Can Russel Wilson become an Elite pocket passer?

[amill87]

Well Wilson has as many rings as Brees, Rodgers, and Manning. So short answer, I don't care if he is ever "elite" in the pocket.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

Russell didn't have a pocket for most of the year.

So first, we need to fix that issue.

Second, we will never have an uptempo, high volume passing game which makes any QB look like an elite pocket passer. We are slow, deliberate and based on the running game.

Third, Russell's ability to throw on the run is the best in football, owing to his days as a second baseman. Why would you not want to utilize this unique ability?

 

[JMR]

If the question is whether RW is an elite *pocket passer* then the answer is NO, not yet. He has the tools to get there though. It takes a few years to get there, and it's possible our approach on offense will keep many from labeling him as an elite passer if the volume stats don't get there. But look at his passer rating, ypa, and TD:INT, and it's right there with all the other "elite" passers.

I think the point where we'll see how much he can shoulder is a season or two away when the miles catch up with Lynch and natural attrition brings our D back to the pack a little bit. When those two things happen, we'll find out if RW can be the next Drew Brees or if we'll still need to prop him up a bit with running and D to keep being a great team.

 

[StoneCold]

This is a silly question. Russ makes great throws from the pocket when he has one. Russ makes great throws on the run when he needs to, and that is not always because the pocket breaks down, sometimes it's because no one was open and he extends the play. Russ is great at running with the ball when he needs to. He has a unique skill set that allows him so many options on every play. He's smart enough to go through 2 + reads on every pass play, he can then get out and extend, if that doesn't open something up he can run it. He causes problems for the defense. He'll continue to get better and cause even more.

SC

 

[themunn]

He has plenty of room to improve on the short to intermediate timing throws. I believe he was last in the league for holding the ball at over 3.5 seconds. This seems like one of the most difficult things for a quarterback to master and I am sure he is being told by Pete to pass on the riskier throws until they absolutely need them.

That being said he has elite accuracy and play-making ability outside of the pocket and he is an elite runner as a QB. The national folks tend to disregard these abilities for the ability to surgically take apart a team with quick throws... which is dumb.

That's because he's the best in the league at extending plays, you can't cover receivers forever. He's just fine on short and intermediate throws.

Look at two passes in the NFCCG as examples. The deep bomb to Doug Baldwin and theKearse TD pass.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

If the question is whether RW is an elite *pocket passer* then the answer is NO, not yet. He has the tools to get there though. It takes a few years to get there, and it's possible our approach on offense will keep many from labeling him as an elite passer if the volume stats don't get there. But look at his passer rating, ypa, and TD:INT, and it's right there with all the other "elite" passers.

Wait... He isn't elite, but all the metrics with which we compare quarterbacks measure up with the "elite" passers? Alright. Seems like sort of a disconnect there. Reality is, he's already there. The only thing that keeps him from being elite in the pocket is the fact that he hasn't had much of a pocket to pass from.

 

[brimsalabim]

good point sailor. I was watching a replay of an NFL AM show from Tuesday and they were " re ranking the young QB's " Eric Davis was really the only one that had Russell's back. They had 1 Luck, 2. Cap 3. Newton. 4 RG3 and were split between Russell and Tannehill. Eric Davis spoke up and asked the question "what more exactly does Russell Wilson need to do in order to catch up to these guys?"

You could ask them same question here with respect to being a pocket passer. People want to discount Russell because he has a great team around him but I can't think of a superbowl that was won by a QB on a bad team.
So the question Eric Davis is really asking is are we actually asking Russell to perform at an even higher level than the guys he is being compared to just to be equal? It's like he is being graded on a reverse curve. He some how carries a handy cap? Manning, Brady, Montana, Favre, Aikman or Elway didn't win super bowls without having talent around them to help get it done.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I thought he already was. What the Superbowl showed is that we need to upgrade our OL. Didn't you see how efficient he is with actual protection even with nothing from Lynch? 123 quarterback rating and unstoppable when it counted (3rd down).

 

[Russ Willstrong]

good point sailor. I was watching a replay of an NFL AM show from Tuesday and they were " re ranking the young QB's " Eric Davis was really the only one that had Russell's back. They had 1 Luck, 2. Cap 3. Newton. 4 RG3 and were split between Russell and Tannehill. Eric Davis spoke up and asked the question "what more exactly does Russell Wilson need to do in order to catch up to these guys?"

You could ask them same question here with respect to being a pocket passer. People want to discount Russell because he has a great team around him but I can't think of a superbowl that was won by a QB on a bad team.
So the question Eric Davis is really asking is are we actually asking Russell to perform at an even higher level than the guys he is being compared to just to be equal? It's like he is being graded on a reverse curve. He some how carries a handy cap? Manning, Brady, Montana, Favre, Aikman or Elway didn't win super bowls without having talent around them to help get it done.

