Belicheat confirmed...Deflate-gate

[bmorepunk]

First off, do any of you really think that deflated balls had anything to do with Patriots flat out massacre of the Colts? Secondly, haven't any of you ever left your basketball out in the sun and later picked it up and dribbled it, wondering why it seems to have more bounce? The heat expanded the air inside.

I guarantee you if you fill a football with 12 lbs of pressure in the locker room then take it outside in the cold for 30-60 mins and check it again you find that it is less than 12 lbs.

Except it sounds like the Colts' balls, under the same conditions were fine.

So again you really think the balls had a lot to do with the loss? Ok so maybe now each ref should carry a meter with them and check each ball as its put into play. C'mon! The game is already getting ridiculous.

Why don't we go back to what Seanhawk has pointed out and what I mentioned earlier; the temperature differential to drop an NFL regulation football from 12.5 psi to 10.5 psi from room temperature (72 degrees F) would need to be about 80 degrees, which is about -10 degrees F ambient temperature. If the gametime temperature was 40 degrees F, it would have dropped a whole 0.7 degrees.

Not only do we have basic physics on our side, but if the Colts' balls are somehow within specification and the Patriots' balls aren't, that's a good indicator for everyone who can't be bothered to add, multiply, divide, and convert to Kelvin.

Sarrlacc is right, the physics knowledge here is super ridiculous.

The Colts got destroyed and it doesn't seem like it would have mattered with the football pressure. Does that mean that this shouldn't be an issue?

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

First off, do any of you really think that deflated balls had anything to do with Patriots flat out massacre of the Colts? Secondly, haven't any of you ever left your basketball out in the sun and later picked it up and dribbled it, wondering why it seems to have more bounce? The heat expanded the air inside.

I guarantee you if you fill a football with 12 lbs of pressure in the locker room then take it outside in the cold for 30-60 mins and check it again you find that it is less than 12 lbs.

Wouldn't that affect all the balls and not just 11 of the 12 balls used by one team? Colts balls were all regulation. Was the weather different on their sideline?

Ok so how about all of you just answer my question.

Do you really think that the balls had anything to do with the Colts losing 45-7 in the AFC Championship?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You mean like Sherman did, "the broken cup defense"? His piss still was positive and later he had the nerve to talk shit about other Hawk players that got caught as if he never did anything wrong.

Not saying I agree with this guy, but people that live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

I was one of the first ones to condemn Sherman, and Browner, and Irvin, and Thurmond.

But IMO personal player conduct is different than a organizational systemic problem like the Pats. But if we're talking about player conduct then this discussion is over cause your player is sitting in prison for murdering three people, including his pregnant girlfriend.

Ahh, and which 49er would that be?

Surprisingly not a Niner, not sure how Balke let Hernandez slip down the draft board.

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

First off, do any of you really think that deflated balls had anything to do with Patriots flat out massacre of the Colts? Secondly, haven't any of you ever left your basketball out in the sun and later picked it up and dribbled it, wondering why it seems to have more bounce? The heat expanded the air inside.

I guarantee you if you fill a football with 12 lbs of pressure in the locker room then take it outside in the cold for 30-60 mins and check it again you find that it is less than 12 lbs.

Except it sounds like the Colts' balls, under the same conditions were fine.

So again you really think the balls had a lot to do with the loss? Ok so maybe now each ref should carry a meter with them and check each ball as its put into play. C'mon! The game is already getting ridiculous.

Why don't we go back to what Seanhawk has pointed out and what I mentioned earlier; the temperature differential to drop an NFL regulation football from 12.5 psi to 10.5 psi from room temperature (72 degrees F) would need to be about 80 degrees, which is about -10 degrees F ambient temperature. If the gametime temperature was 40 degrees F, it would have dropped a whole 0.7 degrees.

Not only do we have basic physics on our side, but if the Colts' balls are somehow within specification and the Patriots' balls aren't, that's a good indicator for everyone who can't be bothered to add, multiply, divide, and convert to Kelvin.

Sarrlacc is right, the physics knowledge here is super ridiculous.

The Colts got destroyed and it doesn't seem like it would have mattered with the football pressure. Does that mean that this shouldn't be an issue?

Ok so make it an issue, do you as a fan really want to add Refs checking each ball as it is put into play in the rules? I mean with so many screwed up things going on in the NFL these days you want to make this an issue?

 

[homerun1970]

Ok living no they kicked their ass. The point is intent to cheat doesnt matter if they needed to or not. Ok take boxing for example doesnt matter if a guy is faster and easily winning when after the fight it is found out that he removed the padding from his gloves to hit harder.

 

[Phteven]

Ok so make it an issue, do you as a fan really want to add Refs checking each ball as it is put into play in the rules? I mean with so many screwed up things going on in the NFL these days you want to make this an issue?

Would be easier if the Patriots would just stop cheating.

 

[UK_Seahawk]

Until there is evidence someone in the Pats' organization deflated the footballs you can't do anything. There has to be someone who either comes clean and admits to tampering, is caught on video or voice recorded.

It's true the footballs deflated some how. We can rule out the weather. If it's proven the refs didn't touch them ok. But you got to prove someone in the Pats' organization did it. We're all innocent till proven guilty.

In the court of law, yes. This isn't a court of law. They don't need to prove the Pats cheated beyond reasonable doubt, just enough to satisfy the commissioner.

If it really is true the refs checked the ball right before the game, you're going to get hammered by the league for this.

And how do we know the refs were telling the truth? lol Don't be naive.

If you or someone else was a ref and purposely deflated a football and the national media and NFL came after you or them do you think they would come clean and risk fines and possibly imprisonment?

Look, we live in a world where so many people are corrupt, thieves, deceitful.....yes, the Pats, other teams and possibly the refs.

People are going to cover their as%es to save their careers and lives.

And there is more to come I believe.

I think this is the tip of the iceberg. And I have a feeling the NFL does a around the league investigation and find this is wide spread. We'll probably here and see former players and former coaches and former refs come out and talk about manipulating footballs weight and characteristics to gain a competitive edge beyond the rules.

Has marvin jumped bandwagons?

 

[RolandDeschain]

You mean like Sherman did, "the broken cup defense"? His piss still was positive and later he had the nerve to talk shit about other Hawk players that got caught as if he never did anything wrong.

Not saying I agree with this guy, but people that live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

Go read the report by the investigating party about Sherman's appeal so you know what you're talking about, please.

http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-comm ... 645989.PDF

Keep in mind that he and Browner were being tested at the same time in the same room, and Browner WAS guilty and never fought his suspension for it; and the tester got caught LYING to his employer about what transpired.

 

[homerun1970]

Until there is evidence someone in the Pats' organization deflated the footballs you can't do anything. There has to be someone who either comes clean and admits to tampering, is caught on video or voice recorded.

It's true the footballs deflated some how. We can rule out the weather. If it's proven the refs didn't touch them ok. But you got to prove someone in the Pats' organization did it. We're all innocent till proven guilty.

In the court of law, yes. This isn't a court of law. They don't need to prove the Pats cheated beyond reasonable doubt, just enough to satisfy the commissioner.

If it really is true the refs checked the ball right before the game, you're going to get hammered by the league for this.

And how do we know the refs were telling the truth? lol Don't be naive.

If you or someone else was a ref and purposely deflated a football and the national media and NFL came after you or them do you think they would come clean and risk fines and possibly imprisonment?

Look, we live in a world where so many people are corrupt, thieves, deceitful.....yes, the Pats, other teams and possibly the refs.

People are going to cover their as%es to save their careers and lives.

And there is more to come I believe.

I think this is the tip of the iceberg. And I have a feeling the NFL does a around the league investigation and find this is wide spread. We'll probably here and see former players and former coaches and former refs come out and talk about manipulating footballs weight and characteristics to gain a competitive edge beyond the rules.

Has marvin jumped bandwagons?

I checked if they are both on amazing similarities in delusion. :stirthepot:

 

[UK_Seahawk]

First off, do any of you really think that deflated balls had anything to do with Patriots flat out massacre of the Colts? Secondly, haven't any of you ever left your basketball out in the sun and later picked it up and dribbled it, wondering why it seems to have more bounce? The heat expanded the air inside.

