Colin kaepernick gets contract extension

[Sourdough #49]

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney tunes style" entertainment value.

Feeling a bit defensive?

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

This. Just look at the Bennett, Sherman, Thomas, and even Baldwin contracts if you need anymore confirmation. The Seahawks pay well but with cap friendly contracts to the players they deem as core.

 

[Sports Hernia]

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney tunes style" entertainment value.

Feeling a bit defensive?

Nope, I'm just an expert in my field......... Nina Troll hunter! 8)

 

[loafoftatupu]

]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

 

[Sports Hernia]

]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

I see, I'll be monitoring this situation closely! :3-1: :0190l: :49ersmall:

 

[Marvin49]

I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.

The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.

The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.

One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.

Wait a minute...

Hypocrisy?

How could it be hypocrisy if the situation you presented isn't even a potential occurrence?

You are presenting a hypothetical situation Marvin, unless Wilson actually gets a similarly worded contract there just isn't anything to be hypocritical about Bro.

No one can visualize it.

And since when does a Niner fan avoid hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is claiming expectations of being "above reproach" then allowing a beer bottle smashing teammate to play and a convicted felon to practice. Now THAT is hypocrisy.

Its hypocrisy if he would have a completely different opinion if the players were switched. I am not calling him a hypocrite BTW because he never answered the question.

That doesn't mean that the QUESTION wasn't about hypocrisy.

Hypothetical situations are discussed all the time in forums...it just seems that when its a 49er fan saying something that peeps don't like this is the reaction I get.

Why is it so out of bounds to ask if someone would have a different reaction if it were a Seattle player as opposed to an SF player? The question really isn't about the organizations or anything like that...its about asking yourself if you would have the same reaction if you liked the player as opposed to not liking the player. If a guy signs a team friendly deal, is it because he's stupid, his agent screwed up, and the team is evil, or is it because the player wanted to help the team remain in contention.

Forget this specific contract. Just look at that above scenario....if both players simply took 5 mil below market value to help the team, how would you characterize the deals. My guess is you (not you specifically...I mean in general) would have differing opinions based on your opinions of the player and the team involved. It's human nature. 49er fans would likely do the exact same thing.

That all I was saying to begin with before it as always blew up into something altogether different. My initial comment was only that IMO the posters response and opinion would be different if it weren't Kap and the 49ers. Far less venom, far less assumptions of the agent screwing up, etc.

You disagree? No worries. You're entitled. I still believe what I said tho even if many of you disagree.

 

[Marvin49]

]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

Guilty.

 

[Marvin49]

I feel sorry for Kap.

LOL at the concern trolling.

Your argument is basically that:

A) You are an outlier in that unlike most others you weren't expecting him to sign for a deal that, depending on his play, is lower than recently signed second-tier quarterbacks (e.g. Cutler, Flacco, Stafford, etc.; basically if he plays like these guys he'll get paid less than them).

No it is interesting to me to see a considered top 10 quarterback take a very strange very high risk contract that has him paying insurance for the 49ers.

B) You don't understand how taking a MUCH lower guaranteed signing bonus than expected frees up room for more re-signings from today through the next league year.

But it doesn't. why don't you see that? He could have taken less base salary more signing bonus/guaranteed money and still came out the same numbers There really is nothing in the contract that helps the team with singing other players. His contract is a 3 year tryout, that he takes all the risk. That is the part that I can't understand from an outside view. Kapernick is taking all the risk. The 49ers are taking none. That's just bad advice negotiating on the agents part.

C) You don't understand how including de-escalators if they don't go to the SB or he isn't an All-Pro frees up money to bring in more firepower.

Having escalators is common contract language, what is significant is the De-esculators and what they are. so again this is nothing grand, it is telling of the FO.

The first is an opinion, and the later two are just strange claims to make.

Also, it's worth saying that you rejecting an explanation is not the same thing as one not being offered, which is what happened above.
You are correct but not answering the question is not the same, see point b again.

What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for.

I think you're probably going to have decide if it is unique or not to include de-escalators if he's not a top 4 QB in the league. You acknowledge that it is, and then later conclude that it isn't in order to maintain your stance that there's nothing unique about the contract and the flexibility it gives the team. It is simple: If Kap isn't an all-pro or the 9ers don't reach the Super Bowl thenn his contract automatically decreases which frees up more cap room to bring in more firepower. It's an atypical thing to put in a contract (which you acknowledge before you deny), and it inarguably helps the team pay more for more players in the event that they need them. Not to be a jerk, but I really don't understand what's complicated about this.

Likewise, regarding the abonormally low signing bonus, you are at the same time arguing that it places risk on the player but does not give the team more flexibility. I'm sure you can see the incongruity here. Taking a lower signing bonus gives the team more flexibility because the money is not guaranteed. A signing bonus is a signing bonus is a signing bonus. Salary can be adjusted and moved around from year to year to sign and resign players as need be (a la what the Patriots do with Tom Brady), a signing bonus cannot. This too is not that complicated.