Exactly. He has elite metrics. Why RW will NEVER be seen as elite by some is because of several factors:
Public perception that we win with a dominant defense.
RW'S style of play is to bail out of the pocket.
He is too short to become dominant.
His excessive humility is misinterpreted as weakness.

To change this image RW and we as fans need to allow him to take credit for what he is due.
To start we have to stop questioning what he deserves.
Elite QB get paid BIG money WITHOUT criticism or afterthought.
RW'S play should have gotten him the superbowl mvp because he played to that level AND he needs to be the face of our franchise to make the Seahawks more appealing to the masses.
He will get to elite status with all the records he has broken but he has had a tougher road than most give him credit.
If people think winning superbowl mvp didn't really matter just tune into espn and nfl network to hear how often Malcom Smith is mentioned. It would have been a big step toward validating RW'S entrance into the elite.

 

[seahawks08]

He will find a way to win forever, that's Elite!

 

[Russ Willstrong]

IMO RW wont be elite until his own fan base starts believing it. That's when he becomes the face of a team.
The media will eventually follow suit when all the accolades follow the records.
For now its still unsettling. Some twelves call him elite and some talk about him like the 3rd rounder he was.
Some twelves say he deserves elite qb money while some think he should take as little as a dollar.
Some twelves think we really could actually win the superbowl without a playmaker like RW.

 

[MarylandHawk]

it depends on what you consider a great pocket passer, he will always struggle throwing it between the hashes, but has a great arm.
I think he is a top 6-8 QB in the NFL and a top ten pure pocket passer.
Depends on what you consider elite, I would still take Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, and maybe Luck over him

Interesting....considering all of them except Luck are in the downslope of their careers.

 

[drdiags]

It's unfortunate that Wilson is considered too short to play NFL QB. There is a bias in peoples minds because of the messaging they see and hear from all the talking heads. He will never get past this stigma. He can have tons of achievements during his career but there will be those with the "yeah, but" or "game manager" putdowns.

If the OP is looking for the day when the national mediots are singing Wilson's praises as an elite "standard" QB, it is not going to happen. People just have an ingrained image of what an elite QB is. They tend to think of someone who stands "tall" in the pocket and looks like a greek god (though Unitas looked like my grandpa out there slinging it around). Heck, Joe Namath looked like he was hunched over, but I digress.

Teams will dally with tall corners for awhile, but in the end they will go toward what their coaches feel comfortable with. Short QBs and tall corners aren't for everybody.

 

[Sarlacc83]

This OP is spot on. If Russell gets to the elite realm, I bet we win the Super Bowl!

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

This OP is spot on. If Russell gets to the elite realm, I bet we win the Super Bowl!

Err, Uh..nevermind. :mrgreen:

 

[ZagHawk]

I don't think it's fair to the other "elite QBs" which I believe composes of Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Manning to already be calling RW elite. I think RW has the potential to be elite, I think he's already good if not great, but I don't think he's elite...YET. I think after a few more similar seasons getting deep into the playoffs, or with one more Super Bowl win. There will be no denying it, but at this point, it's just too early in his career. Let's all not forget RW's mini-slump he went through during the final 5 games of the regular season, which is a small amount of games, but for a 2 year player that's not that tiny. Now if RW played his entire two seasons the way he capped out last season, I think there would be a lot less questions.

To answer your question CAN RW become an Elite pocket passer...yes he CAN. Will he...not if that O-line keeps collapsing like they did earlier this season.

 

[AVL]

For Russell Wilson to be considered ELITE universally, he must be perfect. He is held to different standards than someone like Luck.

 

[lobohawk]

I have faith that with experience and his work ethic Russell will continue to develop his pre-snap reads, progressions, quick release, etc (the things that define an elite QB). For a second year QB he's already ahead of the curve in these areas.

I do wonder if his scrambling ability and ability to throw on the move slightly hinder his development in those areas. If you can scramble and such, the need isn't as great to perfect those others skills as quickly as some might. Peyton, Brady, etc had to develop those skills, because they had nothing else to lean on. You see this with many athletic players who come to the pros. Their game is slow to develop, as they have grown up always relying on their athletic ability to cover for other aspects.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's a Superbowl champ, and played his butt off IN THE SUPERBOWL, IN THE POCKET.
So yes, he can.

 

[Anthony!]

Russ isn't an elite anything yet, he has a lot to learn about being an NFL QB. Carroll certainly expects a lot more progress.

About being a pocket passer, I think he can be great in the pocket but excellent outside of the pocket as well. He'll want to maintain the threat of scrambling. It seems like the days of the true NFL pocket passer are numbered, QB's like Wilson offer more options.

Okay agree to disagree