"Clayton claims he's "baffled" by Wilson contract talks"

[Popeyejones]

Normally, QBs are partially concerned about fostering a sense of team stability and leaving their team on a solid cap footing so that the team can surround them with the key players to compete at a high level. Wilson has expressed ZERO interest in that, at least so far.

Is that actually true? There's only two QBs I can think of who actually put their money where their mouth was on this (Brady and Kaepernick), Instead, I think MOST QB's are really no different from Wilson on this point. Put another way, Brady and Kaepernick are the outliers, IMO. I think you're being a little too rough on Wilson on this point.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Seattle traded a 1st/3rd/7th for the honor of paying through the nose for Percy Harvin, a mercurial wide receiver whose value came mostly from kick returns.

No QB-needy team in this league would even blink at the thought of surrendering two first rounders to sign Wilson. This shouldn't even be a debate. If a team has a chance to acquire a proven franchise QB, there is hardly a limit on what teams would give up in terms of draft capital. They're that important. What would Cleveland give up for Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers? Probably an entire draft class and then some if they had the chance. And it would probably be worth it.

Ya if you think about it...2 first rounders to give up is pretty fair and not bad at all. You could have those 2 players or you could have a franchise QB. You are really only truly down 1 player. 2 players to 1 player

Although this doesnt take into account trading obv to pick up a few more picks but IMO that is fairly rare

Also some teams are just that one QB away. One glaring example IMO was the 2009 vikings when they signed Favre. Most of that entire set was set and the QB position was god awful. If it werent for stupid turnovers and questionable refs against the saints and bountygate they most likely would of went on to face Indy and cleaned them out.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Who knows if Wilson would be as successful on any other NFL team?
If we have to pay Wilson $20-25M per year, where will we lose depth and quality? Will we then be a team that has a good QB and offense, but just a good, but not GREAT, defense?

Hypothetical:
Would you rather have one more SB win, with a $20M salary cap advantage and then lose Russell...
Or contend for the next 5 years straight but lose in the playoffs each time and not reach the SB?

I'd be just as happy to have Russell play out the year under the current contract, have our best shot ever at another SB win, with our $15-20M advantage at the QB position, and then see what happens after that.
In any case, the 'Hawks need to be developing the best "Plan B" options they can.

I think Russell Wilson's skill set has unique value in the Seattle system, but not necessarily elsewhere. Wilson and the offense struggled and squandered pretty much a full quarter in SBXLIX while New England made a 10-point comeback. Where was our great QB then? It's not like New England had a truly incredible defense. Blame Bevell if you want, but Wilson didn't exactly get it done when it mattered. Wilson is TOO SHORT for that playcall, and it cost us the Lombardi. (Personally, I blame Bevell more for the retarded playcall that had Wilson using a below-NFL-average area of his skills instead of taking advantage of a playcall that DID use Wilson's true gifts, mobility and decision-making)

The despised Niners made it to a Super Bowl with Colin Kaepernick as their QB, and would have won were it not for Jacoby Jones' 108 yard kickoff return. The Ravens of 2000-ish won a Super Bowl with Trent-freaking-Dilfer as their QB, with an all-time elite defense, which is pretty much the setup the Hawks are in position to prove they have.

I'm fine with letting Russell play out the final year of his rookie contract and taking our chances with that.
How do we know that Belichick and the Patriots didn't expose enough fatal flaws in Wilson's game in SB XLIX that other teams will now use this year to stymie and ultimately beat the Hawks?

Do we really know that Wilson can carry the team himself with $20M less of talent on Defense and Offense?
How many times has Wilson carried the team with the +$20M advantage we have now? I'd like to say GB NFCCG, but really, Wilson dug that hole, and the D shut down Rogers just enough, the Special Teams made big plays, so it's hard to credit Wilson fully with carrying the team out of it. I could go with Wilson carrying the team in several games in 2012, including Chicago, and in the Atlanta loss in the playoffs, and in 2013, maybe the NFCCG vs Niners, but again it was Wilson's screwups that helped set up the dire circumstances to begin with, and it was the D that sealed the game.

If Wilson's agent wants to roll the dice, fine, but the sky is NOT falling for the Seahawks. Would Seattle be a better team by tying up $25M/Year in the QB position? I'm not convinced the answer is yes. Could PC/JS strike gold again in the draft at QB, or by a retread who discovers new life when they have an elite defense and a great running game? Let Wilson and his agent do what they will, but the Seattle FO should not cave to team-crippling demands.

