Fire Pete

[Fade]

Our fan base leaves the impression that we are petulant fools with whinny threads like this.

They returned to the Super Bowl and narrowly lost.

The next year, they won double digit victories for the 4th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to players like Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham, had one of the best offenses in franchise history, and finished with the #1 scoring defense for the 4th-straight season.

The next year, they won double digit victories for the 5th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to Russell Wilson that slowed the offense, improved on their record from the prior year, won the NFC West, won a playoff game for the 5th-straight year, and were #1 in scoring defense once again until an Earl Thomas injury ended their streak and derailed the season.

The next year, they narrowly missed the playoffs due to multiple injuries, won 9 games, and finally fired their offensive coaching staff.

I agree. In Ruskell we trust.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Pete has always needed better players than the other team to win.

He does not have them now. So he isn't winning as much.

It really is that simple.

As it is, with the roster he had, winning one SB, losing another and literally doing nothing else in the playoffs for close to 4 years more...is underperforming. Which is another thing Pete is known for.

But given that - what he has done in the past is immaterial. It is what he is doing now and will do that matters.

Pete isn't going to take this team to the playoffs this year. Period.

He is a defensive minded coach whose best resources are now on offense. So he can take an average to below average defense and make it slightly above average. But he is also going to disregard our best offensive options because he is too old to change.

He makes defenses better and offenses worse. Much worse. So he cannot win with an offensive first team and he won't even try.

Also, he isn't going to take them to the playoffs next year. Not with this brand and style of football. Not dragging a recalcitrant Wilson through the mud and derailing what made him successful in the first place.

I imagine after that Wilson gets into a fight with the Hawks about tagging and that becomes the excuse for why he cannot reach the playoffs then.

Pete has gotten old, and his football has gotten dated. Eventually, the choice between Wilson or Pete is going to be made for us.

 

[hawknation2018]

Our fan base leaves the impression that we are petulant fools with whinny threads like this.

They returned to the Super Bowl and narrowly lost.

The next year, they won double digit victories for the 4th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to players like Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham, had one of the best offenses in franchise history, and finished with the #1 scoring defense for the 4th-straight season.

The next year, they won double digit victories for the 5th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to Russell Wilson that slowed the offense, improved on their record from the prior year, won the NFC West, won a playoff game for the 5th-straight year, and were #1 in scoring defense once again until an Earl Thomas injury ended their streak and derailed the season.

The next year, they narrowly missed the playoffs due to multiple injuries, won 9 games, and finally fired their offensive coaching staff.

I agree. In Ruskell we trust.

Ruskell was a not a coach, did not win a Super Bowl, and the team did not have half the success that Carroll and Schneider have achieved.

Your “what has Carroll done in the last five years” whine is oblivious.

 

[Fade]

Our fan base leaves the impression that we are petulant fools with whinny threads like this.

They returned to the Super Bowl and narrowly lost.

The next year, they won double digit victories for the 4th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to players like Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham, had one of the best offenses in franchise history, and finished with the #1 scoring defense for the 4th-straight season.

The next year, they won double digit victories for the 5th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to Russell Wilson that slowed the offense, improved on their record from the prior year, won the NFC West, won a playoff game for the 5th-straight year, and were #1 in scoring defense once again until an Earl Thomas injury ended their streak and derailed the season.

The next year, they narrowly missed the playoffs due to multiple injuries, won 9 games, and finally fired their offensive coaching staff.

I agree. In Ruskell we trust.

Ruskell was a not a coach, did not win a Super Bowl, and the team did not have half the success that Carroll and Schneider have achieved.

Your “what has Carroll done in the last five years” whine is oblivious.

The same logic applies. When Ruskell was questioned 10 yrs ago.

You had the apologists coming out of the woodwork.

-> "You're spoiled", "Stop whining", "Insert insult here".
-> "He brought us to our 1st superbowl!"
-> "His teams made the playoffs 3 straight years, a franchise first."
-> "2008, the team was too injured, this year doesn't count.", etc.

Sound familiar ?

But when the body of evidence begins to mount over the course of time. I think the last 5 seasons ('14-'18) would suffice. It's not hard to see what the problem is.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/10/...ll-might-be-holding-the-seattle-seahawks-back

 

[Fade]

^^^^^^^^ :177692:
You've convinced me Fade.

Your hatred for Pete Carroll is undeniable.

