"Clayton claims he's "baffled" by Wilson contract talks"

[netskier]

Where is the risk with a sufficiently large insurance policy covering disabling injuries? He already took out a policy for something? Anyone know the specifics?

 

[Tical21]

Thank God TC is starting in a month or so. This Wilson contract drama is way beyond boring. He'll sign with us, it will be for ridiculous money, it will seem to be team unfriendly, Tical21 will hate it and join Anthony in trolling anything about Wilson.

We'll win several Superbowls. Fair trade to me.

Just can't help but keep my name comin out your mouth. If we sign Wilson then start to decline I won't have to write a single word. You got me confused with the amateurs.

 

[Anthony!]

Of course it does because believing anything else would prove you wrong, again your assuming. They are in contract negotiations on an ext, they want a 5 year deal you put 2 and 2 together. Seems really simple, unless of course you assume and want it to mean something else. As to talking to a brick wall, of course it does because you need it to so you can be right, problem is nothing you have said makes you right it just makes you someone who loves to assume.

There is what we know, which is almost nothing, and what we can safely infer would benefit each party. Unfortunately, none of your inference make much sense.

(1) You claimed that Lynch's extension opened the door to Wilson getting new money this year in addition to his signing bonus. This is factually incorrct, as Lynch's extension contains no new money this year outside of the usual signing bonus and his extension is cap neutral this year, yet you cannot admit you are wrong.

(2) You claimed that longer deals benefit the players by giving them more security against injuries, even though I proved that longer deals contain little to no guaranteed money in their final years.

(3) You believe Wilson's agent wants a longer deal and does not want new money added on this year outside of the usual signing bonus, which would contradict his own statements disagreeing with the traditional new money distinction, arguing that long contracts for QBs are essentially meaningless, and desiring for his clients to hit free agency.

(4) You don't think extensions for QBs in the final year of their rookie deals typically include low cap hits in those final years that are offset by large signing bonuses, which is also flat out wrong.

And now (5) you think Wilson's willingness to play out this season without an extension means his current offer is prospective when those things bear no relation to one another. The terms of a current offer, before Wilson has played out the season, are not the same as a future offer's terms after Wilson has played out the season.

Dude A simple you are right would work because nothing you said changes anything at all

 

[Anthony!]

I love how EVERYONE with an opinion is pointed out as "assuming" by Anthony, but Anthony argues like hell on his very own ASSUMPTIONS. Anthony, these are all assumptions...even by you. Let us assume WTF we want and we'll see whose assumptions were better when Russell signs his contract next week.

I'm still betting on Russell signing before training camp. I don't care if it is a four, five or more year deal, I just care enough to want to say "I told you so" to Anthony.

By the way, Russell has ZERO leverage right now.

You know if you bothered to read all my post you would know I already acknowledged no one rally knows, the disagreements now are around weather Wilson has leverage which he does, and weather Wilson is asking for 5 year ext or 5 years with the current year redone which none of the things posted confirms. FYI you will never be able to say I told you so unless you have all known facts which you and I and everyone not in the FO, or Wilsons camp will know so you can give that a break to. FYI I will never be able to say I told you so either.

 

[Anthony!]

I love how EVERYONE with an opinion is pointed out as "assuming" by Anthony, but Anthony argues like hell on his very own ASSUMPTIONS. Anthony, these are all assumptions...even by you. Let us assume WTF we want and we'll see whose assumptions were better when Russell signs his contract next week.

I'm still betting on Russell signing before training camp. I don't care if it is a four, five or more year deal, I just care enough to want to say "I told you so" to Anthony.

By the way, Russell has ZERO leverage right now.

Some are ill-conceived assumptions, while others are blatant misstatements of fact, I.e. the terms of Lynch's extension, Rodgers' extension, Newton's, etc.

I wouldn't say Wilson has no leverage. If he wanted to screw over whomever his future team will be, he would have that opportunity under the non-exclusive tag. Franchise QBs don't typically do this because they want their teams to have the cap flexibility to remain competitive.

If you think that is the only leverage he has you are kidding you self he has plenty, some just refuse to see it. There is a difference between having leverage and using it though I will say that. Some of the thing she could do that gives him leverage I am not sure he would do. FYI dude you can spin it how you want Lynch threated to retire and the Seahawks gave him a new contract tearing up the 1 year he still had left the terms are irrelevant they did what they said they would not do, and he ended up getting more.

 

[Anthony!]

I really don't know if Wilson is serious about playing out his contract but it wouldn't surprise me given his personality and his agent . An agent with zero experience in NFL contracts. So if he doesn't sign before the first preseason game he's not going to . To me that's the cutoff, he will have to make a choice of risking injury or signing we will see. Even just playing in training camp is rolling the dice hard to believe he would take that risk .

Hard to believe the Hawks would let him, given an injury would also end our season and the next few until they find another franchise QB.

 

[Anthony!]

Now please list the players you would like to see released to make room for Wilson's $27 million a year in new money.

Why should I? It's not my opinion that we should retain Wilson at that price. I'm merely pointing out that's the only realistic way we keep him, in my opinion, if his agent wants to see him hit the open market.