The problem with this thinking is that Lynch may ALSO be gone in a year or two. What happens if we lose both Lynch and Wilson? I dont think the D could carry us to victory very much

 

[bigtrain21]

Normally, QBs are partially concerned about fostering a sense of team stability and leaving their team on a solid cap footing so that the team can surround them with the key players to compete at a high level. Wilson has expressed ZERO interest in that, at least so far.

Is that actually true? There's only two QBs I can think of who actually put their money where their mouth was on this (Brady and Kaepernick), Instead, I think MOST QB's are really no different from Wilson on this point. Put another way, Brady and Kaepernick are the outliers, IMO. I think you're being a little too rough on Wilson on this point.

Kaepernick's contract isn't extremely team friendly in the sense that the 49ers can add more players around him. It's team friendly in the sense that it is easy for the 49ers to get rid of him if they are not satisfied with his play. He's getting paid about what he deserves and he isn't cheap for what he provides.

I think you are forgetting how negotiation with Kaepernick went. There were rumors of him being willing to play 2014 for his base salary and forgo negotiating his extension until 2015. Then there were rumors of him wanting a Jay Cutler type contract. He ended up signing in June.

This is how contract negotiation go and you can't believe everything you read and rumors. Not one of us really knows what he is demanding...

 

[WilsonMVP]

I just want to add this to the conversation after thinking about it for a bit.

Before getting into it let me tell you that I own a Wilson Jersey, Have loved Wilson since preseason his rookie year, claimed he would be the best QB in that draft after preseason and knew towards the end of his rookie year he was the best QB the hawks have ever had. If it was my choice I would want him here his entire career and I cant say enough good things about him. I will never forget him taking the team to its first superbowl win.

Question for everyone. Is it a bad thing if we let Wilson play out this year on his rookie contract? There are 2 advantages I see with it.

Advantage 1. Assuming everyone stays relatively healthy, it sounds like our offense might pass a little bit more with Graham in the picture. With Graham and from what I have been reading and seeing from camps Lockett it seems Wilson might be setup really well to prove all the doubters wrong. Maybe this year he posts 4000+ passing yards with another 600+ rushing yards. He can finally show everyone he is worth Franchise QB money and that he IS one of the top QBs in the game. See what he can do with actual weapons around him instead of just Lynch.

Advantage 2. If we do save money this year are we able to push someone elses contract up to clear more space in future years. I assume we could push money up in Earl,Sherm or Kams contract no? Or if we plan on signing Wagner give him a large ammount up front. If this is not possible I apologize it just seems like a good idea. Alternatively I guess we could sign 1-2 players for a 1 year contract if they are a late cut to help with depth.


The only disadvantage I can see is that by waiting we might have to pay him more money especially if Luck signs before Wilson does. I have a feeling Luck will get a gigantic contract

Either way I am not overly worried about Wilson playing next year on his rookie year. I just hope if he does we take advantage of it and dont just sit on cap space.

 

[rideaducati]

Normally, QBs are partially concerned about fostering a sense of team stability and leaving their team on a solid cap footing so that the team can surround them with the key players to compete at a high level. Wilson has expressed ZERO interest in that, at least so far.

Is that actually true? There's only two QBs I can think of who actually put their money where their mouth was on this (Brady and Kaepernick), Instead, I think MOST QB's are really no different from Wilson on this point. Put another way, Brady and Kaepernick are the outliers, IMO. I think you're being a little too rough on Wilson on this point.

How can Keeporpick's deal be considered "team friendly" when they're paying him top ten money and getting bottom ten results?

 

[Bigbadhawk]

Normally, QBs are partially concerned about fostering a sense of team stability and leaving their team on a solid cap footing so that the team can surround them with the key players to compete at a high level. Wilson has expressed ZERO interest in that, at least so far.

Is that actually true? There's only two QBs I can think of who actually put their money where their mouth was on this (Brady and Kaepernick), Instead, I think MOST QB's are really no different from Wilson on this point. Put another way, Brady and Kaepernick are the outliers, IMO. I think you're being a little too rough on Wilson on this point.

How can Keeporpick's deal be considered "team friendly" when they're paying him top ten money and getting bottom ten results?

If a team believes they have a qb of the future they will pay him, why do you think Tannehill got his contract with the Dolphins this year for 77 million in new money in his 4 year extension. The Niners believed or still do that Kaep is their franchise quarterback so they paid him. As it has already been mentioned though his contract is set up in a way that the Niners organization can cut ties easily if they feel the need to move on unlike Chicago that has Cutler and contract that has basically handcuffed Chicago from having any hopes of trading or cutting him with his poor performance. Chicago I am sure would love Kaeps team friendly contract set up at this point.

 

[Anthony!]

