Fire Pete

[Jville]

I remember, all too well, the mob that called for the firing of Chuck Knox and his brand of winning football. Realization of their wish ushered an age of darkness and hopelessness the likes of which no fan base should ever be expected to persevere.

Today's later day mob calling for Pete's head isn't any smarter than the mob that called for Chuck's head. It's beyond dumb .... it's ignorant of past lessons.

I like this Pete Carroll Program.

 

[Fade]

In Pete I Trust!

Hard hitting analysis.

What has Pete done in the last 5 years to warrant such blind faith?

Stick with Cable & Bevell? Replace Bevell with Schotty?

Sign Eddy Lacey? Cary Williams? Joeckel?

Drafting Rashard Penny? Ifedi?

Burning a 1st & your pro-bowl Center on Jimmy Graham, and then proceed to comically misutilize him?

Letting major UFA's walk in Jimmy Graham & Sheldon Richardson, and then sign bum UFAs that cancel out your comp picks?

Piss off veteran players like Marshawn Lynch, Richard Sherman, ET, Michael Bennett?

Cliff Avril stating publicly he never listened to Pete. (Probably the majority of the team tuned him out.) ?

Not Signing Earl Thomas or trading him for a draft pick Pick(s) (Piss or get off the pot.) ?

Letting Okung walk, and proceed to ignore LT for 1.5 seasons? Leaving the QB's blindside unprotected?

Getting your franchise QB pummeled into the ground for 4 years, with trash O-Lines & a dated scheme?

Get rid of a good kicker, for spotty kickers?

The decreased amount of wins for going on 5 consecutive seasons?

Having only 4 draft picks going into the 2019 NFL Draft when you're supposed to be rebuilding?

Tell me please, I want to know????

 

[mrt144]

I remember, all too well, the mob that called for the firing of Chuck Knox and his brand of winning football. Realization of their wish ushered an age of darkness and hopelessness the likes of which no fan base should ever be expected to persevere.

Today's later day mob calling for Pete's head isn't any smarter than the mob that called for Chuck's head. It's beyond dumb .... it's ignorant of past lessons.

I like this Pete Carroll Program.

Whether we wish for it or not, Pete isn't going to coach forever and then what?

 

[Jville]

In Pete I Trust!

Hard hitting analysis.

What has Pete done in the last 5 years to warrant such blind faith?

Stick with Cable & Bevell? Replace Bevell with Schotty?

Sign Eddy Lacey? Cary Williams? Joeckel?

Drafting Rashard Penny? Ifedi?

Burning a 1st & your pro-bowl Center on Jimmy Graham, and then proceed to comically misutilize him?

Letting major UFA's walk in Jimmy Graham & Sheldon Richardson, and then sign bum UFAs that cancel out your comp picks?

Piss off veteran players like Marshawn Lynch, Richard Sherman, ET, Michael Bennett?

Cliff Avril stating publicly he never listened to Pete. (Probably the majority of the team tuned him out.) ?

Not Signing Earl Thomas or trading him for a draft pick Pick(s) (Piss or get off the pot.) ?

Letting Okung walk, and proceed to ignore LT for 1.5 seasons? Leaving the QB's blindside unprotected?

Getting your franchise QB pummeled into the ground for 4 years, with trash O-Lines & a dated scheme?

Get rid of a good kicker, for spotty kickers?

The decreased amount of wins for going on 5 consecutive seasons?

Having only 4 draft picks going into the 2019 NFL Draft when you're supposed to be rebuilding?

Tell me please, I want to know????

Sounds like you have put a lot into building a collection of grievances. How's that working out for you. Happy?

 

[Fade]

Sounds like you have put a lot into building a collection of grievances. How's that working out for you. Happy?

I am fine bro. I find Kool-Aid drinkers funny. I am laughing at these clowns.

All of that was off the top of my head, I probably left some out, Pete has done a bad job over the last 5 years if you have been paying attention.

 

[adeltaY]

You just dismissed his points out of hand with zero attempt at analysis or discussion. How is that helpful unless you're making fun of a troll which Fade clearly isn't?

 

[Jville]

Sounds like you have put a lot into building a collection of grievances. How's that working out for you. Happy?

