"Clayton claims he's "baffled" by Wilson contract talks"

[hawknation2015]

No you just refuse to see the truth the "team" has only done 4 year deals. Wilson has said he wants to stay a Hawk, everyone has said Wilson is looking for 5+ years. Has it occurred to you that Wilson having to run so much, and their unwillingness to spend on the offensive line the FO does not want Wilson for more than 4 years as they are worried he will get hurt? Once again you can try as you might to ignore it, but their history says the Hawks like 4 year deals, the evidence supports Wilson wants longer. Add to that the Hawks like to do things differently and there you go. As to your conjecture of adding 4 years again you are assuming and have no evidence to support it. Like the media you are making stuff up.

A deal is an agreement among two parties. The Seahawks have shown a consistent willingness to benefit their star players by allowing them to reach free agency more quickly than is the norm. You are assuming this benefits the Seahawks, and not the players, but you have provided absolutely nothing to support that assertion. That is because there is nothing to support it; your mistaken belief is counterintuitive and nonsensical.

Longer deals do NOT protect a player in the event of injury because by the time you get to end of a contract, there is no guaranteed money left. This is what Wilson's agent is discussing above, i.e. why he does not believe in longer deals.

Let's look at Aaron Rodgers' five-year extension:


There is no money guaranteed in the final two years of the contract, and only a fraction of the 3rd year contains guaranteed money. Why is this team friendly? Because if Rodgers gets hurt next year, or the year after, or the year after that, the team has very little dead money to deal with.

In addition to allocating more risk to the player, longer deals extend the period of time before a player may reach free agency to re-up with more guaranteed money at a higher rate.

Newton and Ryan's deals are similar to Rodgers' with only a fraction of guaranteed money remaining in the final three years. Therefore, extending a deal for another year (or more, in the case of Kaepernick) does not protect the player and, in fact, makes the deal increasingly team friendly.

Given your previous behavior, I am sure you will just ignore all of the above, attempt to change the argument with a straw man, or make some equally vapid point. And then we will be right back to where we started, around and around we go.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Russell Okung seems to be the only player on our squad that has a 6 year contract.

 

[hawknation2015]

Russell Okung seems to be the only player on our squad that has a 6 year contract.

Okung signed his deal before the new CBA rookie salary scale. Jon Ryan is on the final year of his six-year deal. Brandon Mebane signed a five-year deal in 2011.

Since then, Schneider has worked diligently to fairly compensate our star players with deals that allow them to enter free agency before they turn 30 years old, thereby increasing the amount of money these players will have the potential to earn going into 3rd contracts.

That is why it is so baffling that we have not been able to get closer to a deal with Wilson's agent, who seems to want to stray from NFL standards relating to new and guaranteed money. This organization has a proven track record of doing everything they can under the salary cap to support our players in that regard. If he can't get a deal done with us, then good luck getting a deal done with other teams after he forces us to use the non-exclusive tag on Wilson.

 

[KiwiHawk]

But back to the point...

The only financial advantage available for Wilson is if his current-year contract is torn up. If it's not, then the Seahawks have nothing that any other team in the NFL couldn't give Wilson.

The Seahawks can franchise Wilson next year and even the year after, but eventually he can hit the open market if he (or his agent) wants to. When that happens, then all of the QB-starved teams will come a-courting and we hit Stupid Money territory.

The only card the Seahawks can play to stave off that eventuality is to tear up the current year and replace it with a shiny new contract, because that is the only action the Seahawk can take that other teams can't, and the only way the Seahawks can avoid Stupid Money while retaining Wilson.

It would probably take some artful dodging to get him under a new contract this year, but in reality that's the only way I see it playing out. Otherwise we start shopping for our new guy now, because regardless of how few teams run a system like ours that fits Wilson to a T, there are teams out there (hello Cleveland) that are absolutely desperate for anyone who can chuck a ball, get butts on seats, and give their sucky franchise a glimmer of hope.

