For our 9er fans on this forum

[RationalNiner]

"Seahawk fans, what if you guys become the 2014 49ers?"

A little bit. Not exactly the same situation. But if RW doesn't take the next step (don't get me wrong, he is better than Kaepernick), you guys could run into some of the same issues.

 

[Marvin49]

Ok, so Seahawk fans:

I want your opinion on this. I think beast mode covers up a lot of weaknesses of that offense. You guys don't have a dominant OL and RW still hasn't developed into a highly effective pocket passer. Let's say RW really never progresses into that guy, the OL doesn't improve, and beast mode is not on the team next year? RW will also end up with a bigger contract than Kaepernick next season (with probably more guaranteed money).

Let's say beast mode is not on the team next year, the OL doesn't really improve, and RW is the same guy that can't make plays from the pocket on a consistent basis.

If RW doesn't develop into a good pocket passer within the next 2 seasons, you guys will NEED to find a new QB in order to continue being a dominant team because beast mode won't be there, you still have no legitimate WR threat, and who knows if the defense will continue being as dominant as they are.

basically:

"Seahawk fans, what if you guys become the 2014 49ers?"

I've actually made the argument that Lynch was the motor that made Seattle go in the past and was roundly crushed for it here. I think Wilson is a great player, but he gets a TON of room out there in the secondary because defenses are so afraid to not load the box vs Lynch.

I think I read Seattle leads the NFL by running play action like 50% of the time.

Then the dude extends the play and so few DBs back there just can't hold up forever.

When I've said that what I usually get back is that Wilson doesn't throw a ton because he isn't asked to. That's true...but to me I think it's kinda unknown what will happen when the THREAT of Lynch isn't back there anymore. I'm not just talking about teams slowing him down either because they are doing that with a stacked box. What happens when teams no longer respect the run and play more DBs in coverage?

Just have to see I guess. I dunno the answer.

 

[Popeyejones]

basically:

"Seahawk fans, what if you guys become the 2014 49ers?"

Kinda like that (and I've posted this before):


A lot of this is conditioned on Wilson developing and being able to replace Lynch, but for the Hawks managing the cap is even a bit more challenging than it has been for the 9ers this year, because all of the Hawks' talent is young. The ONLY upside of having your talent more evenly dispersed across age brackets is that you can get and keep people on lower value and lower year deals.

The Hawks simply don't have the second and third contract below market, at market, or short-contract vets that the 9ers have been able to lean on to at least keep them semi-competitive (e.g. Staley, Boldin, Justin Smith, Bethea, Gore, Stevie, Dorsey, McDonald). Those guys will all need to be replaced in the next 1 to 3 years obviously (and that can go wrong), but they're existence does a HELL OF A LOT in smoothing the transitions and decision making that the salary cap requires (e.g. the 9ers get a couple passes at drafting their replacements, and don't have to throw them on the field right away). While having a core of first and second contract talent is really cool and enviable, from a cap perspective, it really poses a lot of challenges. If you can make it work you can build a dynasty, but sheesh, it's just incredibly hard to make it work.

FWIW I also question what seems to be the Hawks' strategy of piecing together their O-Line from year-to-year. The 9ers do the same thing with their secondary (part of managing the cap on a talented team is ALWAYS picking one or two position groups to take money out of) but that ONLY works because of Fangio, IMO (i.e. they balance out a positional weakness with a coaching strength). I just don't see that balancing with the Hawks and their approach to their O-LINE, and it's an issue because it 1) increases their dependance on Lynch and 2) potentially retards Wilson's development, who they're going to have to increasingly rely on.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Ok, so Seahawk fans:

I want your opinion on this. I think beast mode covers up a lot of weaknesses of that offense. You guys don't have a dominant OL and RW still hasn't developed into a highly effective pocket passer. Let's say RW really never progresses into that guy, the OL doesn't improve, and beast mode is not on the team next year? RW will also end up with a bigger contract than Kaepernick next season (with probably more guaranteed money).

Let's say beast mode is not on the team next year, the OL doesn't really improve, and RW is the same guy that can't make plays from the pocket on a consistent basis. What then?

If RW doesn't develop into a good pocket passer within the next 2 seasons, you guys will NEED to find a new QB in order to continue being a dominant team because beast mode won't be there, you still have no legitimate WR threat, and who knows if the defense will continue being as dominant as they are.

That's a lot of if's, but you're on the right track if Marshawn leaves and improvements aren't made at the RB, WR or O-line position...........then offense will struggle.