Leave it to a Broncos writer to nail it.
http://www.denverpost.com/renck/ci_28346691/russell-wilson-deserves-franchise-qb-money-role-seahawks

This is "Paul Harvey" with the rest of the story:

1. Apparently the Seahawks HAVE offered Wilson Franchise QB money at least by NFL standards.
2. Wilson wants the Seahawks to completely tear up the last year of his current contract and start with 20+ million APY THIS year (and that would be a cap disaster). Not only that, but virtually no NFL team does that for anyone. You tack onto existing contracts for cap relief if nothing else (even Rodgers did this).

HMm it doe snot say that any place in this article you are assuming, its read he wants a 5 year deal not tear up and a new deal. Add tot hat his willing ness to play out this year that tells me you are wrong, Lets stop assuming shall we.

That fact he wants a 100+ million five year deal starting from right now does mean he wants to rip up the last year of his rookie contract and start with 20+ million per year. It's the only way to make that math work. Naturally that's a non-starter for any NFL team (not even Green Bay did this with Aaron Rogers). The fact that Wilson is "willing" to play out his last year is strictly a power play on his part (or more likely on the part of his agent). No it doesn't make much sense which is Clayton's entire point if you are looking at dollar amount. I think that Wilson and (esp) Rodgers are looking at something else, i.e. trying to 'revolutionize' how NFL deals are done to be more on baseball lines. That's not gonna fly.

great but again it does not say that and since they are negotiating now that would mean an extension. So again you can assume all you want but so far there is nothing in that article that supports it.

 

[Anthony!]

I just want to add this to the conversation after thinking about it for a bit.

Before getting into it let me tell you that I own a Wilson Jersey, Have loved Wilson since preseason his rookie year, claimed he would be the best QB in that draft after preseason and knew towards the end of his rookie year he was the best QB the hawks have ever had. If it was my choice I would want him here his entire career and I cant say enough good things about him. I will never forget him taking the team to its first superbowl win.

Question for everyone. Is it a bad thing if we let Wilson play out this year on his rookie contract? There are 2 advantages I see with it.

Advantage 1. Assuming everyone stays relatively healthy, it sounds like our offense might pass a little bit more with Graham in the picture. With Graham and from what I have been reading and seeing from camps Lockett it seems Wilson might be setup really well to prove all the doubters wrong. Maybe this year he posts 4000+ passing yards with another 600+ rushing yards. He can finally show everyone he is worth Franchise QB money and that he IS one of the top QBs in the game. See what he can do with actual weapons around him instead of just Lynch.

Advantage 2. If we do save money this year are we able to push someone elses contract up to clear more space in future years. I assume we could push money up in Earl,Sherm or Kams contract no? Or if we plan on signing Wagner give him a large ammount up front. If this is not possible I apologize it just seems like a good idea. Alternatively I guess we could sign 1-2 players for a 1 year contract if they are a late cut to help with depth.


The only disadvantage I can see is that by waiting we might have to pay him more money especially if Luck signs before Wilson does. I have a feeling Luck will get a gigantic contract

Either way I am not overly worried about Wilson playing next year on his rookie year. I just hope if he does we take advantage of it and dont just sit on cap space.

Good thoughts, however it will not prove the doubters wrong, they then will say its only because of Graham, or he still has Lynch and that Defense. Wilson will never get the credit he deserves as long a Lynch is here and we have the #1. You need to go no further than our own board here to see that.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

You're assuming Popeye (as I think Wilson's agent is) that the Seahawks will have to use the exclusive franchise tag. If you look at the projected cap spaces of QB-needy teams, you'll find that the Seahawks can almost certainly match any offer any of these other clubs would make....and Wilson would be forced to play for Seattle anyhow. Also the non-exclusive tag is IIRC the top TEN not the top FIVE and that makes a big difference.

No, I think that Wilson is being poorly served by his agent on this. The NFL simply doesn't work like baseball, and it's often *not* to the advantage of the client to make it to free-agency, and this is such a case. Clayton has outlined the numbers on this exceptionally well.

I disagree his agent is serving him right, if they use the non exclusive tag some team will offer him what he wants and then the Hawks will match and yes he stays here but the FO looks bad because they could have avoided all of this from the beginning, then the risk the offer he gets Is more than the FO wants to pay and there for will not match. Clayton outlined the numbers based on what he thinks will happen and was offered but he does not really know.

