Corner Backs - Personnel Questions

[jammerhawk]

This is an area of the team where the present roster has a good bit of depth.

Here it is:

LCB- 26- Shaquill Griffin, 28- Justin Coleman (U), 39- Kalan Reed (R), 1- Jeremy Boykins (F),

RCB- 37- Tre Flowers, 23- Nieko Thorpe (U), 36- Akeem King (R), 34- Simeon Thomas (F),

As can be sen there are 2 UFAs, Coleman and Thorpe, and 2 RFAs, Reed and King. For me I'd want to keep Coleman as a priority re-signing. After that I'm not sure if Thorpe is worth keeping at anything close to the cap number he had this last season. If things proceed as usual i could see the team not tendering either King or Reed and offering a backup level deal to King who played adequately at times in relief.

There are a few here who want 'Quill Griffin to be canned but they fail to acknowledge he was playing hurt for the last few games and was on the injury report at times during the season. Perhaps he had a down season from his rookie year but still played adequately well for player who switched sides to replace an All Pro. Griffin isn't Sherman not many are, but he still is a solid CB and a quality 3rd rd. pick. To me the team has a developing genuine talent in Tre Flowers.

As ever the team will likely add to the pile with a prototypical type in the draft or with their UDFA signings. Keeping Coleman yo me is important. Pete is good at finding these guys and developing them.

 

[sutz]

Def think we should stay with Shaq/Tre going into camp. Agree with try to keep Coleman, ambivalent about Nieko.

Yeah, tender the young guys. Pete always drafts DBs every year, so there will be fresh blood. Don't see a lot of effort put into FA for this position group.

 

[nwHawk]

I trust Pete to make this call, but as long as Griffen "heals" and comes back with vinegar in his vains then yes. But Griffin had question marks after his 2 interception game. I'm probably mixing the two, but wasn't that about the same time is brother got demoted? Not trying to start something, but I am curious.

 

[sutz]

I trust Pete to make this call, but as long as Griffen "heals" and comes back with vinegar in his vains then yes. But Griffin had question marks after his 2 interception game. I'm probably mixing the two, but wasn't that about the same time is brother got demoted? Not trying to start something, but I am curious.

I'd call that a reach. It's not like 'Queem got cut or something. He's a rook on a fairly strong LB group. He has a year or so to prove himself. Let's see how he does in OTAs and TC.

Perhaps Griff just had a sophomore slump.

 

[chris98251]

I trust Pete to make this call, but as long as Griffen "heals" and comes back with vinegar in his vains then yes. But Griffin had question marks after his 2 interception game. I'm probably mixing the two, but wasn't that about the same time is brother got demoted? Not trying to start something, but I am curious.

I'd call that a reach. It's not like 'Queem got cut or something. He's a rook on a fairly strong LB group. He has a year or so to prove himself. Let's see how he does in OTAs and TC.

Perhaps Griff just had a sophomore slump.

Or the adjustment to LCB as well as a target with that side LB's being hurt made him more vulnerable to passing and supporting the run more.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Our two biggest draft needs are DE and safety, but IMO 3rd is DB's.

So while I'd be comfortable with Griffin and Flowers starting again next year, I want to see DB's drafted to try and find an elite #1 CB, which we desperately need.

Dependable and competent aren't good enough in the NFL anymore at the DB position, you need a game changer, someone that can take the ball away and cut the field in half.........especially on this defense.

 

[chris98251]

Our two biggest draft needs are DE and safety, but IMO 3rd is DB's.

So while I'd be comfortable with Griffin and Flowers starting again next year, I want to see DB's drafted to try and find an elite #1 CB, which we desperately need.

Dependable and competent aren't good enough in the NFL anymore at the DB position, you need a game changer, someone that can take the ball away and cut the field in half.........especially on this defense.

Oh like a converted WR drafted in the 5th round that had a somewhat flamboyant personality?

 

[nwHawk]

Totally understand what you guys are saying, but what about the effort to tackle in open space after a catch? Man, sometimes he just jogged and let others make the tackle, like either he was injured or disinterested. Saw him do that last year too a few times.

His bro definitely saw his playing cut after botching some big plays early in the season. That seemed to leed to Calitro getting the bulk of snaps while he went strickly to Special Teams. Would love to see snap count comparison.

 

[nwHawk]

Our two biggest draft needs are DE and safety, but IMO 3rd is DB's.

So while I'd be comfortable with Griffin and Flowers starting again next year, I want to see DB's drafted to try and find an elite #1 CB, which we desperately need.

