Byron Maxwell. What's Your Take?

[Cartire]

So in this video, we see the TD. IT was Cover 3, which is easily deciphered by Kam staying back in the middle and the two corners dropping back in coverage. And ET playing intermediate Zone. I would like to point out though, that this specific offensive play is designed to counter Cover 3. We actually would have been far better off going to a cover 4, or Cover 2. But, it is what it is. This was in no way Wrights fault, and Maxwell stuck the man to long. But like I said, this play design is suppose to do exactly what it did.

[youtube]A3KZWinSCwc[/youtube]

 

[Reaneypark]

It's not very fair to judge Maxwell 2014 based on Maxwell 2013 or Browner. The defensive holding emphasis makes it so much more difficult to prevent completions. If you have great QBs throwing accurate balls to good route runners, there's only so much a CB can do.

I give him a B.

 

[Mick063]

Here is my take:

I can tell the relative football savvy of many folks here by the number of Maxwell threads as opposed to the number of Bennett/Avril threads. The two position groups are deeply interconnected.

It isn't hard to figure out where Seattle isn't meeting the high standards set from last season and Maxwell is taking an undue beating for it. For that matter, so is KJ Wright.

When the pass rush eventually comes on (hopefully), people will suddenly proclaim that Maxwell has dramatically improved. Confidence for a corner is knowing the quarterback is uncomfortable. If the pass rush doesn't pick up, we will eventually hear the wolves start in on Sherman as well. It is already starting to happen.

 

[chris98251]

It was at the end of the game, but the hand off communication could have been lacking as well, we had a new Nickel in and the adjustments real time may have been slower.

 

[Popeyejones]

As a general rule the weakest player on any unit isn't as good as he appears to be.

For instance, Harry Douglas looks better than he is because he's out there with Julio and Roddy, Gerhart looked better than he was because he was sharing carries with ADP, Langford looks better than he is because he's propped up by Quinn, Long, and Brockers, Brooks looked better than he is because he was out there with Aldon, Willis, and Bowman, and so on. You take away Julio and Roddy (a la last year), you take away Peterson (a la this year), you take away Long (a la this year) or you take away Aldon and Bowman (a la this year) and all of a sudden Douglas, Gerhart, Langford, and Brooks start to look a lot less talented.

One way to look at Maxwell is that he's getting "picked on" because the other Hawks' secondary members are so good, but the other way to look at it is that he's looking pretty bad in coverage so far this year even though he's playing in a secondary with some of the best players in the game.

Him getting thrown to a lot doesn't mean he should be getting eaten up a lot, particularly if he's good. This is basically saying, "well, he'd perform poorly less if he was on another team, because he'd have less opportunity to perform poorly because the ball wouldn't be coming his way as much."

My take on Maxwell is basically that over time interceptions are pretty fluky, and he had a string of interceptions that made him look better than he is. He might improve, but so far he looks like he's getting attacked, and successfully attacked pretty consistently. It's only not an issue for the Hawks IMO because the rest of the secondary is so good.

 

[Laloosh]

So in this video, we see the TD. IT was Cover 3, which is easily deciphered by Kam staying back in the middle and the two corners dropping back in coverage. And ET playing intermediate Zone. I would like to point out though, that this specific offensive play is designed to counter Cover 3. We actually would have been far better off going to a cover 4, or Cover 2. But, it is what it is. This was in no way Wrights fault, and Maxwell stuck the man to long. But like I said, this play design is suppose to do exactly what it did.

[youtube]A3KZWinSCwc[/youtube]

Pretty sure we've seen teams run that route against Sherm on the right side and he plays between the guy running the wheel route and the receiver running up the seam almost squarely in the middle (between the two receivers) until the QB commits to one of them then he breaks on the ball.

Can anyone confirm/deny? Looks so familiar.

 

[vin.couve12]

So in this video, we see the TD. IT was Cover 3, which is easily deciphered by Kam staying back in the middle and the two corners dropping back in coverage. And ET playing intermediate Zone. I would like to point out though, that this specific offensive play is designed to counter Cover 3. We actually would have been far better off going to a cover 4, or Cover 2. But, it is what it is. This was in no way Wrights fault, and Maxwell stuck the man to long. But like I said, this play design is suppose to do exactly what it did.

[youtube]A3KZWinSCwc[/youtube]

You're dead on here both in your understanding of cover 3 and in what happened.

This is not to say that I'm with some of the folks who might be doing some head hunting of Max, but this is definitely something he can learn from. Thankfully, it didn't mean a loss. We should see this rectified hopefully. If Max's vision catches what's going on he can release the inside guy and play back outside faster as Sherman often does.

 

[Hawks46]

Guys, the TD was not against man coverage. You would like KJ Wright to carry the coverage deeper, but that is Maxwell's zone, there is zero doubt. He is responsible for the outside deep third. Maxwell HAS to pass the coverage off to the safety who has the deep middle third. Look at Cartire's replay again. The safety is in perfect position. Maxwell just has to pass him off. He has to. To let this slip once is a mistake. To let the same play happen again and make the same mistake again and fail to have zone discipline is inexcusable in that situation. That is a rookie mistake.