If you insist on arguing that the 9ers are jerks or Kaepernick is an idiot for the contract they mutually agreed on that's fine, but arguing in addition that it does not give the team more flexibility in re-signing or bringing in other players simply betrays basic logic.

I think the problem he's having in seeing how the contract will help them sign players is that he's ONLY looking at those aspects of the contact that protect the 49ers from risk.

IE...

1) Low Signing bonus making low dead money if he's released
2) Rolling guarantees
3) De-escalators
4) Per game roster bonuses

Yup...those are mostly about covering the 49ers. No question. Novorro Bowman, Anthony Davis, and Ahmad Brooks have very similar things in their contracts. Brooks contract de-escalated last year and Bowman will miss out on some of his per game bonuses this year. The Niners are able to get players to sign to these terms by signing them 1 or sometimes even 2 full years early...IE the sacrifice the money for structure. They've been doing it for awhile. They could have paid Bowman less on his rookie deal and the same with Davis...but they resigned very early and got the structure they wanted. That's how they operate.

Most often, if a guy reaches Free Agency, thatr guy is gone because they couldn't or didn't want to resign him a few years earlier. That's what we are seeing right now with Crab and Iupati. My guess is they take a stab at resigning Crab and probably fail because he'll want too much and Iupati will walk as well. That's why the got Stevie Johnson and why the draft two interior linemen fairly high this year.

The aspects of this contract though that make it easier to sign players are...

1) Again, that low signing bonus that creates a low first year commitment and allows then to take that stab at resigning Crab.
2) Over the life of the deal this will become a well below market value contract. Fans here choose to see this and say he'll feel duped and hold out...however those relatively low salary numbers in a few years will allow them to keep guys because he'll never have a 31 mil cap hit ALA Joe Flacco. It'll cap out at 23 and that's only if he hits those performance standards. Choosing to believe he'll feel duped makes it impossible to see that this very fact makes it possible to keep guys.


If you look at only the guarantees, roster bonuses, and de-escalators, then of course it looks like the contract only helps the team against risk. Those aren't tho the only aspects of the contract that people are commenting on. Bottom line, its a below market deal long term and allows the team to sign a guy or 2 here in the short term.

 

[loafoftatupu]

]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

Guilty.

Ya think?

Like you, my wife is prone to sharing her feelings with descriptive dialog too. I tolerate it because she has specific talents that I appreciate to go with that amazing body blessed with melons by the gods.

I am just guessing you don't bring that to the table. So go hug it out on the DenialZone Bro. We will wait for you. I promise.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

Guilty.

Ya think?

Like you, my wife is prone to sharing her feelings with descriptive dialog too. I tolerate it because she has specific talents that I appreciate to go with that amazing body blessed with melons by the gods.

I am just guessing you don't bring that to the table. So go hug it out on the DenialZone Bro. We will wait for you. I promise.

Zing!!!

 

[Marvin49]

]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

Guilty.

Ya think?

Like you, my wife is prone to sharing her feelings with descriptive dialog too. I tolerate it because she has specific talents that I appreciate to go with that amazing body blessed with melons by the gods.

I am just guessing you don't bring that to the table. So go hug it out on the DenialZone Bro. We will wait for you. I promise.

Then DON'T "tolerate" me. I'm not forcing you to read or respond to my posts. I made a comment that's far from out of bounds and have spent several pages defending a fairly benign statement.

Gratz on your wife's melons BTW. :-D

 

[loafoftatupu]

I don't see a cleavage shot yet. pay up Charlene.

 

[loafoftatupu]

Then DON'T "tolerate" me. I'm not forcing you to read or respond to my posts. I made a comment that's far from out of bounds and have spent several pages defending a fairly benign statement.

Gratz on your wife's melons BTW. :-D

Oh.. I don't read your posts.... maybe brief pieces as I scroll by.

 

[IndyHawk]

Then DON'T "tolerate" me. I'm not forcing you to read or respond to my posts. I made a comment that's far from out of bounds and have spent several pages defending a fairly benign statement.

Gratz on your wife's melons BTW. :-D

Oh.. I don't read your posts.... maybe brief pieces as I scroll by.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but Marvin never really pisses me off and as far I have seen he goes beyond all the 49er fans to compliment our team when we win..Yeah I know he's on our board and is from the "dark side" but I notice the guy has over 2,200 posts and I can't even fathom how long it will take before I get that ..So he can't be that bad and hasn't been banned from what I know(which isn't much) :lol: JZ on other hand is another story...

 

[loafoftatupu]

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but Marvin never really pisses me off and as far I have seen he goes beyond all the 49er fans to compliment our team when we win..Yeah I know he's on our board and is from the "dark side" but I notice the guy has over 2,200 posts and I can't even fathom how long it will take before I get that ..So he can't be that bad and hasn't been banned from what I know(which isn't much) :lol: JZ on other hand is another story...

Who said anything about being pissed off at Marvin?