There are even good teams with a QB coming to the end of his use-by date that would LOVE to get their hands on Wilson. Do you think John Elway looks at Wilson and doesn't see a version of himself? Let's say Peyton retires after this year. Hawks franchise Wilson. You think Denver wouldn't trade 2 first-rounders for a young John Elway to lead them to the Super Bowl? With John Elway making that call? Revenge on the team that beat them in the Super Bowl? A blow against a division rival in the day when Elway was playing? Might as well put a ribbon around it while we're at it.

 

[hawknation2015]

But back to the point...

The only financial advantage available for Wilson is if his current-year contract is torn up. If it's not, then the Seahawks have nothing that any other team in the NFL couldn't give Wilson.

The Seahawks can franchise Wilson next year and even the year after, but eventually he can hit the open market if he (or his agent) wants to. When that happens, then all of the QB-starved teams will come a-courting and we hit Stupid Money territory.

The only card the Seahawks can play to stave off that eventuality is to tear up the current year and replace it with a shiny new contract, because that is the only action the Seahawk can take that other teams can't, and the only way the Seahawks can avoid Stupid Money while retaining Wilson.

It would probably take some artful dodging to get him under a new contract this year, but in reality that's the only way I see it playing out. Otherwise we start shopping for our new guy now, because regardless of how few teams run a system like ours that fits Wilson to a T, there are teams out there (hello Cleveland) that are absolutely desperate for anyone who can chuck a ball, get butts on seats, and give their sucky franchise a glimmer of hope.

There are even good teams with a QB coming to the end of his use-by date that would LOVE to get their hands on Wilson. Do you think John Elway looks at Wilson and doesn't see a version of himself? Let's say Peyton retires after this year. Hawks franchise Wilson. You think Denver wouldn't trade 2 first-rounders for a young John Elway to lead them to the Super Bowl? With John Elway making that call? Revenge on the team that beat them in the Super Bowl? A blow against a division rival in the day when Elway was playing? Might as well put a ribbon around it while we're at it.

Now please list the players you would like to see released to make room for Wilson's $27 million a year in new money.

There is nothing Denver can hypothetically offer Wilson that we would not match, which is our right under the non-exclusive tag.

 

[Anthony!]

No you just refuse to see the truth the "team" has only done 4 year deals. Wilson has said he wants to stay a Hawk, everyone has said Wilson is looking for 5+ years. Has it occurred to you that Wilson having to run so much, and their unwillingness to spend on the offensive line the FO does not want Wilson for more than 4 years as they are worried he will get hurt? Once again you can try as you might to ignore it, but their history says the Hawks like 4 year deals, the evidence supports Wilson wants longer. Add to that the Hawks like to do things differently and there you go. As to your conjecture of adding 4 years again you are assuming and have no evidence to support it. Like the media you are making stuff up.

A deal is an agreement among two parties. The Seahawks have shown a consistent willingness to benefit their star players by allowing them to reach free agency more quickly than is the norm. You are assuming this benefits the Seahawks, and not the players, but you have provided absolutely nothing to support that assertion. That is because there is nothing to support it; your mistaken belief is counterintuitive and nonsensical.

Longer deals do NOT protect a player in the event of injury because by the time you get to end of a contract, there is no guaranteed money left. This is what Wilson's agent is discussing above, i.e. why he does not believe in longer deals.

Let's look at Aaron Rodgers' five-year extension:


There is no money guaranteed in the final two years of the contract, and only a fraction of the 3rd year contains guaranteed money. Why is this team friendly? Because if Rodgers gets hurt next year, or the year after, or the year after that, the team has very little dead money to deal with.

In addition to allocating more risk to the player, longer deals extend the period of time before a player may reach free agency to re-up with more guaranteed money at a higher rate.

Newton and Ryan's deals are similar to Rodgers' with only a fraction of guaranteed money remaining in the final three years. Therefore, extending a deal for another year (or more, in the case of Kaepernick) does not protect the player and, in fact, makes the deal increasingly team friendly.

Given your previous behavior, I am sure you will just ignore all of the above, attempt to change the argument with a straw man, or make some equally vapid point. And then we will be right back to where we started, around and around we go.