You sure about that? I am not being quip. Remember that making Wilson an offer under these conditions would cost TWO first round draft picks. That's a king's ransom. Now for some teams that really need a QB, it might be worth it, but that's going to cut down on the potential suiters right there drastically. Then you have to consider how much cap space the Seahawks are likely to have (as opposed to what other teams are likely to have). What GM likes to negotiate a deal for another team? [Not too many I think.] That being so, the fact Seattle can match will restrict the pool even further (those with tight caps need not apply). Finally in light of all this, how many GMs would rather go through all this rather than going for a drafted QB.

Basically even in this worst case scenario (which I still doubt will really happen), I can't imagine too many teams willing to even talk to Russel let alone give him an offer that they know the 'hawks will simply match. It's just not worth it (from their PoV). Now if we were talking transition tag, that'd be different, but nobody is fool enough to use *that* tag (and Seattle least of all I think).

How many draft picks has a team like say Cleveland wasted trying to find a great QB like Wilson? There is your answer, yes its worth it.

damn straight.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

You're also assuming they'd use the unrestricted tag, which doesn't make any sense from the Hawks' side unless they're 1) after the draft picks or 2) sincerely believe they've already offered Wilson more than anyone else would. If they're after the draft picks so be it, but if they sincerely believe #2, they're dumb for offering him that much to begin with (and as I've said repeatedly, I don't think John Schneider is dumb).

It DOES make sense for Seattle to use the non-exclusive tag on Wilson (if it comes to that).

Using your numbering system,

1) they are not after the draft picks... no way, no how. The plan is to retain Wilson any way possible. He's their nugget and he's going nowhere else.

2) your premise here is they offered Wilson more than anybody else would, which may not be the case. Let's assume that Clayton is spot-on with his assigned value of a reasonable contract for Wilson at 4 years/$87M... and let's say after Seattle puts the non-exclusive tag on Wilson another team (or more) steps up to the plate and puts together an offer sheet for 4 years/$91M (or somewhere in between... or for slightly more).

What would Seattle do???... they'd match the offer and lock up Wilson.

There's nothing dumb with that strategy.

Seattle believes it knows what Wilson's fair market value is. I am assuming that is what they are currently offering him. To date, Wilson does not agree... so why not put the non-exclusive tag on him in 2016 (if it comes to that) and let his fair market value be determined by the actual market?

The Hawks don't do bidding wars. That's why they like renegotiating during the last year of a player's contract. A bidding war would lead to him being the highest paid player in the league. The Hawks need to do a brother right, like Baltimore did with Flacce.

 

[LTH]

This is really simple...


Seahawks: This is our best deal we are willing to negotiate... take it or you will play out your rookie contract... then at the end of next season assuming your not hurt this same deal will be on the table if you do not take it you will be franchised... and we will go down this road until you sign the deal or get hurt to where we dont want you...

simple ... take it or leave it... :thfight7:


LTH

 

[hawknation2015]

Normally, QBs are partially concerned about fostering a sense of team stability and leaving their team on a solid cap footing so that the team can surround them with the key players to compete at a high level. Wilson has expressed ZERO interest in that, at least so far.

Is that actually true? There's only two QBs I can think of who actually put their money where their mouth was on this (Brady and Kaepernick), Instead, I think MOST QB's are really no different from Wilson on this point. Put another way, Brady and Kaepernick are the outliers, IMO. I think you're being a little too rough on Wilson on this point.

Yes, one way QBs typically give their teams better cap flexibility is by accepting a lower base salary in the year they sign their deal in exchange for a massive signing bonus. This allows the team to ease into the large salary increase by initially prorating the signing bonus in the season before the new deal kicks in.

Wilson's baseball agent has said he disagrees with this NFL norm and that the standard "new money" designation should not matter. In fact, he referred to it as "annoying." Therefore, they want Wilson's average salary to include this season, which is not something previous franchise QBs (Rodgers, Newton, Ryan and yes Kaepernick) ever considered doing to their respective teams.

In that way, a $22 a year deal now becomes an absurd $27 million a year extension in new money.

Of course, with the way Kaepernick has continued to perform in the critical moments of games, his contract no longer looks as team friendly as it once did. You can't be "friendly" to your team when you are constantly giving away games as the worst 4th Quarter QB in the league.

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/le ... =110&year=

 

[Anthony!]

This is really simple...


Seahawks: This is our best deal we are willing to negotiate... take it or you will play out your rookie contract... then at the end of next season assuming your not hurt this same deal will be on the table if you do not take it you will be franchised... and we will go down this road until you sign the deal or get hurt to where we dont want you...

simple ... take it or leave it... :thfight7:


LTH

ahh not really, Yes they will franchise him next year, at 25 mil for exclusive and a little over 20 mil for non exclusive. If exclusive great but after next year it goes to over 30 which we cannot do. If non exclusive and hey gets a huge offer we either we match it and wasted our time or we do not and we loose him. So no they will not go down this road till you sign as you can only tag someone for 3 years and truthfully if exclusive you can only afford to for 1 year, if non exclusive you can afford 2 years but you also run the risk of loosing him or paying big. So not so simple and then there is the hold out till just before the season starts, the uncertainty, the bad blood, the distractions etc. FYI if the Hawks best deal is not fair? Like I said far from simple.