I am fine bro. I find Kool-Aid drinkers funny. I am laughing at these clowns.

All of that was off the top of my head, I probably left some out, Pete has done a bad job over the last 5 years if you have been paying attention.

So a couple of follow up questions might be .......

What do you think of use of a Ben Franklin chart or some variation there of to render a sound balanced assessment?

What did you think of Chuck Knox and the aftermath that followed his firing?

 

[Fade]

Sounds like you have put a lot into building a collection of grievances. How's that working out for you. Happy?

I am fine bro. I find Kool-Aid drinkers funny. I am laughing at these clowns.

All of that was off the top of my head, I probably left some out, Pete has done a bad job over the last 5 years if you have been paying attention.

So a couple of follow up questions might be .......

What do you think of use of a Ben Franklin chart or some variation there of to come to a sound assessment?

What did you think of Chuck Knox and the aftermath that followed his firing?

Pete should've used a Ben Franklin type of chart, maybe he would've made more sound decisions. A lot of his moves have come off as reactionary. With the Jimmy Graham move being the poster child.

Chuck Knox was a very good coach, and his downturn was due to bad ownership, and he did not have the resources Pete has, and has had to build a winner.

Pete is also 5 yrs older than when Knox coached his final season. Pete doesn't have a future imo going forward as a head of football operations guy in charge of everything. He needs to relinquish power in personnel, and on offense. Focus on being a head coach, and running his defense. Only that. If he cannot accept that, then it is time to move on.

If poster's come at me with kool-aid. They are going to get this work.

Now what has Pete done in the last 5 yrs to incite such faith?

 

[Jville]

So a couple of follow up questions might be .......

What do you think of use of a Ben Franklin chart or some variation there of to come to a sound assessment?

What did you think of Chuck Knox and the aftermath that followed his firing?

Pete should've used a Ben Franklin type of chart, maybe he would've made more sound decisions. A lot of his moves have come off as reactionary. With the Jimmy Graham move being the poster child.

Chuck Knox was a very good coach, and his downturn was due to bad ownership, and he did not have the resources Pete has, and has had to build a winner.

Pete is also 5 yrs older than when Knox coached his final season. Pete doesn't have a future imo going forward as a head of football operations guy in charge of everything. He needs to relinquish power in personnel, and on offense. Focus on being a head coach, and running his defense. Only that. If he cannot accept that, then it is time to move on.

If poster's come at me with kool-aid. They are going to get this work.

Now what has Pete done in the last 5 yrs to incite such faith?

My Ben Franklin question was in response to an all negative list offered up. Nobody, including the Seahawks, bats a thousand with personnel decisions. There are many positive acknowledgements such as the emergence of such rookies as Will Dissley and veteran acquisitions like Bradley McDougald.

With Chuck Knox, his offensive and defensive and special teams preferences all fit together. They reinforced each other. Seems to me the same is true with Pete along with other successful coaches. It all must work hand in hand reinforcing each other as a unified style of football.

What I really like about Pete Carroll is the culture he has built. Along with the consensuses building that Paul Allen mandates in making franchise decisions.

 

[mrt144]

So a couple of follow up questions might be .......

What do you think of use of a Ben Franklin chart or some variation there of to come to a sound assessment?

What did you think of Chuck Knox and the aftermath that followed his firing?

Pete should've used a Ben Franklin type of chart, maybe he would've made more sound decisions. A lot of his moves have come off as reactionary. With the Jimmy Graham move being the poster child.

Chuck Knox was a very good coach, and his downturn was due to bad ownership, and he did not have the resources Pete has, and has had to build a winner.

Pete is also 5 yrs older than when Knox coached his final season. Pete doesn't have a future imo going forward as a head of football operations guy in charge of everything. He needs to relinquish power in personnel, and on offense. Focus on being a head coach, and running his defense. Only that. If he cannot accept that, then it is time to move on.

If poster's come at me with kool-aid. They are going to get this work.

Now what has Pete done in the last 5 yrs to incite such faith?

My Ben Franklin question was in response to an all negative list offered up. Nobody, including the Seahawks, bats a thousand with personnel decisions. There are positive acknowledgements such as the emergence of such rookies as Will Dissley and veteran acquisitions like Bradley McDougald.