BUT, I think if Marshawn leaves then Pete and John will do a good job of righting the ship with improvements to help keep the offense at least efficient enough to win with still a great defense.

Russell IMO is the great equalizer because he can make lemonade out of lemons, and that's why we drafted him and created a run based offense that caters to what he does best, scramble around and make plays.

 

[Largent80]

Jeezus, can anyone even have fun anymore without someone being offended?

What a pussy assed society we live in these days.

Bunch of lazy, thin skinned, Iphone watchin ,fat assed chodes.

Who's offended?

You don't have the power to offend me. To be offended, I'd have to care what you think. You burned that a LONG time ago.

Instead, I enjoy laughing at you and your attempts to "get" me.

Here ya go, the perfect 9er fan response.

I didn't make the video. I POSTED it. Therefore it is a representation of your fanbase by more than just me.

Who is trying to get you?....

I'm saying you guys are so friggin butt hurt and jealous that you need to reside here in some sorry of pseudo-masochistic fashion.

If you are here, so am I to call a spade a spade, you are simply an excuse making, have to have the last word poster on an opposing teams message board....It is......Pathetic.

 

[RationalNiner]

Russell IMO is the great equalizer because he can make lemonade out of lemons, and that's why we drafted him and created a run based offense that caters to what he does best, scramble around and make plays.

He'd be making more plays if he became an ultra efficient pocket passer. If he couldn't scramble like he does, he would not be a starter on his traditional QB play alone. He needs to take the next step next year. If he doesn't, I would begin to worry. Hopefully (or not =P) JS is smart enough to give him a contract in which they can easily cut ties with him like we did with Kaepernick.

 

[Marvin49]

Jeezus, can anyone even have fun anymore without someone being offended?

What a pussy assed society we live in these days.

Bunch of lazy, thin skinned, Iphone watchin ,fat assed chodes.

Who's offended?

You don't have the power to offend me. To be offended, I'd have to care what you think. You burned that a LONG time ago.

Instead, I enjoy laughing at you and your attempts to "get" me.

Here ya go, the perfect 9er fan response.

I didn't make the video. I POSTED it. Therefore it is a representation of your fanbase by more than just me.

Who is trying to get you?....

I'm saying you guys are so friggin butt hurt and jealous that you need to reside here in some sorry of pseudo-masochistic fashion.

If you are here, so am I to call a spade a spade, you are simply an excuse making, have to have the last word poster on an opposing teams message board....It is......Pathetic.

Who said it was just you?

You posted it to get a response, no? You complained about peeps getting offended and I told you I wasn't and that you don't have the ability. Stay on topic homey.

I dealt with the video maker in another post.

 

[Largent80]

How many times did you say YOU in the above posts?...You means ME as in Largent80.

Are you so delusional that you don't know what you are posting and who you are directing it at, even though you quoted that person?

Whatevaz..I'm done. I posted this in fun, but obviously the Butthurt is rather deep.

 

[Marvin49]

I've actually made the argument that Lynch was the motor that made Seattle go in the past and was roundly crushed for it here. I think Wilson is a great player, but he gets a TON of room out there in the secondary because defenses are so afraid to not load the box vs Lynch.

I think I read Seattle leads the NFL by running play action like 50% of the time.

Then the dude extends the play and so few DBs back there just can't hold up forever.

When I've said that what I usually get back is that Wilson doesn't throw a ton because he isn't asked to. That's true...but to me I think it's kinda unknown what will happen when the THREAT of Lynch isn't back there anymore. I'm not just talking about teams slowing him down either because they are doing that with a stacked box. What happens when teams no longer respect the run and play more DBs in coverage?

Just have to see I guess. I dunno the answer.

There is one thing you are forgetting though.

Pete went out and got Cable just so that he could create a run orientated team. The way this offensive line is coached and recruited is "run blocking first" that's why they don't have money tied up on the O line. That is the way they designed this team...

Bevel and Cable probably end up with head coaching jobs after this season.

If our OC's do move on and RW does get a contract, expect Pete to grab an offensive guru and start drafting pass protecting O linemen. But in either case, they'll make that decision together.

Unlike Trent and Jim, Pete and John are on the same page -- and that is the difference right there.

That's a pretty rosey picture. You could be right. I'm not saying Russ will fall apart or something. Just sayin' it's an unknown right now.

I do think you guys are underestimating how much of a difference losing Lynch will make. He routinely makes something out of nothing. Guy has him dead to rights and he runs over the dude and picks up 20.

Not many like him.

In terms of O-Line and pass protection, you could be right about the way the line is built, but that doesn't really have anything to do with my point. My point is teams having less respect for the run so play coverage differently...IE more defenders out there to defend the pass. That's a lot of what's happened to SF.

Frank isn't really Frank anymore. Hyde has had trouble between the tackles and the O-Line ain't really opening holes.

Teams not stacking the box like they did before and playing 2 deep safeties giving Colin a different look than he's had before.

Not saying Wilson can't handle it, but it does remain to be seen what happens when Lynch is gone.

 

[Marvin49]

How many times did you say YOU in the above posts?...You means ME as in Largent80.

Are you so delusional that you don't know what you are posting and who you are directing it at, even though you quoted that person?

Whatevaz..I'm done. I posted this in fun, but obviously the Butthurt is rather deep.

Sigh.

I WAS talking to YOU. YOU asked why peeps so easily offended. I answered YOU.

Really dude. Not complicated.

I said "who said it was JUST you". Is that too nuanced a statement?

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Ok, so Seahawk fans:

I want your opinion on this. I think beast mode covers up a lot of weaknesses of that offense. You guys don't have a dominant OL and RW still hasn't developed into a highly effective pocket passer. Let's say RW really never progresses into that guy, the OL doesn't improve, and beast mode is not on the team next year? RW will also end up with a bigger contract than Kaepernick next season (with probably more guaranteed money).

Let's say beast mode is not on the team next year, the OL doesn't really improve, and RW is the same guy that can't make plays from the pocket on a consistent basis. What then?

If RW doesn't develop into a good pocket passer within the next 2 seasons, you guys will NEED to find a new QB in order to continue being a dominant team because beast mode won't be there, you still have no legitimate WR threat, and who knows if the defense will continue being as dominant as they are.

First of all, you've said "let's say" to 2 or 3 different huge factors as it relates to Seattle's offense. So you're speaking hypothetically and must admit that. IMO the chances of Beast not being back next year are much higher than Wilson not getting better in the pocket and here's why I feel that way:
In the last several weeks he's looked better/more comfortable in the pocket now that the offense is adjusting to a new approach without Pussy Harvin.

I also fully expect the front office to get him more help at WR because our WR corps is pretty damned pedestrian. Hoping it's via FA and the guy steps right in and contributes and I'm also guessing he'll be a taller red zone target type.

Furthermore, we have 2 rooks that are developing and should be better next year.......remember, Tate didn't contribute much his first 2 years as a Hawk.

The o-line will get at least a little bit better because Britt will have a year under his belt and Sweezy will continue his upward arc in terms of ability. IF (and admittedly it's a big IF) Okung manages to mostly stay healthy and they are smart enough to re-sign LJP as Unger's backup I think the o-line will get a bit better.

Wilson's brains and work ethic will mean he'll improve from this year to next. Because of Pussy Harvin, his development has been "artificially" stunted a good portion of this year IMO. That's changing. Will he ever be Tom Brady? No, I don't think so but he could with experience approach that level. And that's not to mention anything about that "it factor" a lot of us believe he has, something you would know of if you were around to see Montana (don't know if you were or not, but he had it man.....so did Staubach) as it's not really quantifiable.



As for the question about "let's say" Beast isn't back. I will admit that it is definitely cause for more concern to me than your speculation about Wilson. My gut tells me he retires if the Hawks win another Super Bowl, but stays one more year if they don't. I think PC and JS won't just cut him and may even add to his contract because they know his value to the organization. If he does retire, I do think Michael and Turbin combined will do a decent job. Michael has impressed me with what I've seen of him.....very explosive. And also remember that Cable teaches a ZBS which is very much focused on run blocking technique so I do believe we'll be able to run the ball with some effectiveness. But obviously there's no way it will be as effective without the Beast so Wilson and the passing game will have to take up the slack. How much slack will be a determining factor in the success of the offense without Marshawn.

Lastly, you should in my opinion remember the quality of the defense this team has. Keep in mind we haven't lost a game by more than 9 points in like 3 years. We're in every game, every game and a lot of that has to do with a very good defense. Will thy lose some effectiveness if the O can't run as well? Probably, but IMO not enough to make us a .500 team.

To sum, I have faith in Russ and the passing game but am definitely concerned about the how much drop off there will be with the loss of 'Shawn. And remember, you're "let's say" scenario is the worst possible scenario. If either Russ gets better in the pocket and/or the o-line gets a bit better in pass pro or the run game suffers little then the Hawks won't be in as bad of shape as your "doomsday" scenario paints.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Ok, so Seahawk fans:

I want your opinion on this. I think beast mode covers up a lot of weaknesses of that offense. You guys don't have a dominant OL and RW still hasn't developed into a highly effective pocket passer. Let's say RW really never progresses into that guy, the OL doesn't improve, and beast mode is not on the team next year? RW will also end up with a bigger contract than Kaepernick next season (with probably more guaranteed money).