 

[Anthony!]

Normally, QBs are partially concerned about fostering a sense of team stability and leaving their team on a solid cap footing so that the team can surround them with the key players to compete at a high level. Wilson has expressed ZERO interest in that, at least so far.

Is that actually true? There's only two QBs I can think of who actually put their money where their mouth was on this (Brady and Kaepernick), Instead, I think MOST QB's are really no different from Wilson on this point. Put another way, Brady and Kaepernick are the outliers, IMO. I think you're being a little too rough on Wilson on this point.

Yes, one way QBs typically give their teams better cap flexibility is by accepting a lower base salary in the year they sign their deal in exchange for a massive signing bonus. This allows the team to ease into the large salary increase by initially prorating the signing bonus in the season before the new deal kicks in.

Wilson's baseball agent has said he disagrees with this NFL norm and that the standard "new money" designation should not matter. In fact, he referred to it as "annoying." Therefore, they want Wilson's average salary to include this season, which is not something previous franchise QBs (Rodgers, Newton, Ryan and yes Kaepernick) ever considered doing to their respective teams.

In that way, a $22 a year deal now becomes an absurd $27 million a year extension in new money.

Of course, with the way Kaepernick has continued to perform in the critical moments of games, his contract no longer looks as team friendly as it once did. You can't be "friendly" to your team when you are constantly giving away games as the worst 4th Quarter QB in the league.

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/le ... =110&year=

That is all true but they do not usually do that on their first big contract, usually it is their 2nd and Newtons deal is not that team friendly. Also again we have no proof they want to tear up this year, I man to say you are ready to play at 1.5 mil but you want this year tore up do not go together, I still think this is about a 5 year deal instead of 4. And to be clear right now the Hawks are offering a 4 year ext and I believe Wilson wants 5 or more year ext. The Hawks as a norm only do 4 year Ext.

 

[hawknation2015]

Here is Wilson's agent's on why he finds the standard new money designation "annoying."

Look, if I find a dollar in an old pair of shoes that dollar spends the same way as a dollar I just got at the bank today. So, again, I’m not sure about ‘old money’ and ‘new money.’ I get what they are trying to get at when they talk about it. Money is money. It spends the same way.

Yes, money is money. How these extensions typically work (Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, etc.) is that the franchise QB exchanges his low base salary in the year he signs his extension in exchange for massive upfront money in the form of a signing bonus. Wilson's agent is going against the industry standard, why? Because he knows it's a tactic that could greatly increase their expectation money (going from being the highest paid player in the league at $22 million a year to receiving $27 million a year in new money). That's not fair dealing, and it's certainly not "reasonable."

In this same answer, he goes on to explain his warped understanding of how NFL deals work for franchise QBs:

"I think – and this is where I think it gets technical and tedious, at times: NFL contracts are complicated, right? There are a lot of details in a contract. Obviously there are signing bonuses and there’s guaranteed money – in football, obviously, guaranteed money. Total value, with quarterbacks’ deals it’s somewhat of a misnomer because total value presumes players are going to make every penny of that deal. You guys know, you go down the history … look at Tony Romo’s deal. Tony Romo has renegotiated his contract almost every, single year. Ben Roethlisberger just did a renegotiation. Tom Brady. Peyton Manning. Drew Brees is probably getting ready to do one at some point. And so the truth of the matter is that these contracts for these quarterbacks never get to the end. And there’s a reason for that. Obviously franchise quarterbacks are hard to find, are hard to come by. Look at what happened in the draft this year, you speculate on talent and potential but at the end of the day you feel a lot better having that talent on your team than not having that talent on your team. At the end of the day – it’s a complicated question. People do classes on the salary cap and how money is defined with option bonuses and workout bonuses. It gets very complicated. I think at the end of the day all of that is relevant, all of that is in play. And the key for us is figure out which variety of those and what amounts do we place on each to get a deal done that is reasonable.”

What is the reason for that, Mark? I wish he would have used his synapses to complete the thought. Why do franchise QBs choose--which is the operative word-- to assist their teams by renegotiating their massive contracts? The reason is because their interest in winning, and their team's interest in maintaining cap flexibility, are one in the same. That is a fundamental interest that neither Wilson nor his agent have ever explicitly mentioned. And it's not something Wilson's agent normally has to deal with in the uncapped world of baseball, where his top free agents can go on to sign with the Yankees or Dodgers. Also, as someone who has been supported by a championship-caliber defense these last few years, this is not an imperative that Wilson has ever felt.