With Chuck Knox, his offensive and defensive and special teams preferences all fit together. They reinforced each other. Seems to me the same is true with Pete along with other successful coaches. It all must work hand in hand reinforcing each other as a unified style of football.

What I really like about Pete Carroll is the culture he has built. Along with the consensuses building that Paul Allen mandates in making franchise decisions.

I wish that the culture wasn't so holistic that it seems spiteful at times.

 

[Jville]

My Ben Franklin question was in response to an all negative list offered up. Nobody, including the Seahawks, bats a thousand with personnel decisions. There are positive acknowledgements such as the emergence of such rookies as Will Dissley and veteran acquisitions like Bradley McDougald.

With Chuck Knox, his offensive and defensive and special teams preferences all fit together. They reinforced each other. Seems to me the same is true with Pete along with other successful coaches. It all must work hand in hand reinforcing each other as a unified style of football.

What I really like about Pete Carroll is the culture he has built. Along with the consensuses building that Paul Allen mandates in making franchise decisions.

I wish that the culture wasn't so holistic that it seems spiteful at times.

That's certainly understandable. We on the outside are not intimately engaged in that VMAC culture and are often prone to misinterpret.

 

[hoxrox]

In Pete I Trust!

Hard hitting analysis.

What has Pete done in the last 5 years to warrant such blind faith?

Stick with Cable & Bevell? Replace Bevell with Schotty?

Sign Eddy Lacey? Cary Williams? Joeckel?

Drafting Rashard Penny? Ifedi?

Burning a 1st & your pro-bowl Center on Jimmy Graham, and then proceed to comically misutilize him?

Letting major UFA's walk in Jimmy Graham & Sheldon Richardson, and then sign bum UFAs that cancel out your comp picks?

Piss off veteran players like Marshawn Lynch, Richard Sherman, ET, Michael Bennett?

Cliff Avril stating publicly he never listened to Pete. (Probably the majority of the team tuned him out.) ?

Not Signing Earl Thomas or trading him for a draft pick Pick(s) (Piss or get off the pot.) ?

Letting Okung walk, and proceed to ignore LT for 1.5 seasons? Leaving the QB's blindside unprotected?

Getting your franchise QB pummeled into the ground for 4 years, with trash O-Lines & a dated scheme?

Get rid of a good kicker, for spotty kickers?

The decreased amount of wins for going on 5 consecutive seasons?

Having only 4 draft picks going into the 2019 NFL Draft when you're supposed to be rebuilding?

Tell me please, I want to know????

A lot of these situations sound more like a JS issue than a PC issue. I don't think Pete micro manages or overrides managers, scouts, assistants or players to the extent that you think he does. In fact, he lets "Marshawn be Marshawn" etc. That's just his style.

But why should he be given a longer leash? Because this is basically a freshmen class. And he's proven his ability to develop young players into future stars. His coaching is proven, his overall formula and philosophy has since 2013 been emulated by many teams in the league.

The real problem is the level of young talent we currently have on the roster, and not all of that is on Pete.

 

[Fade]

My Ben Franklin question was in response to an all negative list offered up. Nobody, including the Seahawks, bats a thousand with personnel decisions. There are many positive acknowledgements such as the emergence of such rookies as Will Dissley and veteran acquisitions like Bradley McDougald.

Dissly & McDougald is not many, and cannot make up for what has transpired over the last 5 years. I gave you a laundry list of players, coaches, scheme problems, lockeroom issues, etc. Very telling, and proves my point quite emphatically.

With Chuck Knox, his offensive and defensive and special teams preferences all fit together. They reinforced each other. Seems to me the same is true with Pete along with other successful coaches. It all must work hand in hand reinforcing each other as a unified style of football.

If only football was still being played in the 80's where there was no salary cap, had the long term player control, and the rules of yesteryear.

Top flight pass rush units, & or Franchise QBs win the Superbowls In the modern game.

Sure you can site 7 of the top 10 running teams made the playoffs last year, but it is mainly due to circumstance. Having the lead for the majority of the game, and getting to run the clock out in the 2nd half. This is how modern football is now played. Well coached teams jump out to a big lead, and then run the clock out in the 2nd half. In a mixture of ways I might add, getting the ball to a variety of players. Pete just wants to start running the clock out from the beginning against loaded boxes, and then throw it when he should run it on short yardage plays. Modern teams are now also getting more production out of running it with the QB, and WRs on the perimeter, in college spread concepts. De-emphasizing the traditional running game even more. Pete Carroll's offense is so far behind the times it will cancel out any significant improvement the defense will make.

Franchise QB > Top Flight Pass Rush > O-Line (Pass blockers)> Secondary > Linebackers > Running Game (Run blockers). Is how talent acquistion priority is in the modern game. Especially since RBs can be had in the later rounds. (The best RB on the team is a 7th rdr.)

Pete has prioritized a certain one over the others the last few years, and it has put him in the whole he finds himself in.

J'Macus Webb
Germain Ifedi
Rhees Odhiambo
CJ Prosise
Alex Collins (cut)
Eddie Lacey
Luke Joeckel
Rashard Penny

Significant money and draft capitol was spent on these players to fix the running game. When most of the major capitol should've been spent on assets that are hard to acquire / find, Pass protectors, and Pass rushers.

The rungame doesn't need significant capitol. 7th rdr Carson, off the scrap heap Mike Davis, cheap UFA's Fluker & Sweezy can do it just fine. Pete built the team backwards in an outdated fashion, while surrounding himself with "yes" men. Now he will be gone in 2 yrs or less.

What I really like about Pete Carroll is the culture he has built.

Did you stop watching games 5 years ago or something?


This culture?






The team turning on him so he had to blow the whole thing up, and fire most of his coaching staff... culture?

https://www.barstoolsports.com/vira...ng-pete-carroll-after-the-malcolm-butler-play

Wow! Thx for the laughs buddy.

 

[Jville]

^^^^^^^^ :177692:
You've convinced me Fade.



Your hatred for Pete Carroll is undeniable.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

When a team is losing, it’s easy to point at the coach. Last year it was Bevell, this year it is Pete. How have these new coaches worked out:

Shannahan in SF
Wilkes in Arizona
Vance Joseph in Denver
Sean McDermott in Buffalo
Matt Patricia in Detroit
Jon Gruden in Oakland
Pat Shurmer in NY
Frank Reich in Indi

My point is, changing the coach doesn’t guarantee squat. Bad teams fire their coach and still suck with the new coach. We are 2-2, do you guys actually think some other coach would have us at 3-1? For every Sean McVay hire there are 3 failed or lateral coaching hires. Pete isn’t getting fired, at least not anytime soon.

 

[adeltaY]

When a team is losing, it’s easy to point at the coach. Last year it was Bevell, this year it is Pete. How have these new coaches worked out:

Shannahan in SF
Wilkes in Arizona
Vance Joseph in Denver
Sean McDermott in Buffalo
Matt Patricia in Detroit
Jon Gruden in Oakland
Pat Shurmer in NY
Frank Reich in Indi

My point is, changing the coach doesn’t guarantee squat. Bad teams fire their coach and still suck with the new coach. We are 2-2, do you guys actually think some other coach would have us at 3-1? For every Sean McVay hire there are 3 failed or lateral coaching hires. Pete isn’t getting fired, at least not anytime soon.

Which one of those coaches was an exciting hire except for Shanahan, the only guy who has his team competitive with a really bad QB situation? In the eight games with a legitimate starting QB, Shanahan was 6-2. He's a good coach.

Jon Gruden was a perplexing hire from the point of trying to win football games. The guy's been out of the league for ages and had a big hand in trading Mack and seems to have instigated a schism in the personnel department.

Frank Reich and Pat Shurmur came into terrible teams with very little talent and have just started.

Vance Joseph was the defensive coordinator for a pretty bad Miami defense and somehow got hired as a HC? Steve Wilkes is similar. Was he DC of the Panthers for more than a year? Matt Patricia was also DC for a pretty meh defense.

I don't want Pete gone because I like him a lot and he is a defensive wizard, but we need a change in offense and we need it ASAP. I posted in another thread, but RW's per game stats so far this year are alarmingly close to Tarvaris Jackson's in 2011. How is that acceptable in any way? We have a great QB in his prime and you wouldn't know it if you watched the Hawks this year. That's very frustrating.

 

[JGreen79]

I'm happy for what Carroll has brought us, but I can no longer say he is actually elevating the team. Things could be worse than Carroll, but with Carroll I think we are going to stuck with a team that hovers around 7-9 each season, plus or minus a few wins -- essentially Jeff Fisher territory. I think he could have more success if he gives up all control of offensive play calling, and planning, but that won't happen.

That would put Seattle right on par with the history of the franchise. Seattle has finished between 7 and 9 wins 50% of the seasons they've been around. The Panthers are 2nd with 48% of the time.

If you want to up it to between 6 and 10 wins, Seattle has done that 74% of the time. The closest is the Redskins at 64%.

A Pete Carroll coached team accounts for 3 of the 21 seasons within 1 game and 4 of the 31 Seasons within 2 games.

Until he starts to fall out of franchise norms, I'm just going to be happy that I get to watch some football. (And compile stats)

I do agree though, if he could find a way to let go of the offense and just focus on the defense this team would be leaps and bounds better. They have the talent, they just lack the creativity on offense.

 

[NJlargent]

While I don’t know want to disrupt Fade’s post about the PC woes he did fail to also point out the in game decisions and clock management. But it’s not necessary as he crushed the point.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

When a team is losing, it’s easy to point at the coach. Last year it was Bevell, this year it is Pete. How have these new coaches worked out:

Shannahan in SF
Wilkes in Arizona
Vance Joseph in Denver
Sean McDermott in Buffalo
Matt Patricia in Detroit
Jon Gruden in Oakland
Pat Shurmer in NY
Frank Reich in Indi

My point is, changing the coach doesn’t guarantee squat. Bad teams fire their coach and still suck with the new coach. We are 2-2, do you guys actually think some other coach would have us at 3-1? For every Sean McVay hire there are 3 failed or lateral coaching hires. Pete isn’t getting fired, at least not anytime soon.

Which one of those coaches was an exciting hire except for Shanahan, the only guy who has his team competitive with a really bad QB situation? In the eight games with a legitimate starting QB, Shanahan was 6-2. He's a good coach.

Jon Gruden was a perplexing hire from the point of trying to win football games. The guy's been out of the league for ages and had a big hand in trading Mack and seems to have instigated a schism in the personnel department.

Frank Reich and Pat Shurmur came into terrible teams with very little talent and have just started.

Vance Joseph was the defensive coordinator for a pretty bad Miami defense and somehow got hired as a HC? Steve Wilkes is similar. Was he DC of the Panthers for more than a year? Matt Patricia was also DC for a pretty meh defense.

I don't want Pete gone because I like him a lot and he is a defensive wizard, but we need a change in offense and we need it ASAP. I posted in another thread, but RW's per game stats so far this year are alarmingly close to Tarvaris Jackson's in 2011. How is that acceptable in any way? We have a great QB in his prime and you wouldn't know it if you watched the Hawks this year. That's very frustrating.

I agree Shanny is a good coach, he's just had terrible luck there in SF. Which shows most of coaching has to do with the team you takeover. Do you really think Dan Quinn would have all this success if he took a job in Buffalo or Cleveland? How many coaches are fortunate enough to take over a team with a franchise QB.

Reich and Shurmer are both offensive minds. I think most anyone here in Seattle would have been excited to see them take over as OC or even possibly head coach. I think both those teams have as much if not more talent on offense than us. Sure we have RW and Doug Baldwin, but after that we have zero big names on offense. The Giants have Saquon Barkley, Odell Beckham Jr, Evan Engram, and Sterling Shepard. The Colts are probably on par with us having Luck and TY Hilton and a bunch of nobodies.

I agree that going with an offensive minded coach is the way to go, but even then it isn't a guarantee. You are only as strong as your roster is.

 

[ExBassGuide]

For everyone that said "PAY THE MAN" about Earl, Pete just showed you he knows more than you! Look now why we should not hold on to some players toooo long! That would have cost the Seahawks a TON of $$$$ for someone that is most likely will not play again! And if you say Pete should have traded Earl, What do you think the Seahawks have been trying to do for the last year!
Teams were in talks about a Earl trade! (80% Earl will never play another snap in the NFL).