There is nothing Denver can hypothetically offer Wilson that we would not match, which is our right under the non-exclusive tag.

First, Denver is just one of the teams that would be in the hunt for him, and second they can offer him a passing-friendly offense in a passing-friendly environment where he'll be encouraged to break all the records he wants. Denver will just happened to have cleared off $20 million in QB expenditure with no cap impact through Manning's retirement, so they would be in a good place to offer Wilson a contract that Seattle shouldn't match, and Elway, for reasons previously mentioned, is a good candidate to do just that.

But like I said, that's just one of the teams. Who else is looking for a QB out there? Most of the league. Chances are someone would want to pony up more than we would be willing to pay, and wouldn't care about giving up 2 first-rounders because in reality they would spend more on draft busts before getting a good one.

Given that, I should be desperate for us to keep Wilson, but I'm not. Offense wins games, but defense wins championships, and we have the best D in the league.

Interesting offense wins games, defense win championships, hmm you need to win games to get to the playoffs to win championships. You need to score to win games and championships. Even with the best D in the league according ot what it says below with an Avg QB we miss the playoffs

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/bl ... /04/page/3

I do not disagree with you about Defense I just also know how important offense is too, and given we only have 3 top ties talents on offense and 1 is in his last year of his current deal, the other threatens to retire every year. Not so sure we can afford to the loose the one in his last year of his current contract.

 

[LymonHawk]

Why do so many here assume RW wants to play in a pass-first offense?

Has he ever come out and said that?

 

[hawknation2015]

Why do so many here assume RW wants to play in a pass-first offense?

Has he ever come out and said that?

No. In fact, I think he has implied the opposite:

"I obviously want to play in Seattle forever."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... ks-forever

"I want to feed the Beast. I want to hand him the football and that’s what makes him the best running back in the National Football League.”
http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Wilson-ou ... e-35189317

Anthony, as usual, has made a faulty assumption.

 

[LymonHawk]

Actually, it was Kiwi's post that caught my eye. (Gotta give credit when due.)

 

[Anthony!]

Why do so many here assume RW wants to play in a pass-first offense?

Has he ever come out and said that?

No. In fact, I think he has implied the opposite:

"I obviously want to play in Seattle forever."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... ks-forever

"I want to feed the Beast. I want to hand him the football and that’s what makes him the best running back in the National Football League.”
http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Wilson-ou ... e-35189317

Anthony, as usual, has made a faulty assumption.

You as usual are wrong.

 

[hawknation2015]

Your observation could be the crux of the whole problem with resigning Wilson. Maybe he wants to go to a team that values offense as much as defense.

:34853_doh:

 

[Popeyejones]

Same response to a bunch of replies to the below quoted post, so answering all at once to keep the thread moving and not repeat myself.

THIS POST:

Normally, QBs are partially concerned about fostering a sense of team stability and leaving their team on a solid cap footing so that the team can surround them with the key players to compete at a high level. Wilson has expressed ZERO interest in that, at least so far.

Is that actually true? There's only two QBs I can think of who actually put their money where their mouth was on this (Brady and Kaepernick), Instead, I think MOST QB's are really no different from Wilson on this point. Put another way, Brady and Kaepernick are the outliers, IMO. I think you're being a little too rough on Wilson on this point.

THESE REPLIES (snipped, for the reasons stated below)

Kaepernick's contract...

How can Keeporpick's deal...

Of course, with the way Kaepernick has continued to perform in the critical moments of games, his contract no longer looks as team friendly as it once did. You can't be "friendly" to your team when you are constantly giving away games as the worst 4th Quarter QB in the league.

RESPONSE:

My point wasn't to debate one of two examples or the merits of play of an example after having negotiated a contract (that wouldn't belong in this forum), my point was to say that I disagree with Hawknation saying that Wilson is an outlier in not being team-first in his contract negotiations.

If you disagree with one of my two examples, that means there's only ONE example rather than two of someone actually doing what Hawknation said QBs "normally" do.

As for details of Kaepernick's deal, I disagree, but that's a topic for the NFL forum if anyone wants to take it up, as it doesn't belong here.

 

[Popeyejones]

Yes, one way QBs typically give their teams better cap flexibility is by accepting a lower base salary in the year they sign their deal in exchange for a massive signing bonus. This allows the team to ease into the large salary increase by initially prorating the signing bonus in the season before the new deal kicks in.

Wilson's baseball agent has said he disagrees with this NFL norm and that the standard "new money" designation should not matter. In fact, he referred to it as "annoying." Therefore, they want Wilson's average salary to include this season, which is not something previous franchise QBs (Rodgers, Newton, Ryan and yes Kaepernick) ever considered doing to their respective teams.

In that way, a $22 a year deal now becomes an absurd $27 million a year extension in new money.

Fully agreed that Wilson's agent isn't that impressed by the fake, funny money that will never be realized on the last two years of five and six year deals.