Dude yeah that is form your perspective and the players, however that does not mean it is not what the Hawks want as well. You have not proven that the hawks are not only doing 4 year deals because it is what they want. so just give It up. Given you inability to admit that pattern and the possibility that the issue is 4 year opposed to 5 you are really wasting your time and proving nothing as usual.

 

[Anthony!]

Russell Okung seems to be the only player on our squad that has a 6 year contract.

Okung signed his deal before the new CBA rookie salary scale. Jon Ryan is on the final year of his six-year deal. Brandon Mebane signed a five-year deal in 2011.

Since then, Schneider has worked diligently to fairly compensate our star players with deals that allow them to enter free agency before they turn 30 years old, thereby increasing the amount of money these players will have the potential to earn going into 3rd contracts.

That is why it is so baffling that we have not been able to get closer to a deal with Wilson's agent, who seems to want to stray from NFL standards relating to new and guaranteed money. This organization has a proven track record of doing everything they can under the salary cap to support our players in that regard. If he can't get a deal done with us, then good luck getting a deal done with other teams after he forces us to use the non-exclusive tag on Wilson.

You assuming that is why he is doing it, or maybe he only wants 4 years so he can reload with cheaper talent. So again stop you cannot prove any of this however we now know Wilson wants a 5 year deal and is willing to play this year at 1.5 so that means an ext.

 

[hawknation2015]

No you just refuse to see the truth the "team" has only done 4 year deals. Wilson has said he wants to stay a Hawk, everyone has said Wilson is looking for 5+ years. Has it occurred to you that Wilson having to run so much, and their unwillingness to spend on the offensive line the FO does not want Wilson for more than 4 years as they are worried he will get hurt? Once again you can try as you might to ignore it, but their history says the Hawks like 4 year deals, the evidence supports Wilson wants longer. Add to that the Hawks like to do things differently and there you go. As to your conjecture of adding 4 years again you are assuming and have no evidence to support it. Like the media you are making stuff up.

A deal is an agreement among two parties. The Seahawks have shown a consistent willingness to benefit their star players by allowing them to reach free agency more quickly than is the norm. You are assuming this benefits the Seahawks, and not the players, but you have provided absolutely nothing to support that assertion. That is because there is nothing to support it; your mistaken belief is counterintuitive and nonsensical.

Longer deals do NOT protect a player in the event of injury because by the time you get to end of a contract, there is no guaranteed money left. This is what Wilson's agent is discussing above, i.e. why he does not believe in longer deals.

Let's look at Aaron Rodgers' five-year extension:


There is no money guaranteed in the final two years of the contract, and only a fraction of the 3rd year contains guaranteed money. Why is this team friendly? Because if Rodgers gets hurt next year, or the year after, or the year after that, the team has very little dead money to deal with.

In addition to allocating more risk to the player, longer deals extend the period of time before a player may reach free agency to re-up with more guaranteed money at a higher rate.

Newton and Ryan's deals are similar to Rodgers' with only a fraction of guaranteed money remaining in the final three years. Therefore, extending a deal for another year (or more, in the case of Kaepernick) does not protect the player and, in fact, makes the deal increasingly team friendly.

Given your previous behavior, I am sure you will just ignore all of the above, attempt to change the argument with a straw man, or make some equally vapid point. And then we will be right back to where we started, around and around we go.

Dude yeah that is form your perspective and the players, however that does not mean it is not what the Hawks want as well. You have not proven that the hawks are not only doing 4 year deals because it is what they want. so just give It up. Given you inability to admit that pattern and the possibility that the issue is 4 year opposed to 5 you are really wasting your time and proving nothing as usual.

Bingo.

 

[hawknation2015]

Russell Okung seems to be the only player on our squad that has a 6 year contract.

Okung signed his deal before the new CBA rookie salary scale. Jon Ryan is on the final year of his six-year deal. Brandon Mebane signed a five-year deal in 2011.

Since then, Schneider has worked diligently to fairly compensate our star players with deals that allow them to enter free agency before they turn 30 years old, thereby increasing the amount of money these players will have the potential to earn going into 3rd contracts.

That is why it is so baffling that we have not been able to get closer to a deal with Wilson's agent, who seems to want to stray from NFL standards relating to new and guaranteed money. This organization has a proven track record of doing everything they can under the salary cap to support our players in that regard. If he can't get a deal done with us, then good luck getting a deal done with other teams after he forces us to use the non-exclusive tag on Wilson.

You assuming that is why he is doing it, or maybe he only wants 4 years so he can reload with cheaper talent. So again stop you cannot prove any of this however we now know Wilson wants a 5 year deal and is willing to play this year at 1.5 so that means an ext.

This is lacking a basic understanding of contract formation. Offers are only valid for a reasonable period of time. Hence, Wilson's current offer is only good until he has played out the last year of his deal. Naturally, the parameters of future offers will change for both sides after he has played out his deal.

 

[Anthony!]

But back to the point...

The only financial advantage available for Wilson is if his current-year contract is torn up. If it's not, then the Seahawks have nothing that any other team in the NFL couldn't give Wilson.

The Seahawks can franchise Wilson next year and even the year after, but eventually he can hit the open market if he (or his agent) wants to. When that happens, then all of the QB-starved teams will come a-courting and we hit Stupid Money territory.

The only card the Seahawks can play to stave off that eventuality is to tear up the current year and replace it with a shiny new contract, because that is the only action the Seahawk can take that other teams can't, and the only way the Seahawks can avoid Stupid Money while retaining Wilson.

It would probably take some artful dodging to get him under a new contract this year, but in reality that's the only way I see it playing out. Otherwise we start shopping for our new guy now, because regardless of how few teams run a system like ours that fits Wilson to a T, there are teams out there (hello Cleveland) that are absolutely desperate for anyone who can chuck a ball, get butts on seats, and give their sucky franchise a glimmer of hope.

There are even good teams with a QB coming to the end of his use-by date that would LOVE to get their hands on Wilson. Do you think John Elway looks at Wilson and doesn't see a version of himself? Let's say Peyton retires after this year. Hawks franchise Wilson. You think Denver wouldn't trade 2 first-rounders for a young John Elway to lead them to the Super Bowl? With John Elway making that call? Revenge on the team that beat them in the Super Bowl? A blow against a division rival in the day when Elway was playing? Might as well put a ribbon around it while we're at it.

Now please list the players you would like to see released to make room for Wilson's $27 million a year in new money.

There is nothing Denver can hypothetically offer Wilson that we would not match, which is our right under the non-exclusive tag.

Ahh why 27 mil? How about 5 mil this year and then kick up to say 22 mil the next 4. That would be a total of 93 mil over 5 years or 18.5 a year, as an example. I still do not believe that is the issue, I think it is 5 year opposed to 4, and Wilson who has already said he is fine playing at the current 1.5. But to say you cannot tear up this year and give him, more is well wrong. Even if you say 27 mil a year in new money for 4 years that is 108 mil and then add in his 1.5 for this year you have 109.5 for 5 years or 21.9 mil a year. So again they can do it, but do not want to do it. As I said I think there are 2 factors in play, 1 5 years opposed to 4(not counting this year) and the 100mil mark. I do not believe the FO wants to do more than 4 year and want to go over 100mil. Other wise this deal would be done.

 

[Anthony!]

Russell Okung seems to be the only player on our squad that has a 6 year contract.

Okung signed his deal before the new CBA rookie salary scale. Jon Ryan is on the final year of his six-year deal. Brandon Mebane signed a five-year deal in 2011.

Since then, Schneider has worked diligently to fairly compensate our star players with deals that allow them to enter free agency before they turn 30 years old, thereby increasing the amount of money these players will have the potential to earn going into 3rd contracts.

That is why it is so baffling that we have not been able to get closer to a deal with Wilson's agent, who seems to want to stray from NFL standards relating to new and guaranteed money. This organization has a proven track record of doing everything they can under the salary cap to support our players in that regard. If he can't get a deal done with us, then good luck getting a deal done with other teams after he forces us to use the non-exclusive tag on Wilson.

You assuming that is why he is doing it, or maybe he only wants 4 years so he can reload with cheaper talent. So again stop you cannot prove any of this however we now know Wilson wants a 5 year deal and is willing to play this year at 1.5 so that means an ext.

This is lacking a basic understanding of contract formation. Offers are only valid for a reasonable period of time. Hence, Wilson's current offer is only good until he has played out the last year of his deal. Naturally, the parameters of future offers will change for both sides after he has played out his deal.

NO this you refusing to recognize there are other reasons why things are done and the Hawks FO do things differently for different reasons. The realty still stands we know Wilson wants a 5 year deal no place does it say tear up his current deal, you have nothing from his agent or Wilson saying that, you are assuming, and that proves nothing.

 

[hawknation2015]

You assuming that is why he is doing it, or maybe he only wants 4 years so he can reload with cheaper talent. So again stop you cannot prove any of this however we now know Wilson wants a 5 year deal and is willing to play this year at 1.5 so that means an ext.

This is lacking a basic understanding of contract formation. Offers are only valid for a reasonable period of time. Hence, Wilson's current offer is only good until he has played out the last year of his deal. Naturally, the parameters of future offers will change for both sides after he has played out his deal.

NO this you refusing to recognize there are other reasons why things are done and the Hawks FO do things differently for different reasons. The realty still stands we know Wilson wants a 5 year deal no place does it say tear up his current deal, you have nothing from his agent or Wilson saying that, you are assuming, and that proves nothing.

You think the the rumored five years, $110 million deal that Wilson wants is prospective because he is "willing to play this year at 1.5 so that means an ext." And that just makes no sense whatsoever and flies in the face of his agent's stated disregard for new money. This conversation is honestly like talking to a brick wall. :177692:

 

[Anthony!]

You assuming that is why he is doing it, or maybe he only wants 4 years so he can reload with cheaper talent. So again stop you cannot prove any of this however we now know Wilson wants a 5 year deal and is willing to play this year at 1.5 so that means an ext.

This is lacking a basic understanding of contract formation. Offers are only valid for a reasonable period of time. Hence, Wilson's current offer is only good until he has played out the last year of his deal. Naturally, the parameters of future offers will change for both sides after he has played out his deal.

NO this you refusing to recognize there are other reasons why things are done and the Hawks FO do things differently for different reasons. The realty still stands we know Wilson wants a 5 year deal no place does it say tear up his current deal, you have nothing from his agent or Wilson saying that, you are assuming, and that proves nothing.

You think the the rumored five years, $110 million deal that Wilson wants is prospective because he is "willing to play this year at 1.5 so that means an ext." And that just makes no sense whatsoever and flies in the face of his agent's stated disregard for new money. This conversation is honestly like talking to a brick wall. :177692:

Of course it does because believing anything else would prove you wrong, again your assuming. They are in contract negotiations on an ext, they want a 5 year deal you put 2 and 2 together. Seems really simple, unless of course you assume and want it to mean something else. As to talking to a brick wall, of course it does because you need it to so you can be right, problem is nothing you have said makes you right it just makes you someone who loves to assume.

 

[hawknation2015]

Of course it does because believing anything else would prove you wrong, again your assuming. They are in contract negotiations on an ext, they want a 5 year deal you put 2 and 2 together. Seems really simple, unless of course you assume and want it to mean something else. As to talking to a brick wall, of course it does because you need it to so you can be right, problem is nothing you have said makes you right it just makes you someone who loves to assume.

There is what we know, which is almost nothing, and what we can safely infer would benefit each party. Unfortunately, none of your inference make much sense.

(1) You claimed that Lynch's extension opened the door to Wilson getting new money this year in addition to his signing bonus. This is factually incorrct, as Lynch's extension contains no new money this year outside of the usual signing bonus and his extension is cap neutral this year, yet you cannot admit you are wrong.

(2) You claimed that longer deals benefit the players by giving them more security against injuries, even though I proved that longer deals contain little to no guaranteed money in their final years.

(3) You believe Wilson's agent wants a longer deal and does not want new money added on this year outside of the usual signing bonus, which would contradict his own statements disagreeing with the traditional new money distinction, arguing that long contracts for QBs are essentially meaningless, and desiring for his clients to hit free agency.