Let's say beast mode is not on the team next year, the OL doesn't really improve, and RW is the same guy that can't make plays from the pocket on a consistent basis. What then?

If RW doesn't develop into a good pocket passer within the next 2 seasons, you guys will NEED to find a new QB in order to continue being a dominant team because beast mode won't be there, you still have no legitimate WR threat, and who knows if the defense will continue being as dominant as they are.

First off, Darrel Bevell is the weak link IMO, Lynch and Wilson bail him out a lot.

I don't think that Wilson has to be the prototypical pocket passer to be successful as he has already proven, I think that trait is severely over rated by folks who don't take his rare athleticism and accuracy of throwing on the run into account. Can he be better? of course, but with a turnstyle O-line most of the time and a mental midget as his OC what he does works.

Not to rub in it, but if you want to see how Wilson passes from the pocket when he has time to scan the field, go watch XLVIII again. He was outstanding from the pocket hitting his 4th and 5th reads at times.

If Wilson was to be just a pocket passer with this o-line he'd get killed.

You put him behind Dallas' o-line with those receivers and you might be talking a lot of 14 and 15 regular season win seasons with a lot of accurate pocket passing as he wouldn't have to run for his life every other down.

Great post until your last part....
I think your last paragraph is complete hogwash FWIW, and more wishful thinking looking through Niner colored glasses. Sorry.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Jeezus, can anyone even have fun anymore without someone being offended?

What a pussy assed society we live in these days.

Bunch of lazy, thin skinned, Iphone watchin ,fat assed chodes.

Who's offended?

You don't have the power to offend me. To be offended, I'd have to care what you think. You burned that a LONG time ago.

Instead, I enjoy laughing at you and your attempts to "get" me.

Here ya go, the perfect 9er fan response.

I didn't make the video. I POSTED it. Therefore it is a representation of your fanbase by more than just me.

Who is trying to get you?....

I'm saying you guys are so friggin butt hurt and jealous that you need to reside here in some sorry of pseudo-masochistic fashion.

If you are here, so am I to call a spade a spade, you are simply an excuse making, have to have the last word poster on an opposing teams message board....It is......Pathetic.

Expect spin, dodge, and repeat......
It's Melvin's "go to" move.

 

[bigtrain21]

Ok, so Seahawk fans:

I want your opinion on this. I think beast mode covers up a lot of weaknesses of that offense. You guys don't have a dominant OL and RW still hasn't developed into a highly effective pocket passer. Let's say RW really never progresses into that guy, the OL doesn't improve, and beast mode is not on the team next year? RW will also end up with a bigger contract than Kaepernick next season (with probably more guaranteed money).

Let's say beast mode is not on the team next year, the OL doesn't really improve, and RW is the same guy that can't make plays from the pocket on a consistent basis. What then?

If RW doesn't develop into a good pocket passer within the next 2 seasons, you guys will NEED to find a new QB in order to continue being a dominant team because beast mode won't be there, you still have no legitimate WR threat, and who knows if the defense will continue being as dominant as they are.

This is what we had to brace ourselves for?

 

[Maulbert]

What I don't understand is why fans of opposing teams view each other as alien species.

I appreciate an outsider opinion on my team and an outsider opinion is very valuable because sometimes you're so stuck in all the little details of your own team that you miss the bigger picture that only an outsider can see.

I haven't really bothered posting what I think about Seattle's future because it seems like people here would take it the wrong way.

No worries.

Its just easier for fans to assume all fans fit the caricature that is easy to argue with.

IE...5 rings. Don't think myself, Popeye, you, or many other Niner fans who FREQUENT this site have ever made the 5 ring argument...but it's an easy one to argue with and make fun of so its brought up more often by Seattle fans than Niner fans (here anyway). Do some Niner fans do it? Yup. It's hardly the norm tho.

That's not funny to them tho. What's funny is a vid by a moron who puts on a red jersey and acts like an idiot, complete with a dumb little voice. Reminds me of Jerry Lewis pretending to be Chinese in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Just a caricature of a stereotype.

That guy needs a life tho. I mean seriously...he actually spent time on that thing. Sad really.

That was Mickey Rooney, not Jerry Lewis.