That is all true but they do not usually do that on their first big contract, usually it is their 2nd and Newtons deal is not that team friendly. Also again we have no proof they want to tear up this year, I man to say you are ready to play at 1.5 mil but you want this year tore up do not go together, I still think this is about a 5 year deal instead of 4. And to be clear right now the Hawks are offering a 4 year ext and I believe Wilson wants 5 or more year ext. The Hawks as a norm only do 4 year Ext.

Nope, that's 100% incorrect. Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, etc. all accepted low base salaries in the year they signed their extensions in exchange for signing bonuses that were prorated against the cap. That gave them money upfront and allowed their team to ease into their massive salary increases. It's actually more common-- and easier done-- when the player is in the final year of his rookie contract because their initial cap hit is already low, allowing the team to absorb the massive signing bonus without significant cap impairment.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Base salaries are almost totally meaningless. The only real $ is the guaranteed $.

 

[Anthony!]

Here is Wilson's agent's on why he finds the standard new money designation "annoying."

Look, if I find a dollar in an old pair of shoes that dollar spends the same way as a dollar I just got at the bank today. So, again, I’m not sure about ‘old money’ and ‘new money.’ I get what they are trying to get at when they talk about it. Money is money. It spends the same way.

Yes, money is money. How these extensions typically work (Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, etc.) is that the franchise QB exchanges his low base salary in the year he signs his extension in exchange for massive upfront money in the form of a signing bonus. Wilson's agent is going against the industry standard, why? Because he knows it's a tactic that could greatly increase their expectation money (going from being the highest paid player in the league at $22 million a year to receiving $27 million a year in new money). That's not fair dealing, and it's certainly not "reasonable."

In this same answer, he goes on to explain his warped understanding of how NFL deals work for franchise QBs:

"I think – and this is where I think it gets technical and tedious, at times: NFL contracts are complicated, right? There are a lot of details in a contract. Obviously there are signing bonuses and there’s guaranteed money – in football, obviously, guaranteed money. Total value, with quarterbacks’ deals it’s somewhat of a misnomer because total value presumes players are going to make every penny of that deal. You guys know, you go down the history … look at Tony Romo’s deal. Tony Romo has renegotiated his contract almost every, single year. Ben Roethlisberger just did a renegotiation. Tom Brady. Peyton Manning. Drew Brees is probably getting ready to do one at some point. And so the truth of the matter is that these contracts for these quarterbacks never get to the end. And there’s a reason for that. Obviously franchise quarterbacks are hard to find, are hard to come by. Look at what happened in the draft this year, you speculate on talent and potential but at the end of the day you feel a lot better having that talent on your team than not having that talent on your team. At the end of the day – it’s a complicated question. People do classes on the salary cap and how money is defined with option bonuses and workout bonuses. It gets very complicated. I think at the end of the day all of that is relevant, all of that is in play. And the key for us is figure out which variety of those and what amounts do we place on each to get a deal done that is reasonable.”

What is the reason for that, Mark? I wish he would have used his synapses to complete the thought. Why do franchise QBs choose--which is the operative word-- to assist their teams by renegotiating their massive contracts? The reason is because their interest in winning, and their team's interest in maintaining cap flexibility, are one in the same. That is a fundamental interest that neither Wilson nor his agent have ever explicitly mentioned. And it's not something Wilson's agent normally has to deal with in the uncapped world of baseball, where his top free agents can go on to sign with the Yankees or Dodgers. Also, as someone who has been supported by a championship-caliber defense these last few years, this is not an imperative that Wilson has ever felt.

That is all true but they do not usually do that on their first big contract, usually it is their 2nd and Newtons deal is not that team friendly. Also again we have no proof they want to tear up this year, I man to say you are ready to play at 1.5 mil but you want this year tore up do not go together, I still think this is about a 5 year deal instead of 4. And to be clear right now the Hawks are offering a 4 year ext and I believe Wilson wants 5 or more year ext. The Hawks as a norm only do 4 year Ext.

Nope, that's 100% incorrect. Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, etc. all accepted low base salaries in the year they signed their extensions in exchange for signing bonuses that were prorated against the cap. That gave them money upfront and allowed their team to ease into their massive salary increases. It's actually more common-- and easier done-- when the player is in the final year of his rookie contract because their initial cap hit is already low, allowing the team to absorb the massive signing bonus without significant cap impairment.

great except all those Qbs were 5+ year deals, so again my point the Hawks have only offered 4 years, all the reports say Wilson wants 5+. so again my point is still valid.