That said, I disagree with the general premise that QBs are deferring to the team with the way NFL contracts are usually structured (low money starting out, and fake money on the back end). Everyone doesn't do this because everyone is generous, everyone does this because it's how it is usually done. To be honest, I think the system is actually in some need of some rationalization, as even football fans know that NFL contracts are typically inflated and BS (i.e. when a deal is announced everyone knows they have to wait for the details to be announced before trying to parse out what it actually IS). Just as rookie contracts have been rationalized, I think 2nd and 3rd deals being rationalized is best for everyone in the long run (it would massively decreases transaction costs, for one).

 

[EntiatHawk]

Don't really know why I keep reading this post. I must be like a scab you cannot quit picking

I think we all know one thing, we don't know really much of anything when it comes to what is going on behind the scenes.

I also really do not buy into the "Baseball Agent" theory. I would bet that any good agent that has done sports contracts can adapt to any of the sports. They may be nuances with each profession but much of the principles are probably the same. If the agent is good I am sure they have many resources to get all the information needed to get what is typical within a certain market and work from there.

I just hope RW signs before camp so all of this will go away and then we can talk about how rediculas the money was

I think the CBA should put a cap in on how much any one player can make on a team, such as a 10% rule, that no one player can make more than 10% of the total team cap. That would help all teams become more competitive and also help teams to be able to keep their star players. Just a thought.

 

[Popeyejones]

I think the CBA should put a cap in on how much any one player can make on a team, such as a 10% rule, that no one player can make more than 10% of the total team cap. That would help all teams become more competitive and also help teams to be able to keep their star players. Just a thought.

I'm not opposed to the idea, but you're basically talking about the NFL having max contracts a la the NBA, and that has had the exact opposite effect, with star players moving around much more than they ever did in the past.

The other problem with this is that unlike the NBA where effect on the game is more equally distributed across the positions, in the NFL this would basically just be a separate QB salary cap with nobody else being affected. Because of the way the NFL game is played and how stardom is distributed, I seriously don't think it would be in their best interest to have the elite QBs all moving to bigger markets when their contracts come up, as it would really mess up the competitive balance of the league (which has proven to be a much larger priority in the NFL than all the other major team sports).

 

[AgentDib]

I think the CBA should put a cap in on how much any one player can make on a team, such as a 10% rule, that no one player can make more than 10% of the total team cap. That would help all teams become more competitive and also help teams to be able to keep their star players. Just a thought.

Getting rid of individual contract limits would improve the NBA by a huge amount. As it is, popular teams accrue huge benefits from having multiple superstars under max contracts while less popular teams are left in the cold. That's terrible for parity and terrible for fans as the power is in the hands of free agents to swap teams around and form their own dream teams.

 

[rideaducati]

I love how EVERYONE with an opinion is pointed out as "assuming" by Anthony, but Anthony argues like hell on his very own ASSUMPTIONS. Anthony, these are all assumptions...even by you. Let us assume WTF we want and we'll see whose assumptions were better when Russell signs his contract next week.

I'm still betting on Russell signing before training camp. I don't care if it is a four, five or more year deal, I just care enough to want to say "I told you so" to Anthony.

By the way, Russell has ZERO leverage right now.

Some are ill-conceived assumptions, while others are blatant misstatements of fact, I.e. the terms of Lynch's extension, Rodgers' extension, Newton's, etc.

I wouldn't say Wilson has no leverage. If he wanted to screw over whomever his future team will be, he would have that opportunity under the non-exclusive tag. Franchise QBs don't typically do this because they want their teams to have the cap flexibility to remain competitive.

If you think that is the only leverage he has you are kidding you self he has plenty, some just refuse to see it. There is a difference between having leverage and using it though I will say that. Some of the thing she could do that gives him leverage I am not sure he would do. FYI dude you can spin it how you want Lynch threated to retire and the Seahawks gave him a new contract tearing up the 1 year he still had left the terms are irrelevant they did what they said they would not do, and he ended up getting more.

You would have more leverage than Russell by threatening to leave .Net forever.

 

[Popeyejones]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Anthony!]

I love how EVERYONE with an opinion is pointed out as "assuming" by Anthony, but Anthony argues like hell on his very own ASSUMPTIONS. Anthony, these are all assumptions...even by you. Let us assume WTF we want and we'll see whose assumptions were better when Russell signs his contract next week.

I'm still betting on Russell signing before training camp. I don't care if it is a four, five or more year deal, I just care enough to want to say "I told you so" to Anthony.

By the way, Russell has ZERO leverage right now.

Some are ill-conceived assumptions, while others are blatant misstatements of fact, I.e. the terms of Lynch's extension, Rodgers' extension, Newton's, etc.

I wouldn't say Wilson has no leverage. If he wanted to screw over whomever his future team will be, he would have that opportunity under the non-exclusive tag. Franchise QBs don't typically do this because they want their teams to have the cap flexibility to remain competitive.

If you think that is the only leverage he has you are kidding you self he has plenty, some just refuse to see it. There is a difference between having leverage and using it though I will say that. Some of the thing she could do that gives him leverage I am not sure he would do. FYI dude you can spin it how you want Lynch threated to retire and the Seahawks gave him a new contract tearing up the 1 year he still had left the terms are irrelevant they did what they said they would not do, and he ended up getting more.

You would have more leverage than Russell by threatening to leave .Net forever.

ukeface: