Bills apparently interested in Frank Clark

[Chapow]

If the Bills are willing to part with that #9 pick, and maybe even throw in their 3rd or 4th rounder, I'm in.

The #9 pick is in the area of Montez Sweat, Rashan Gary, and Ed Oliver, and is within striking distance of Nick Bosa, Quinnen Williams, and Josh Allen. We'd also take $17M+ off the books which could be used on the likes of Trey Flowers, who is rated similarly to Clark.

Would do it in a heartbeat.

We need to grow our pass rush this year, not leave it where it is.

Totally agree. We can grow it by adding a top free agent (such as Flowers) AND a high draft pick (such as Sweat) with the return we get by trading Clark. Alternatively we can just keep Clark and leave the pass rush where it is.

Keeping Clark does not = just leaving the pass rush where it is. They can still look to improve that area through the draft and free agency. They've done well in the past getting guys like Chris Clemons, Cliff Avril, and Michael Bennett for very reasonable cost given their production.

First round picks bust all the time for any number of reasons. I'm kind of surprised how many people apparently prefer 2 unknowns in the bush over 1 known in the hand.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This is a complicated situation. Frank Clark has taken the position of "heart and soul of the team" with Russell, but also demands his share and wants Mack-class money. He's obviously elite.

I'm not sure how the locker room will react to the jettison of Clark, but it may be a good idea to look into a trade here. For me, it'd take a high first this year (above pick 15) and at least a high 2nd round pick as well.

An optimal trade partner may be Green Bay. LaFleur is an offensive guy, and might look to give Pettine a tool to work with. Pettine runs a multiple front, but is a 3-4 guy at his core. Frank Clark is listed at 273, and could be a versatile monster in a Pettine scheme as he could line up at any of LEO/3T/5T depending on situation. Green Bay has cap space, too - $47.5m right now, to be exact.

The most important thing here is that Green Bay has 2 first rounders this year (12/30), as a result of the Marcus Davenport trade. Let's spitball here with the value chart.

Pick 12 is at 1200 pts, and pick 30 is 620. 1820 for both.
Pick 21, which Seattle holds, is at 800.

If the trade scenario was Frank Clark + 21 for GB's picks 12 and 30, we'd be valuing Frank Clark as 1020 points total, which is between 15 and 16 overall. That's a little steep for GB, so if need be, Seattle can throw in pick 84 (170 pts.) to even things out.

This bodes well for a youth movement. Really well.

To recap proposal:

SEA gets:
-2019 Round 1, 12 overall (1200)
-2019 Round 1, 30 overall (620)
-Keeps their cap room free (important for future extensions and FA's)

GB gets:
-2019 Round 1, 21 overall (800)
-2019 Round 3, 84 overall (170)
-DE Frank Clark (For an even trade, Frank is valued at 850 pts. now, making him worth pick 20.)

I could see something like this taking place if the NFL views Clark as close, but not quite, at Mack caliber.

IF THEY CAN'T GET THIS TYPE OF RETURN - just re-sign the guy. He plays out his tag after he skips camp, negotiate in good faith, and get the deal done.

 

[knownone]

This is a complicated situation. Frank Clark has taken the position of "heart and soul of the team" with Russell, but also demands his share and wants Mack-class money. He's obviously elite.

I'm not sure how the locker room will react to the jettison of Clark, but it may be a good idea to look into a trade here. For me, it'd take a high first this year (above pick 15) and at least a high 2nd round pick as well.

An optimal trade partner may be Green Bay. LaFleur is an offensive guy, and might look to give Pettine a tool to work with. Pettine runs a multiple front, but is a 3-4 guy at his core. Frank Clark is listed at 273, and could be a versatile monster in a Pettine scheme as he could line up at any of LEO/3T/5T depending on situation. Green Bay has cap space, too - $47.5m right now, to be exact.

The most important thing here is that Green Bay has 2 first rounders this year (12/30), as a result of the Marcus Davenport trade. Let's spitball here with the value chart.

Pick 12 is at 1200 pts, and pick 30 is 620. 1820 for both.
Pick 21, which Seattle holds, is at 800.

If the trade scenario was Frank Clark + 21 for GB's picks 12 and 30, we'd be valuing Frank Clark as 1020 points total, which is between 15 and 16 overall. That's a little steep for GB, so if need be, Seattle can throw in pick 84 (170 pts.) to even things out.

This bodes well for a youth movement. Really well.

To recap proposal:

SEA gets:
-2019 Round 1, 12 overall (1200)
-2019 Round 1, 30 overall (620)
-Keeps their cap room free (important for future extensions and FA's)

GB gets:
-2019 Round 1, 21 overall (800)
-2019 Round 3, 84 overall (170)
-DE Frank Clark (For an even trade, Frank is valued at 850 pts. now, making him worth pick 20.)

I could see something like this taking place if the NFL views Clark as close, but not quite, at Mack caliber.

IF THEY CAN'T GET THIS TYPE OF RETURN - just re-sign the guy. He plays out his tag after he skips camp, negotiate in good faith, and get the deal done.

Nice write up and cool, intriguing idea. If we apply it to the Rich Hill draft value chart, though, you may be undervaluing Frank a little bit! This is largely due to the wonky value of future picks.

I don't have time to do a complete breakdown, but after a quick look at the Khalil Mack trade and your proposed trade to the Packers; Mack would be valued at roughly 320, and you have Clark valued at roughly 230. That's about 70% of Macks value, which would hypothetically put Franks intrinsic contract value just south of the franchise tag. If we assume Frank is 85% of Mack, then Seattle would only need to trade a 1st and 5th along with Clark to get both Packers first round picks.

 

[seabowl]

Funny how Clark mouthed off about Sherman and this was his team now. He's doing the very same thing.
U mad bro?

 

[HawkGA]

I'm not a fan of players sitting out camp when they are tagged. I get they have the option to sign it or not but one needn't look far to see players sitting out, coming back, and then getting injured. If you want to play for your career (which every player should), be smart about it.

 

[AgentDib]

The cost of a player's contract affects how much that contract is worth...

Jared Allen, Khalil Mack, Percy Harvin, etc... all got traded for more than a 1st and signed massive contracts...

Teams aren't perfect. Khalil Mack could be worth his contract and two first round picks but I strongly doubt it. Percy Harvin is obviously an example in my favor, as he wasn't worth his big contract or the first round pick, let alone both.

The Chiefs are reportedly cutting one of their best defensive players because the $15 mil cap hit for a LB outweighed his production and they couldn't find anybody to trade for that contract. If he does become a FA he will have no shortage of suitors because Justin Houston the player has a lot of value left even though the tradeable asset - his contract - did not.

It is of course possible that Frank Clark's contract could be worth more than $17.1 million, as the advantage of the transition tag is to set that fixed limit no matter how much his true value is. I just don't see it personally given how little we have gotten from him (and asked from him) against the run. Ezekiel Ansah is the only comparison in the top 24 paid DL/EDGE last year to Frank's lack of production against the run and he had slightly better numbers with a middle of the pack contract.

Even assuming Frank's contract does have value this year, that will no longer be the case next year due to the escalation of the second franchise tag. I do like the transition tag as a means to work out a long-term deal or potentially trade him for that reason.

 

[AgentDib]

First round picks bust all the time for any number of reasons. I'm kind of surprised how many people apparently prefer 2 unknowns in the bush over 1 known in the hand.

You are right, but the solution to that massive uncertainty is not to be scared of it but rather to embrace it by taking lots of shots. Just look at the impact some of our late round picks last season were having; #120 Dissly, #146 Flowers, #149 Dickson, #168 Jones, #186 Martin and UDFA Ford among others. All were acquired for the equivalent of peanuts on the draft value chart scale. In my view our current roster has room for competition from rookies at every single position other than perhaps QB and PK and so I would trade down liberally.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I'm not convinced that Frank Clark is worth that much money. He was tied for 7th with 5 other guys in sacks. He is a good player, but is a bit of a one trick pony. He isn't good at setting the edge against the run, in fact he was a bit of a liability here. His pass rushing was also a bit hot and cold. There were times that he would dominate, but much of the time he seemed to be invisible. He wasn't a consistent pass rushing threat.

I just don't see him as an irreplaceable player on defense. He isn't that Khalil Mack type of player that can do it all, and he is most likely going to be getting Khalil Mack money. If someone offered a kings ransom for him, I'd be willing to take it.

 

[Yxes1122]

Seattle's problem is Dee Ford.

From what I've seen, the cost to trade for Dee Ford is rumored to be a 2nd round pick. Ford had the same number of sacks and is a former 1st Round Pick. He also out-performed Frank in Pressures, Tackles, TFLs and QB Hits. And he played for the most exciting team in the league last season so he's got an inflated value.

So assuming the Ford reports are true, no one is trading a 1st for Frank Clark when they can have Dee Ford for a second. The next thing is this is a (perceived) pass rusher rich draft and there are limited teams looking for a Pass Rusher.

The Dolphins, Packers, Bills, 49er's and Jets are teams looking to boost their pass rush.

The Dolphins seem to be the front runners for Trey Flowers who is an equal talent based on most rankings. Seattle won't trade within their division so the Niners are out. The Jets were linked to Fowler and Ansah. Fowler got resigned but the Jets have the cap space to go big on Ansah if they want. They also don't have a 2nd Round Pick to send us. Jason La Confora shut down the Bills interest so I think you're really left with the Packers.

So I think the very best scenario is that both the Packers and Niners offer their second and the Chiefs deal Ford to the Niners for #36. Then you can trade Frank and a sixth to the Packers for their 2nd and maybe a fourth/fifth. But that's complicated by GB's limited Cap Space and more affordable options like Justin Houston and Preston Smith on the market.

You also factor in Pete and John's history of valuing their players higher than the league (passing on a first for Sherman and a 2nd for Thomas) and you get a situation that doesn't look promising.

Frank is going to be on this team next year. I'd personally try to push a trade to get rid of the distraction. I think rebuilding the culture is still more important than keeping a player (even if they are hard to replace). But Pete and John don't trade their players often.

 

[A-Dog]

Seattle's problem is Dee Ford.

Well, Ford is a 243lb 3-4 OLB, Clark is a 275lb 4-3 DE. Ford is turning 28 next week, and Clark is 25. My guess is Clark's value is a bit higher.

Also, this Dee Ford value comparison is based on a rumor that the Chiefs are only asking for a 2nd rounder, so I don't think we should take it as a given. Clark won't bring in a Khalil Mack return, but I think he'd bring in more than a 2nd rounder.