learning and is a great leader. He has good numbers from the pocket. I think you are listening to talking heads too much and not doing enough of your own research.

He's doing fine enough but still hasn't gotten to the point where he can put the team on his back after getting a big contract.

And no, he still isn't a consistent pocket passer. There's a reason why you guys to throw a lot, you aren't built for it yet and this is where Lynch comes in to cover for weaknesses in your offense. Other more level headed seahawk fans can see what I am talking about.

He's in his 3rd year. He doesn't have to be consistent. Is Andrew Luck a consistent pocket passer?

Ok, this is obviously going to be a fruitless conversation. You're missing the point. And yes, Andrew Luck is ahead of RW as far as pure quarterbacking skill. The numbers and film don't lie.

You're right. You are clueless. GTFO.

 

[RationalNiner]

You're right. You are clueless. GTFO.

Your :49ersmall: hate is strong

Fact of the matter is that Wilson still struggles to see blitzes before the snap and will scramble once his first read is taken away, much like Kaepernick. The difference is Russell is better at going through his progressions and keeping his eyes down the field while scrambling.

It's this abandoning the structure of the play that Russell needs to get over. He still misses opportunities on plays even when he does use his feet for positive yardage as there are receivers open.

Luck, while more susceptible to turnovers due to taking more risks with the ball, is in better command of his offense, better at pre-snap reads, changing protections, and audibles based on what the defense is showing. Wilson is still not at that level (and still takes unnecessary sacks because of this), nor is he at Luck's level of being a pocket passer in which he follows the design of the play. Luck is much better at throwing receivers open and making anticipation throws from the pocket.

The numbers and film don't lie. You don't have to take offense to it. It's just something RW has to work on and we'll need to see next year if he takes the next step. He's a hard worker. We'll see. I'm still somewhat surprised he hasn't taken that step because he came from two different pro-styled offenses in college @ NC and Wisconsin.

 

[bigtrain21]

You're right. You are clueless. GTFO.

Your :49ersmall: hate is strong

Your post had nothing to do with the 49ers so when addressing your post I didn't say anything about them. We are arguing about Russell Wilson and not you being a 49er fan. I don't care. I thought you were offbase so I made some points that I think are relevant. You seem to only want a one sided conversation on a Seahawks forum about him. When someone disagrees with you it apparently makes the argument fruitless.

 

[RationalNiner]

You're right. You are clueless. GTFO.

Your :49ersmall: hate is strong

Your post had nothing to do with the 49ers so when addressing your post I didn't say anything about them. We are arguing about Russell Wilson and not you being a 49er fan. I don't care. I thought you were offbase so I made some points that I think are relevant. You seem to only want a one sided conversation on a Seahawks forum about him. When someone disagrees with you it apparently makes the argument fruitless.

You did not present much of an argument to back up whatever points you tried to make. You just gave two sentence posts without much analysis. Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[bigtrain21]

You're right. You are clueless. GTFO.

Your :49ersmall: hate is strong

Your post had nothing to do with the 49ers so when addressing your post I didn't say anything about them. We are arguing about Russell Wilson and not you being a 49er fan. I don't care. I thought you were offbase so I made some points that I think are relevant. You seem to only want a one sided conversation on a Seahawks forum about him. When someone disagrees with you it apparently makes the argument fruitless.

You did not present much of an argument to back up whatever points you tried to make. You just gave two sentence posts without much analysis. Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree.

What is with you massively editing posts after people respond to them?

 

[bigtrain21]

You're right. You are clueless. GTFO.

Your :49ersmall: hate is strong

Fact of the matter is that Wilson still struggles to see blitzes before the snap and will scramble once his first read is taken away, much like Kaepernick. The difference is Russell is better at going through his progressions and keeping his eyes down the field while scrambling.

It's this abandoning the structure of the play that Russell needs to get over. He still misses opportunities on plays even when he does use his feet for positive yardage as there are receivers open.

Luck, while more susceptible to turnovers due to taking more risks with the ball, is in better command of his offense, better at pre-snap reads, changing protections, and audibles based on what the defense is showing. Wilson is still not at that level (and still takes unnecessary sacks because of this), nor is he at Luck's level of being a pocket passer in which he follows the structure of the play. Luck is much better at throwing receivers open and making anticipation throws from the pocket.

The numbers and film doesn't lie. You don't have to take offense to it. It's just something RW has to work on and we'll need to see next year if he takes the next step. He's a hard worker. We'll see. I'm still somewhat surprised he hasn't taken that step because he came from two different pro-styled offenses in college @ NC and Wisconsin.

That is not a huge part of our offense like it is for Andrew Luck. I am really not sure why you feel the need to compare the two qb's anyway. They play in totally different offenses. Luck has 669 more passing attempts in his career. This has garnered him exactly 13 more touchdowns in his career 3297 yards in the course of their careers. Russell Wilson could average a measly 5.07 yards per attempt over his next 669 attempts to tie his production through that many pass attempts. He averages 26 throws per game. It would take him 26 games at that average to throw those extra 669 attempts. Don't you think he would have very little trouble throwing 13 td's. Russell Wilson has been more productive in the NFL than Luck on a per pass basis and it really isn't close.


Here is the real deal. You are a 49ers fan and it hurts to think that one of your rivals has a good qb. So you try to minimize his accomplishments because somehow that makes you feel better. You don't care to watch the games but you will trust old farts watching tape and believe every single one of their opinions as gospel.