I love how you confuse truth with hate. :mrgreen: :irishdrinkers:

 

[KiwiHawk]

The same logic applies. When Ruskell was questioned 10 yrs ago.

You had the apologists coming out of the woodwork.

-> "You're spoiled", "Stop whining", "Insert insult here".
-> "He brought us to our 1st superbowl!"
-> "His teams made the playoffs 3 straight years, a franchise first."
-> "2008, the team was too injured, this year doesn't count.", etc.

Sound familiar ?

But when the body of evidence begins to mount over the course of time. I think the last 5 seasons ('14-'18) would suffice. It's not hard to see what the problem is.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/10/...ll-might-be-holding-the-seattle-seahawks-back

Speaking of logic, don't get caught up in false dilemma. You look at the record over the past couple of years and lay the blame ate Pete's feet. That's one of many possible explanations. An unusual frequency of injuries to key personnel is another possible explanation, but that's not explored because it doesn't support your narrative.

The housecleaning came because Pete lost control. That's one explanation. Another is that players get older and tend to have more injuries as they age. Maybe it's time to move on because it's time to move on.

And now "Sound familiar"? Carroll = Ruskell is one explanation. Another is that you cherry pick the parallels to make it look similar when in fact there are as many or more areas of difference than similarity. For example, Ruskell inherited a team that only needed a small bit of help on the defense to get it over the line. Pete inherited a team that won 4 games the previous season, and even then managed to coach it to the playoffs.

But again, it's easier to apply a false dilemma than entertain the additional factors, because it fits your narrative.

So when applying logic, use real logic, not false logic.

 

[seedhawk]

Perhaps Pete needs to be reigned in a bit like Holmgren was. When Holmgren was just a coach, and not wearing the GM hat also, the Hawks played better football. Currently, it looks like Pete has too much on his plate, and too small of a fork.

 

[justafan]

I dont want him fired but it will be refreshing to have a new faces so we can have new arguments about why they should fire the next group.

The same old discussion gets old. Its all been said.

 

[Fade]

Speaking of logic, don't get caught up in false dilemma. You look at the record over the past couple of years and lay the blame ate Pete's feet. That's one of many possible explanations. An unusual frequency of injuries to key personnel is another possible explanation, but that's not explored because it doesn't support your narrative.

The housecleaning came because Pete lost control. That's one explanation. Another is that players get older and tend to have more injuries as they age. Maybe it's time to move on because it's time to move on.

And now "Sound familiar"? Carroll = Ruskell is one explanation. Another is that you cherry pick the parallels to make it look similar when in fact there are as many or more areas of difference than similarity. For example, Ruskell inherited a team that only needed a small bit of help on the defense to get it over the line. Pete inherited a team that won 4 games the previous season, and even then managed to coach it to the playoffs.

But again, it's easier to apply a false dilemma than entertain the additional factors, because it fits your narrative.

So when applying logic, use real logic, not false logic.

1) :34853_doh: My point about Ruskell is "blind faith", and how it makes people look foolish. That point sailed over your head as well.

2) Fact : Pete Carroll is in charge of the whole org. when it pertains to football operations. Only Paul Allen can tell him no. (Paul remains mostly hands off.)

The Problem is either -

A) Pete Carroll has made a lot of poor decisions in UFAs, Trades, Draft Picks. Offensive Philosophy, Coaching, Game management, Hiring & Firing of Coaches, and handling of the lockeroom. Leading to a net negative downward trend for a half-decade with no end in sight.

-or-

B) Pete Carroll deferred to his underlings and remained mostly hands-off, standing by and watching his crew under-perform as the ship sank. Leading to a net negative downward trend for a half-decade with no end in sight.

Maybe he is guilty of both.

At the end of the day though either choice leads to Pete Carroll being at fault. He is the skipper of the ship.

Conclusion -

Pete Carroll is no longer capable (for whatever reason that might be) to be in charge of football operations. If he would like to remain as the Head Coach, he must do so in a reduced role. Where he is just the Head Coach, and focuses primarily on defense.


https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/10/...ll-might-be-holding-the-seattle-seahawks-back

 

[Fade]

Perhaps Pete needs to be reigned in a bit like Holmgren was. When Holmgren was just a coach, and not wearing the GM hat also, the Hawks played better football. Currently, it looks like Pete has too much on his plate, and too small of a fork.

This has been my point the whole time. Yet get branded a "hater". :mrgreen:

The big problem is, I don't think Pete will accept a reduced role.