Dependable and competent aren't good enough in the NFL anymore at the DB position, you need a game changer, someone that can take the ball away and cut the field in half.........especially on this defense.

Oh like a converted WR drafted in the 5th round that had a somewhat flamboyant personality?

Damn funny, good call.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Totally understand what you guys are saying, but what about the effort to tackle in open space after a catch? Man, sometimes he just jogged and let others make the tackle, like either he was injured or disinterested. Saw him do that last year too a few times.

His bro definitely saw his playing cut after botching some big plays early in the season. That seemed to leed to Calitro getting the bulk of snaps while he went strickly to Special Teams. Would love to see snap count comparison.

Griffin was quite a bit more aggressive, both out in coverage and tackling last year. So I do think he not only had some injuries going on this year, but I also think his confidence was wavering a little, which both could have contributed to the version of him we saw.

Let's be honest, Griffin had big shows to fill, moving over to the #1 CB spot for Richard.......maybe he's not cut out to be a #1. Too soon to give up on him for sure, but like I said I wanna see more CB's drafted either way.

 

[jammerhawk]

I listenened to JS on Sirius NFL radio today and he spoke highly of both Griffin and Flowers and reminded everyone Griffin was playing hurt for the last few games of the year but that the staff thought he was an exceptional player and was clearly part of the tem’s calculus gong into next season. I think the negative convo around Griffin is kneejerk stuff and he’s a special player with genuine abilities.

 

[JGfromtheNW]

Agree that re-signing Coleman should be top priority for the CB group. Beyond that, re-sign King and look towards the draft, UDFAs and FAs to fill the backend again. IMO we already have a solid top 4 in Griffin, Flowers, Coleman and King.

 

[massari]

Potentially bad news regarding the re-signing of Justin Coleman

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1098660167997186048[/tweet]

 

[jammerhawk]

That is pretty expensive. Maybe the Ravens see their guy playing a starting L or R position and not being a pure NCB.

 

[Tical21]

I'd love to bring in a starter-quality corner to compete with Shaquill in the event that he doesn't improve. I think he was personally my biggest disappointment last year, outside of Russell.

 

[sutz]

That is pretty expensive. Maybe the Ravens see their guy playing a starting L or R position and not being a pre NCB.

Or, given the pass-happy nature of much of the league, they consider him a 3rd starting CB. Plus, the new breed of OCs are getting good at isolating CBs with pre-snap motion where they exploit the differing levels of competence in some OCB vs the slot CBs. That might be a trend.

 

[jammerhawk]

Excellent observation!

 

[chris98251]

That is pretty expensive. Maybe the Ravens see their guy playing a starting L or R position and not being a pre NCB.

Or, given the pass-happy nature of much of the league, they consider him a 3rd starting CB. Plus, the new breed of OCs are getting good at isolating CBs with pre-snap motion where they exploit the differing levels of competence in some OCB vs the slot CBs. That might be a trend.

The counter is blitz packages risk versus reward sure but if you create a turnover or waste a down then the defense is one up, the other is drop a fast linebacker under, that opens up running lanes so timing and downs would be important there. Every team can't have a shut down CB on both sides and the slot in this day and age so schemeing is the other option.

 

[hawkfan68]

I agree that CB is the deepest position on the team.

I think Tre Flowers is a better player than Griffin and has a bigger upside than Griffin. Maybe a switch between the two might be good. Let Griffin go back to the right corner spot he played well in his rookie year and Tre Flowers can take the LCB spot.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I'd say the group is a persistent position of need.

All teams have to go cheap at one position group. From a pure roster efficiency standpoint, a team derives the greatest value in keeping the position group they develop the best, as cheap as possible.

Seattle has a significant competitive advantage in their ability to develop day three CBs into valuable starters. They should be drafting two DBs this year (one to replace Coleman and one to groom for possible Griffin replacement in 2020). Mainly because of the dearth of S prospects this class, the team may be forced to select a S next season. Perhaps higher than they'd prefer.

The main thing is, this class is generally under hyped. But for Seattle, it's also fairly decent in our particular brand/prototype of prospects. There are quite a few day 3 tall, lengthy CB prospects to be had. It's definitely a class that has a good vibe for development options.

Seattle has shown a repeatable ability to turn day 3 DBs into starter quality within a year of being drafted. If you continue to rely on that, it allows the team to spend bigger on OL, a position group that this team (and most teams) have had severe difficulties in developing.

It would be wise for Seattle to consider getting two this year. The available options this year warrant that.