Overall, I'm on his bandwagon, although he is playing too much on his heels right now for my likings, but he'll get that swagger back.

Good eye. If you look, the safety is only on top of Maxwell by 5 yards, Seeing as the deepest WR isn't deeper than the Safety, Maxwell looked to be playing the zone slightly too deep. It's just a spacing issue and understanding where your help is.

I'd give Maxwell a B. For pure coverage he's a C, but he plays up on the run and screens very well, and he's great at causing fumbles and getting INTs. He's also one of the better tackling CBs in the league. The knock on Maxwell at first was that he was fast, but had stiff hips. It's hard for him to change direction fluidly. Thing is, he's looking a bit stiff again, IMO.

Last year, Maxwell used the sidelines well in that he played inside leverage and tried to push his guys to he sidelines a lot. He got beat when WRs would move outside then switch inside and he couldn't follow quickly enough. (This is actually a tough route to defend as the WR moves to the inside, he shields the defender from the ball with his body). This year, it seems like WRs are faking inside and going to the out. It seems to me that there's already been more out routes completed on Maxwell than last year.

 

[RiverDog]

I'm just curious to know what you geniuses think of Maxwell. To me, he gets a C+ (an A would equate to being a shut-down corner), as he's had a few lapses and just hasn't made enough plays. In particular, how he let the Denver receiver get so far behind him during their game-tying drive is beyond me. That was just brutal.

On the other hand, he gets picked on quite a lot and has done a fair job of rising to the challenge. He deserves credit for not giving up too many big plays, even if he hasn't made enough of his own (given how often he gets targeted).

So ultimately, I guess he's an above average CB, but I didn't get to watch much of the SD game and I was there in person for our two home games, and it's hard to track everything accurately when I'm buzzed. Am I being unfair? Is he better than I'm giving him credit for or worse?

I think your take is spot on. You also have to consider that we do not flip flop our corners, meaning that other teams can scheme to take advantage of what they view as a weakness or a favorable matchup. IMO Maxwell has held up pretty well when you take everything into consideration.

 

[SomersetHawk]

Calling him a top 10 CB seems a little far fetched,

There aren't very many good corners in this league.

Richard Sherman,
Vontae Davis,
Brandon Browner,
Darelle Revis,
Aqib Talib,
Joe Haden,
Sam Shields,
Patrick Peterson (maybe not as a pure corner but he offers more than that)
Tim Jennings
Alterraun Verner

That's 10 guys that I'd consider better than Byron at this stage (some only marginally), and then cases could be made for other guys like Desmond Trufant, Tramon Williams, Brent Grimes, Keenan Lewis and Tramaine Brock to name a few. Kyle Fuller's only three games in but he looks pretty good, and I expect Dennard to do well but they're difficult to judge at this stage.

Byron would easily be top 5 for best value corners though. It's tough to judge him based on his first three appearances but there seems to be a bit of a drop off. Receivers are getting more separation on him, but as noted it's pretty obvious how much less he's holding onto guys, and he's not giving away anywhere near the penalty's he was last year.

The last drive on Sunday was disappointing, but apart from that his play has been pretty solid and it's easy to forget this is his first season as a starter, there should be more to come.

 

[Cartire]

Calling him a top 10 CB seems a little far fetched,

There aren't very many good corners in this league.

Richard Sherman,
Vontae Davis,
Brandon Browner,
Darelle Revis,
Aqib Talib,
Joe Haden,
Sam Shields,
Patrick Peterson (maybe not as a pure corner but he offers more than that)
Tim Jennings
Alterraun Verner

That's 10 guys that I'd consider better than Byron at this stage (some only marginally), and then cases could be made for other guys like Desmond Trufant, Tramon Williams, Brent Grimes, Keenan Lewis and Tramaine Brock to name a few. Kyle Fuller's only three games in but he looks pretty good, and I expect Dennard to do well but they're difficult to judge at this stage.

Byron would easily be top 5 for best value corners though. It's tough to judge him based on his first three appearances but there seems to be a bit of a drop off. Receivers are getting more separation on him, but as noted it's pretty obvious how much less he's holding onto guys, and he's not giving away anywhere near the penalty's he was last year.

The last drive on Sunday was disappointing, but apart from that his play has been pretty solid and it's easy to forget this is his first season as a starter, there should be more to come.

I think youre allowing Revis's reputation to blind your judgement. Revis has been awful this year. Not top 10 at all. Browner hasnt even played, so its purely speculation with him. Haden has been torched a few times as well. And I mean torched. PP surprisingly has looked better then previous years.

This is coming from a guy who has watched, nearly, every single game this season from every team.

 

[SomersetHawk]

Calling him a top 10 CB seems a little far fetched,

There aren't very many good corners in this league.