 

[HansGruber]

Jeezus, can anyone even have fun anymore without someone being offended?

What a pussy assed society we live in these days.

Bunch of lazy, thin skinned, Iphone watchin ,fat assed chodes.

Hey! What're you trying to say??

I own an Android!

 

[-The Glove-]

Sounds like a lot of wishful thinking on the part of some Niner's fans. Wilson is fine...he's shown he can make plays from the pocket...make multiple reads and make timed throws...WHEN he has had time. I guess misery does love company...only issue is, it looks like you guys might be lonely for awhile

 

[RationalNiner]

That is not a huge part of our offense like it is for Andrew Luck. I am really not sure why you feel the need to compare the two qb's anyway. They play in totally different offenses. Luck has 669 more passing attempts in his career. This has garnered him exactly 13 more touchdowns in his career 3297 yards in the course of their careers. Russell Wilson could average a measly 5.07 yards per attempt over his next 669 attempts to tie his production through that many pass attempts. He averages 26 throws per game. It would take him 26 games at that average to throw those extra 669 attempts. Don't you think he would have very little trouble throwing 13 td's. Russell Wilson has been more productive in the NFL than Luck on a per pass basis and it really isn't close.

Huge part of the offense or not, it still doesn't change the fact that Russell has certain negative tendencies as a passer (quick to scramble after primary read is not open, not as good as recognizing blitzes presnap or changing protections, etc). Based on his play and what he's shown, he's not ready to run an offense like Luck yet. As far as the per pass statistic, it's a lot easier when you pick and choose your shots and take less risks. You're not really addressing the points I've made on RW. I think other Seahawk fans on this forum have agreed with me in that they think RW is eventually gonna need to take the next step and that might come as soon as next season if beast mode is gone. Do they have something against RW? Of course not.

Here is the real deal. You are a 49ers fan and it hurts to think that one of your rivals has a good qb. So you try to minimize his accomplishments because somehow that makes you feel better. You don't care to watch the games but you will trust old farts watching tape and believe every single one of their opinions as gospel.

Maybe you should read my first thread here and see some of my older posts when I thought RW was top 5 at the beginning of the year (but he did not progress like I thought he would). I think just don't like my thoughts on RW. Nothing against the guy at all. All of these guys are trying to live and accomplish their childhood dreams of being great NFL players and I wish most players nothing but the best at accomplishing their goals.

 

[RationalNiner]

Sounds like a lot of wishful thinking on the part of some Niner's fans. Wilson is fine...he's shown he can make plays from the pocket...make multiple reads and make timed throws...WHEN he has had time. I guess misery does love company...only issue is, it looks like you guys might be lonely for awhile

It's not wishful thinking on our part. Yes, RW has shown all that, but not at the consistent basis he should be just yet. Even Kaepernick has shown that at points. We shall see next year how he progresses.

Remember when you guys said our window is closing because of age, kaepernick not being very good, etc and most Niner fans were in denial?

There are some legitimate concerns and that's all they are at this point, concerns, but we'll see how it goes next year.

 

[hawknation2014]

It's not wishful thinking on our part. Yes, RW has shown all that, but not at the consistent basis he should be just yet.

Russell Wilson is the definition of consistency:

2012: 64.1% completions, 194.9 yards/game, 26-10 TD-INT ratio, 100 QB rating
2013: 63.1% completions, 209.8 yards/game, 26-9 TD-INT ratio, 101.2 QB rating
2014: 63.4% completions, 209.9 yards/game, 17-5 TD-INT ratio, 95.2 QB rating
Career: 63.3% completions, 204.5 yards/game, 69-24 TD-INT ratio, 98.9 QB rating

Despite porous pass protection and a weakened receiving corps, Wilson has been as steady as a rock for this offense. That's a credit to his uncanny ability to elude the pressure. In fact, he's managed to actually cut down his INTs and do more damage on the ground - 727 rushing yards and 5 TDs so far.

I doubt you can find a QB who has been more consistent through his first three seasons. I know you can't find one who has more wins.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

.........Keep in mind Kaepernick still hasn't looked as good throwing the ball as he has since his first game in Chicago during the 2012 season..............

We all played the same waiting game with Kaepernick. We gave him all the weapons this year. This was suppose to be the year he took that next step. Instead he has regressed even with Boldin, Crab, Stevie, Lloyd, etc. I'm not ready to write him off 100% yet but if he's still not making plays from the pocket in the season next year, I think it would be time to move on...................

The difference between the two QBs is that Wilson has always had the mental processing capacity and understanding of the offense to progress through his reads and has since his first preseason start vs, KC in his rookie year (I posted thread about it after that game). Kaep never has and at this point, likely never will. To even suggest that Wilson has the same problem is looking at him through red and gold glasses. Wilson absolutely does miss open guys at times, but as he gains experience that will happen less frequently. Better pass pro would help that process as well. That has improved in the 2nd half of this season (Okung's health in large part).

 

[volsunghawk]

^^^^ As 9ers fans we're kinda between a rock and a hard place, because you're posting it for us, but completely objectively it was just kinda corny, not that funny, and pretty boilerplate in the slams (nothing more creative than the same stuff that gets posted here 40 times a day).

Objectively, yeah, the video was lame and not really funny. I can get behind the playful spirit of it, though.