(4) You don't think extensions for QBs in the final year of their rookie deals typically include low cap hits in those final years that are offset by large signing bonuses, which is also flat out wrong.

And now (5) you think Wilson's willingness to play out this season without an extension means his current offer is prospective when those things bear no relation to one another. The terms of a current offer, before Wilson has played out the season, are not the same as a future offer's terms after Wilson has played out the season.

 

[rideaducati]

I love how EVERYONE with an opinion is pointed out as "assuming" by Anthony, but Anthony argues like hell on his very own ASSUMPTIONS. Anthony, these are all assumptions...even by you. Let us assume WTF we want and we'll see whose assumptions were better when Russell signs his contract next week.

I'm still betting on Russell signing before training camp. I don't care if it is a four, five or more year deal, I just care enough to want to say "I told you so" to Anthony.

By the way, Russell has ZERO leverage right now.

 

[hawknation2015]

I love how EVERYONE with an opinion is pointed out as "assuming" by Anthony, but Anthony argues like hell on his very own ASSUMPTIONS. Anthony, these are all assumptions...even by you. Let us assume WTF we want and we'll see whose assumptions were better when Russell signs his contract next week.

I'm still betting on Russell signing before training camp. I don't care if it is a four, five or more year deal, I just care enough to want to say "I told you so" to Anthony.

By the way, Russell has ZERO leverage right now.

Some are ill-conceived assumptions, while others are blatant misstatements of fact, I.e. the terms of Lynch's extension, Rodgers' extension, Newton's, etc.

I wouldn't say Wilson has no leverage. If he wanted to screw over whomever his future team will be, he would have that opportunity under the non-exclusive tag. Franchise QBs don't typically do this because they want their teams to have the cap flexibility to remain competitive.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

I really don't know if Wilson is serious about playing out his contract but it wouldn't surprise me given his personality and his agent . An agent with zero experience in NFL contracts. So if he doesn't sign before the first preseason game he's not going to . To me that's the cutoff, he will have to make a choice of risking injury or signing we will see. Even just playing in training camp is rolling the dice hard to believe he would take that risk .

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Thank God TC is starting in a month or so. This Wilson contract drama is way beyond boring. He'll sign with us, it will be for ridiculous money, it will seem to be team unfriendly, Tical21 will hate it and join Anthony in trolling anything about Wilson.

We'll win several Superbowls. Fair trade to me.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Now please list the players you would like to see released to make room for Wilson's $27 million a year in new money.

Why should I? It's not my opinion that we should retain Wilson at that price. I'm merely pointing out that's the only realistic way we keep him, in my opinion, if his agent wants to see him hit the open market.

There is nothing Denver can hypothetically offer Wilson that we would not match, which is our right under the non-exclusive tag.

First, Denver is just one of the teams that would be in the hunt for him, and second they can offer him a passing-friendly offense in a passing-friendly environment where he'll be encouraged to break all the records he wants. Denver will just happened to have cleared off $20 million in QB expenditure with no cap impact through Manning's retirement, so they would be in a good place to offer Wilson a contract that Seattle shouldn't match, and Elway, for reasons previously mentioned, is a good candidate to do just that.

But like I said, that's just one of the teams. Who else is looking for a QB out there? Most of the league. Chances are someone would want to pony up more than we would be willing to pay, and wouldn't care about giving up 2 first-rounders because in reality they would spend more on draft busts before getting a good one.

Given that, I should be desperate for us to keep Wilson, but I'm not. Offense wins games, but defense wins championships, and we have the best D in the league.

 

[rideaducati]

I really don't know if Wilson is serious about playing out his contract but it wouldn't surprise me given his personality and his agent . An agent with zero experience in NFL contracts. So if he doesn't sign before the first preseason game he's not going to . To me that's the cutoff, he will have to make a choice of risking injury or signing we will see. Even just playing in training camp is rolling the dice hard to believe he would take that risk .

There's not a chance in hell Russell plays out his rookie deal.