Marvin doesn't piss anybody off, he just has the need to argue details of a minutiae Niner post. Even if he isn't arguing he wants all to know what his sensitivity has to say. Comment about a Niner situation and Marvin lays down his imaginary approval/disproval as if it actually matters.

Rather than bringing content, the same recycled stuff and watered down reflection fill his posts. I don't read them because they sound like Charlie Browns teacher.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Also, Marvin has an approved reading list that he posts every time someone tries to quote a Bay Area reporter in one of their posts. It's like Fahrenheit 451 or 1984 is Marvin's favorite novel. I'm sure if he could, he'd put on a fireman's suit and burst into Tim Kawakami's office or Lowell Cohn's study, burning every scrap of paper in those places with a flamethrower and confiscating their computers while yelling YOU AREN'T WRITING ABOUT THE 49ERS THE RIGHT WAY AND IT'S GIVING SOME SEAHAWKS FANS ON THE INTERNET THE WRONG IDEA ABOUT OUR TEAM. WAR IS PEACE. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

No one hates him or anything, but anytime someone even says the word "For--" he's on the thread explaining to us how things REALLY ARE in San Francisco. All the time.

 

[loafoftatupu]

Also, Marvin has an approved reading list that he posts every time someone tries to quote a Bay Area reporter in one of their posts. It's like Fahrenheit 451 or 1984 is Marvin's favorite novel. I'm sure if he could, he'd put on a fireman's suit and burst into Tim Kawakami's office or Lowell Cohn's study, burning every scrap of paper in those places with a flamethrower and confiscating their computers while yelling YOU AREN'T WRITING ABOUT THE 49ERS THE RIGHT WAY AND IT'S GIVING SOME SEAHAWKS FANS ON THE INTERNET THE WRONG IDEA ABOUT OUR TEAM. WAR IS PEACE. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

No one hates him or anything, but anytime someone even says the word "For--" he's on the thread explaining to us how things REALLY ARE in San Francisco. All the time.

That is perfect Smelly.

And Marvin, your cool. We could never question the devotion you display (well here we could)

 

[Sports Hernia]

I made a comment that's far from out of bounds and have spent several pages DEFENDING a fairly benign statement.

There in lies the problem. See the word in caps. Defend, spin, and dodge, then repeat.



Sigh!

 

[Sports Hernia]

Also, Marvin has an approved reading list that he posts every time someone tries to quote a Bay Area reporter in one of their posts. It's like Fahrenheit 451 or 1984 is Marvin's favorite novel. I'm sure if he could, he'd put on a fireman's suit and burst into Tim Kawakami's office or Lowell Cohn's study, burning every scrap of paper in those places with a flamethrower and confiscating their computers while yelling YOU AREN'T WRITING ABOUT THE 49ERS THE RIGHT WAY AND IT'S GIVING SOME SEAHAWKS FANS ON THE INTERNET THE WRONG IDEA ABOUT OUR TEAM. WAR IS PEACE. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

No one hates him or anything, but anytime someone even says the word "For--" he's on the thread explaining to us how things REALLY ARE in San Francisco. All the time.

Excellent post! :th2thumbs: I think Marvin ate too much paste as a kid. 8)

Whether he wants to admit it or not he IS trolling, but is clever enough to walk right up to the line of no return and stop.

Let's face it, if I pulled his act over on the denial zone with Seattle related content, I'd be banned quickly.
I don't have the time, energy, or will power to troll another teams forum, and don't get the attraction of it.

 

[Sourdough #49]

Also, Marvin has an approved reading list that he posts every time someone tries to quote a Bay Area reporter in one of their posts. It's like Fahrenheit 451 or 1984 is Marvin's favorite novel. I'm sure if he could, he'd put on a fireman's suit and burst into Tim Kawakami's office or Lowell Cohn's study, burning every scrap of paper in those places with a flamethrower and confiscating their computers while yelling YOU AREN'T WRITING ABOUT THE 49ERS THE RIGHT WAY AND IT'S GIVING SOME SEAHAWKS FANS ON THE INTERNET THE WRONG IDEA ABOUT OUR TEAM. WAR IS PEACE. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

No one hates him or anything, but anytime someone even says the word "For--" he's on the thread explaining to us how things REALLY ARE in San Francisco. All the time.

Excellent post! :th2thumbs: I think Marvin ate too much paste as a kid. 8)

Whether he wants to admit it or not he IS trolling, but is clever enough to walk right up to the line of no return and stop.

Let's face it, if I pulled his act over on the denial zone with Seattle related content, I'd be banned quickly.
I don't have the time, energy, or will power to troll another teams forum, and don't get the attraction of it.

The attraction for me is I like to talk/read about NFC West division football. I live in Connecticut so all anyone talks about here is the Patriots or Giants. I like outside perspectives about players and situations. I don't come here to troll and I don't think Marvin does either. I come to engage in meaningful what ifs and could haves with a sprinkle of proclamations of expectations.