Regardless at his advanced age (oldest coach in the league.) With only 1 yr remaining on his contract he won't be here much longer. He will either get a 1 yr extension in the off-season to avoid being a lame duck. Or he will be fired.

 

[Donn2390]

Well, all of ye of little faith, are we still firing Pete and John and trading Russ?
...and don't forget Shotty, he's a bum too, right?

 

[KiwiHawk]

Unfair thread necro.

People have emotions after a win or a loss, and what someone may feel after a bad loss may not be the same way they feel after a solid win. They are allowed to change their minds. That's often in fact the purpose of constructive discussion. You don't make a solid argument, get someone to agree with you, then slam him for being inconsistent.

This is exactly why thread necromancy is bad.

It would be better to start a new topic like "What do all you haters think now? Nya Nya" or something equally as enlightened.

Please note I am not one of the afore-mentioned "haters" - I've been consistently supportive of PC and the front office - I'm just against thread necromancy because it's evil.

 

[rcaido]

Nope it's good to see necro stupidity by ungrateful fans. People should keep bumping this idiotic thread...just as bad as trading wilson.

 

[adeltaY]

As long as we are at worst one game out of the Wild Card playoff spot, I'm fine with Pete. I expect playoffs every season, but I understand we are retooling/rebuilding.

 

[poly1274]

Nope it's good to see necro stupidity by ungrateful fans. People should keep bumping this idiotic thread...just as bad as trading wilson.

I would love to trade RW.

To a non contender playoff team 2 1st round picks.

To a contender playoff team like Jags 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks.

 

[Mad Dog]

Unfair thread necro.

People have emotions after a win or a loss, and what someone may feel after a bad loss may not be the same way they feel after a solid win. They are allowed to change their minds. That's often in fact the purpose of constructive discussion. You don't make a solid argument, get someone to agree with you, then slam him for being inconsistent.

This is exactly why thread necromancy is bad.

It would be better to start a new topic like "What do all you haters think now? Nya Nya" or something equally as enlightened.

Please note I am not one of the afore-mentioned "haters" - I've been consistently supportive of PC and the front office - I'm just against thread necromancy because it's evil.

That’s BS. Some people are constant negative nancies that seem to derive pleasure from trashing everything around them. We shouldn’t be “giving them a break” for being emotional after a loss. Necrobumps are useful to teach those people perspective and to learn to temper their negativity. Otherwise they persist in posting extremely down hearted and straight slanderous comments about players and coaches with proven track records.

I wish more posts were necro bumped to point out the short sighted behavior of some of our fans. The number of overly negative posters to overly positive posters is heavily skewed to negativity imo and a correction is not a bad thing for anyone. Positive folks will get tired of defending themselves and just leave otherwise.

 

[rcaido]

Nope it's good to see necro stupidity by ungrateful fans. People should keep bumping this idiotic thread...just as bad as trading wilson.

I would love to trade RW.

To a non contender playoff team 2 1st round picks.

To a contender playoff team like Jags 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks.

Of course you would. Let's get rid of a hof qb still in his prime. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Mad Dog]

Nope it's good to see necro stupidity by ungrateful fans. People should keep bumping this idiotic thread...just as bad as trading wilson.

I would love to trade RW.

To a non contender playoff team 2 1st round picks.

To a contender playoff team like Jags 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks.

Until there are 32 starting quality QBs in the league, you don’t trade your franchise.

 

[toffee]

This thread has been quiet since Oct 4th, quite sure it will reignite once we lost another ugly game.

 

[chris98251]

Well I would say his philosophy on the running game is still Valid look at us since we can run, look at the Rams since they can run, Vikings were good last year because they could run.


We all or mostly were wondering what the hell they were doing bringing in these F.A. and putting them on IR, well they are playing and helping now, we also wanted to know why none of the DB's were playing yet we drafted yet looking now we have Thompson and Flowers and Griffin playing.


So it's safe to say they had a good plan, just because we don't know how they are going to implement things does'nt make it wrong. There has been a lot of Filed Gull shit lately that has been condemning Pete and this team, which makes them anti Pete it seems so anything they have to say I am now looking at as biased against our F.O.


Pete has made mistakes as has every other GM, Coach, President of operations. He is to loyal and stays with some stuff to long out of that loyalty both with players and Coaches, the mixed message about always compete and the accountabilty aspect was what pissed players off. Cable and Bevell were not held to those same standards and throwing Lockette under the bus was unforgivable by the players.