 

[hawknation2015]

Here is Wilson's agent's on why he finds the standard new money designation "annoying."

Look, if I find a dollar in an old pair of shoes that dollar spends the same way as a dollar I just got at the bank today. So, again, I’m not sure about ‘old money’ and ‘new money.’ I get what they are trying to get at when they talk about it. Money is money. It spends the same way.

Yes, money is money. How these extensions typically work (Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, etc.) is that the franchise QB exchanges his low base salary in the year he signs his extension in exchange for massive upfront money in the form of a signing bonus. Wilson's agent is going against the industry standard, why? Because he knows it's a tactic that could greatly increase their expectation money (going from being the highest paid player in the league at $22 million a year to receiving $27 million a year in new money). That's not fair dealing, and it's certainly not "reasonable."

In this same answer, he goes on to explain his warped understanding of how NFL deals work for franchise QBs:

"I think – and this is where I think it gets technical and tedious, at times: NFL contracts are complicated, right? There are a lot of details in a contract. Obviously there are signing bonuses and there’s guaranteed money – in football, obviously, guaranteed money. Total value, with quarterbacks’ deals it’s somewhat of a misnomer because total value presumes players are going to make every penny of that deal. You guys know, you go down the history … look at Tony Romo’s deal. Tony Romo has renegotiated his contract almost every, single year. Ben Roethlisberger just did a renegotiation. Tom Brady. Peyton Manning. Drew Brees is probably getting ready to do one at some point. And so the truth of the matter is that these contracts for these quarterbacks never get to the end. And there’s a reason for that. Obviously franchise quarterbacks are hard to find, are hard to come by. Look at what happened in the draft this year, you speculate on talent and potential but at the end of the day you feel a lot better having that talent on your team than not having that talent on your team. At the end of the day – it’s a complicated question. People do classes on the salary cap and how money is defined with option bonuses and workout bonuses. It gets very complicated. I think at the end of the day all of that is relevant, all of that is in play. And the key for us is figure out which variety of those and what amounts do we place on each to get a deal done that is reasonable.”

What is the reason for that, Mark? I wish he would have used his synapses to complete the thought. Why do franchise QBs choose--which is the operative word-- to assist their teams by renegotiating their massive contracts? The reason is because their interest in winning, and their team's interest in maintaining cap flexibility, are one in the same. That is a fundamental interest that neither Wilson nor his agent have ever explicitly mentioned. And it's not something Wilson's agent normally has to deal with in the uncapped world of baseball, where his top free agents can go on to sign with the Yankees or Dodgers. Also, as someone who has been supported by a championship-caliber defense these last few years, this is not an imperative that Wilson has ever felt.

That is all true but they do not usually do that on their first big contract, usually it is their 2nd and Newtons deal is not that team friendly. Also again we have no proof they want to tear up this year, I man to say you are ready to play at 1.5 mil but you want this year tore up do not go together, I still think this is about a 5 year deal instead of 4. And to be clear right now the Hawks are offering a 4 year ext and I believe Wilson wants 5 or more year ext. The Hawks as a norm only do 4 year Ext.

Nope, that's 100% incorrect. Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, etc. all accepted low base salaries in the year they signed their extensions in exchange for signing bonuses that were prorated against the cap. That gave them money upfront and allowed their team to ease into their massive salary increases. It's actually more common-- and easier done-- when the player is in the final year of his rookie contract because their initial cap hit is already low, allowing the team to absorb the massive signing bonus without significant cap impairment.

great except all those Qbs were 5+ year deals, so again my point the Hawks have only offered 4 years, all the reports say Wilson wants 5+. so again my point is still valid.

I guess you want us to go around in circles again on that irrelevant point. Longer deals for franchise QBs benefit the team. That is a well-known fact, except by you, apparently. Much of the speculation has centered around the fact that Wilson was seeking a four-year extension, aka five-year deal including this year. If Wilson were willing to accept a deal that does not make him a free agent after the 2019 season, then I am sure the team would be happy to sign him to that more team-friendly, longer-term extension. There is no reason, from the team's perspective, not to lock him up for a longer period of time at the current market rate.

However, from Wilson's perspective, a longer deal means just adding another year before he can re-up with more guaranteed money at the future market rate.

 

[Anthony!]

Here is Wilson's agent's on why he finds the standard new money designation "annoying."