 

[irocdave]

Our local niner fans are picking up on what some Hawk fans are putting down. Those same home town hawk fans get trashed by the oblivious homers. That vid was retarded BTW.

Paying Wilson this offseason and the possibility of Lynch leaving is a legitimate concern. RW is going to get paid this offseason (and it's well deserved) and it will impact the structure of the team, no matter how much some here want to ignore that fact. Lynch IS the consistent dominating factor of the hawks offense. Any hawk homer knows this, Wilson is a close second. Take Lynch away and there's no way in hell RW gets the yards on the ground or same amount of time to pass in the pocket.....
The reasons for Wilson not being a true hybrid pocket passer / running QB has to do with a poor offensive line and questionable receivers. Not having a dominate TE is probably a bigger issue this year. RW can adapt to any style of offense if he has the supporting cast though. When he becomes the golden goose financially the profile of the hawks will change, it has to. To say it wont is just dumb. You cant take 15- 20 percent of your salary cap and invest it to one player and not spend more money to protect that golden goose. As of today the hawks have spent little on protecting RW, i.e. the O line. Will Russell Okung get a big contract? How about the rest of the Oline that are up? Pay those guys to protect RW then is there enough left for BW's? KJ? Maxwell, draft, FA's?

Not that this matters for the hawks Super Bowl run this year, but next year , yes it matters. That said, I don't give a crap about the 2015 season, two in a row is more important right now. I'll take a set back in 2015.

 

[RationalNiner]

To the other two hawk fans that have replied to my post, yes Wilson played well in last season's SB. There is no doubting that. But he just isn't consistent. Keep in mind Kaepernick still hasn't looked as good throwing the ball as he has since his first game in Chicago during the 2012 season.

What's key here is consistency. The fact that Wilson still hasn't shown he can be a consistent pocket passer is reason for concern, not huge concern, but if he still not able to do it next year, that concern should rise significantly.

We all played the same waiting game with Kaepernick. We gave him all the weapons this year. This was suppose to be the year he took that next step. Instead he has regressed even with Boldin, Crab, Stevie, Lloyd, etc. I'm not ready to write him off 100% yet but if he's still not making plays from the pocket in the season next year, I think it would be time to move on.

Making plays from the pocket is extremely important. A lot of passing plays are based on timing and get rid of the ball quickly. When you are scrambling around all the time, it ruins that in a sense.

RW needs to take the next step next year, and if he doesn't, I think you guys should begin to worry about the future. I would make sure that it is easy to part ways with RW when structuring his new contract in case it turns out he can't put the team on his back without Beast mode and the defense continuing their dominance.

Dominant defenses seem historically lose their dominance over the time, as with most things that hit their peak. The bears only regressed since 1985. The 2000 ravens regressed as time went on. 2011 to now, Niner's defense has regressed. The 2014 Seahawks have slightly regressed since last season but it appears they are coming back into form. Can they continue next season? Maybe, but not as dominant.

Point is eventually RW is gonna need to be able to carry the team on his back with a big contract, like all the franchise QBs have done. And if beast mode is gone next year, he might need to step up his game as early as then. Remember, franchise QBs don't need perfect situations to succeed. Tom Brady is getting done with pretty pedestrian receivers outside of Gronk, IMO. Manning did not exactly have a world class oline when he was with the colts. The only notable player from that unit was Saturday.

Even if you guys hit on your future draft picks with receivers and Oline men, without Russell taking the next step, it'll be cause for concern. As an outsider looking in, Russell SHOULD have taken his game to the next level this year, especially after the great SB performance, but he largely looks like the same player from last year. We all had the same hope for Kaepernick and us niner fans rationalized that he would be able to take the next step with new receivers and we got lost in all the details so we miss the big picture and use those details to rationalize what we want to believe.

Russell is an affable guy and I wish him well in his career and I do hope he takes the next step as he can be exciting to watch but I'm beginning to wonder. I definitely thought he was gonna take the next step this season.

 

[RationalNiner]

Russell Wilson grew up a 49er fan. Do you think he ever used the five ring argument? :lol:

 

[hawknation2014]

Russell Wilson grew up a 49er fan. Do you think he ever used the five ring argument? :lol:

Nah, Russell Wilson grew up a Saints fan. You must be thinking of Pete Carroll, who grew up in the Bay Area liking the 49ers.

 

[bigtrain21]

Russell Wilson grew up a 49er fan. Do you think he ever used the five ring argument? :lol:

He was 5 years old when they won their last one. He was 13 when the Niners started their streak of 8 straight non winning seasons. I doubt he brought up such ancient history. I also don't think he would become a Niners fan.