Richard Sherman,
Vontae Davis,
Brandon Browner,
Darelle Revis,
Aqib Talib,
Joe Haden,
Sam Shields,
Patrick Peterson (maybe not as a pure corner but he offers more than that)
Tim Jennings
Alterraun Verner

That's 10 guys that I'd consider better than Byron at this stage (some only marginally), and then cases could be made for other guys like Desmond Trufant, Tramon Williams, Brent Grimes, Keenan Lewis and Tramaine Brock to name a few. Kyle Fuller's only three games in but he looks pretty good, and I expect Dennard to do well but they're difficult to judge at this stage.

Byron would easily be top 5 for best value corners though. It's tough to judge him based on his first three appearances but there seems to be a bit of a drop off. Receivers are getting more separation on him, but as noted it's pretty obvious how much less he's holding onto guys, and he's not giving away anywhere near the penalty's he was last year.

The last drive on Sunday was disappointing, but apart from that his play has been pretty solid and it's easy to forget this is his first season as a starter, there should be more to come.

I think youre allowing Revis's reputation to blind your judgement. Revis has been awful this year. Not top 10 at all. Browner hasnt even played, so its purely speculation with him. Haden has been torched a few times as well. And I mean torched. PP surprisingly has looked better then previous years.

This is coming from a guy who has watched, nearly, every single game this season from every team.

Congrats, you're well qualified to have an opinion. I caught a bit of the Patriots game the other day and Revis wasn't very good, but the Patriots pass rush were pretty terrible and didn't log a single sack on Carr. He may continue to play poorly, but I'm not writing him off after three games (and a mixed season for a terrible team last year).

You've got to judge on reputation to a degree otherwise Cortland Finnegan would be a top 10 CB right now and Richard Sherman wouldn't. I don't know what's going on with Haden, but a Top 5 CB doesn't suddenly get that bad.

Admittedly it's hard to judge BB, but you pretty much know what you're going to get with him, especially in our system. I fully expect him to look average for the Patriots, because they don't have the combination of talent on D that we have.

 

[BlueBlood]

Hes been picked on by Rodgers, Rivers and Manning and has a pick and has tackled really well. The OP will say Maxwell has improved after facing some scrubs later this season. Fact is, Maxwell is a very good cornerback how never gives up and is always around the ball. I give him an A+ considering hes target of some of the best QBs in the league.

 

[formido]

So in this video, we see the TD. IT was Cover 3, which is easily deciphered by Kam staying back in the middle and the two corners dropping back in coverage. And ET playing intermediate Zone. I would like to point out though, that this specific offensive play is designed to counter Cover 3. We actually would have been far better off going to a cover 4, or Cover 2. But, it is what it is. This was in no way Wrights fault, and Maxwell stuck the man to long. But like I said, this play design is suppose to do exactly what it did.

[youtube]A3KZWinSCwc[/youtube]

Pretty sure we've seen teams run that route against Sherm on the right side and he plays between the guy running the wheel route and the receiver running up the seam almost squarely in the middle (between the two receivers) until the QB commits to one of them then he breaks on the ball.

Can anyone confirm/deny? Looks so familiar.

Yep, that's how the very best corners play that route combination and you've seen Sherman do it before.

 

[SmokinHawk]

Considering that something like 1 in 8 passes fired against Tricky Dick Sherman are intercepted, Maxwell inherently looks like the safer play if you're trying to pass towards the WRs.

 

[hangumhi]

It wasn't the TD play, but the long pass completion prior to that...it went about 30 yards or so.

The play you're referring to was one of two (you blew it) plays by Maxwell that day. He's supposed to release the receiver to the safety on those plays and he followed the receiver as if he were in man coverage. By doing so it allowed a crossing underneath receiver to be wide open in his zone with nobody home. Maxwell is getting picked on for a reason. It's not a fluke. OC's from other teams recognize that he is not so good zone corner. Man up he does just fine. He's a great open field tackler and can shed blocks well. He can't play zone...yet. Only he and his coach knows why; whether he lacks trust that the safety will be there or whether he just doesn't understand the scheme, he's just lost too much and getting beaten because it takes him a second to think about what to do. Therefore he gives cushion to allow that second to develop so teams are beating him up like crazy on outs and comeback routes. He has the physical ability but in my opinion by watching him play; he's not where he needs to be mentally yet.

Of course keep in mind that we compare everyone to the superstars we have on the team like Richard, Kam, Earl etc. You put Maxwell on any other team and he looks just like 90% of the league's starting corners; frequently out of position and getting picked apart by a pass positive league.

 

[hgwellz12]

I don't have enough time to read all of the above posts so excuse me if it's already been said, but, I attribute at least some of the perceived 'drop off' in his play this year (versus the last few games he started last season - where he absolutely FEASTED) to him trying to adjust to the new rules implemented. I have FULL confidence that this bye will help him tremendously via the film room and coaching staff.