Look, if I find a dollar in an old pair of shoes that dollar spends the same way as a dollar I just got at the bank today. So, again, I’m not sure about ‘old money’ and ‘new money.’ I get what they are trying to get at when they talk about it. Money is money. It spends the same way.

Yes, money is money. How these extensions typically work (Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, etc.) is that the franchise QB exchanges his low base salary in the year he signs his extension in exchange for massive upfront money in the form of a signing bonus. Wilson's agent is going against the industry standard, why? Because he knows it's a tactic that could greatly increase their expectation money (going from being the highest paid player in the league at $22 million a year to receiving $27 million a year in new money). That's not fair dealing, and it's certainly not "reasonable."

In this same answer, he goes on to explain his warped understanding of how NFL deals work for franchise QBs:

"I think – and this is where I think it gets technical and tedious, at times: NFL contracts are complicated, right? There are a lot of details in a contract. Obviously there are signing bonuses and there’s guaranteed money – in football, obviously, guaranteed money. Total value, with quarterbacks’ deals it’s somewhat of a misnomer because total value presumes players are going to make every penny of that deal. You guys know, you go down the history … look at Tony Romo’s deal. Tony Romo has renegotiated his contract almost every, single year. Ben Roethlisberger just did a renegotiation. Tom Brady. Peyton Manning. Drew Brees is probably getting ready to do one at some point. And so the truth of the matter is that these contracts for these quarterbacks never get to the end. And there’s a reason for that. Obviously franchise quarterbacks are hard to find, are hard to come by. Look at what happened in the draft this year, you speculate on talent and potential but at the end of the day you feel a lot better having that talent on your team than not having that talent on your team. At the end of the day – it’s a complicated question. People do classes on the salary cap and how money is defined with option bonuses and workout bonuses. It gets very complicated. I think at the end of the day all of that is relevant, all of that is in play. And the key for us is figure out which variety of those and what amounts do we place on each to get a deal done that is reasonable.”

What is the reason for that, Mark? I wish he would have used his synapses to complete the thought. Why do franchise QBs choose--which is the operative word-- to assist their teams by renegotiating their massive contracts? The reason is because their interest in winning, and their team's interest in maintaining cap flexibility, are one in the same. That is a fundamental interest that neither Wilson nor his agent have ever explicitly mentioned. And it's not something Wilson's agent normally has to deal with in the uncapped world of baseball, where his top free agents can go on to sign with the Yankees or Dodgers. Also, as someone who has been supported by a championship-caliber defense these last few years, this is not an imperative that Wilson has ever felt.

That is all true but they do not usually do that on their first big contract, usually it is their 2nd and Newtons deal is not that team friendly. Also again we have no proof they want to tear up this year, I man to say you are ready to play at 1.5 mil but you want this year tore up do not go together, I still think this is about a 5 year deal instead of 4. And to be clear right now the Hawks are offering a 4 year ext and I believe Wilson wants 5 or more year ext. The Hawks as a norm only do 4 year Ext.

Nope, that's 100% incorrect. Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, etc. all accepted low base salaries in the year they signed their extensions in exchange for signing bonuses that were prorated against the cap. That gave them money upfront and allowed their team to ease into their massive salary increases. It's actually more common-- and easier done-- when the player is in the final year of his rookie contract because their initial cap hit is already low, allowing the team to absorb the massive signing bonus without significant cap impairment.

great except all those Qbs were 5+ year deals, so again my point the Hawks have only offered 4 years, all the reports say Wilson wants 5+. so again my point is still valid.

I guess you want us to go around in circles again on that irrelevant point. Longer deals for franchise QBs benefit the team. That is a well-known fact, except by you, apparently. Much of the speculation has centered around the fact that Wilson was seeking a four-year extension, aka five-year deal including this year. If Wilson were willing to accept a deal that does not make him a free agent after the 2019 season, then I am sure the team would be happy to sign him to that more team-friendly, longer-term extension. There is no reason, from the team's perspective, not to lock him up for a longer period of time at the current market rate.

However, from Wilson's perspective, a longer deal means just adding another year before he can re-up with more guaranteed money at the future market rate.

No you just refuse to see the truth the "team" has only done 4 year deals. Wilson has said he wants to stay a Hawk, everyone has said Wilson is looking for 5+ years. Has it occurred to you that Wilson having to run so much, and their unwillingness to spend on the offensive line the FO does not want Wilson for more than 4 years as they are worried he will get hurt? Once again you can try as you might to ignore it, but their history says the Hawks like 4 year deals, the evidence supports Wilson wants longer. Add to that the Hawks like to do things differently and there you go. As to your conjecture of adding 4 years again you are assuming and have no evidence to support it. Like the media you are making stuff up.