I guarantee you if you fill a football with 12 lbs of pressure in the locker room then take it outside in the cold for 30-60 mins and check it again you find that it is less than 12 lbs.

Except it sounds like the Colts' balls, under the same conditions were fine.

So again you really think the balls had a lot to do with the loss? Ok so maybe now each ref should carry a meter with them and check each ball as its put into play. C'mon! The game is already getting ridiculous.

To say this is to miss the point completely. It's very likely the Pats cheated the rules to gain an advantage.

What your suggesting is similar to saying if JJ Watt got caught using PEDS that he shouldnt be punished as he is the best already. It's a stupid fatuous argument.

If they were so good then why did they need to cheat? Also you can't discount what getting off to a fast start did to change Indy's gameplan. There are to many what ifs now and it stinks. Still baffled people are defending this shit.

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

Ok so they might have deflated the balls, my problem is and this is IMO minor. There is not one fan base or team in the entire NFL that can sit there with a straight face and say, we never break any of the rules. People do things all the time to give them the edge until they get caught then comes a rule change. That's just how it works. Please do sit here and act as if the Seahawks are above this.

 

[Chawks1]

First off, do any of you really think that deflated balls had anything to do with Patriots flat out massacre of the Colts? Secondly, haven't any of you ever left your basketball out in the sun and later picked it up and dribbled it, wondering why it seems to have more bounce? The heat expanded the air inside.

I guarantee you if you fill a football with 12 lbs of pressure in the locker room then take it outside in the cold for 30-60 mins and check it again you find that it is less than 12 lbs.

Except it sounds like the Colts' balls, under the same conditions were fine.

So again you really think the balls had a lot to do with the loss? Ok so maybe now each ref should carry a meter with them and check each ball as its put into play. C'mon! The game is already getting ridiculous.

This is priceless.

 

[UK_Seahawk]

Ok so they might have deflated the balls, my problem is and this is IMO minor. There is not one fan base or team in the entire NFL that can sit there with a straight face and say, we never break any of the rules. People do things all the time to give them the edge until they get caught then comes a rule change. That's just how it works. Please do sit here and act as if the Seahawks are above this.

They broke an EXISTING rule and did it in an underhand way. You may see it as minor but so what, at which point does breaking the rules become major?

 

[NFSeahawks]

Ok so they might have deflated the balls, my problem is and this is IMO minor. There is not one fan base or team in the entire NFL that can sit there with a straight face and say, we never break any of the rules. People do things all the time to give them the edge until they get caught then comes a rule change. That's just how it works. Please do sit here and act as if the Seahawks are above this.

They broke an EXISTING rule and did it in an underhand way. You may see it as minor but so what, at which point does breaking the rules become major?

How is it minor, they are CHEATING.

I think this guy is trying to JUSTIFY cheating, amazing really.

 

[bmorepunk]

Okay everybody in the "it was cold" camp, here's some simple calculations you can do at home.

Knowing that the volume of the football is essentially constant, we only need to worry about Gay-Lussac's gas law:

 P1/T1 = P2/T2

The supposed low end NFL approved measurement is 12.5 psi, which is 86,184.47 pascals. The supposed difference in pressure was 2 psi, and 10.5 psi is 72,394.95 pascals. Let's assume that the balls were filled after resting at 72 degrees F and the air inside them is 72 degrees F (295.37 Kelvin) when filled. The resulting temperature to get it down to 10.5 psi is:

P1/T1 = P2/T2
T2 = (T1*P2) / P1 = (295.37 Kelvin * 72,394.95 pascals) /  86,184.47 pascals = 248.11 Kelvin

248.11 Kelvin = -13.07 degrees F

If the temperature on the field were 30 degrees F (272.04 K) and the balls settled at that temperature, the pressure would be:

P2 = (P1*T2) / T1
P2 = (86,184.47 pascals * 272.04 K) / 295.37 K
P2 = 79,377.13 pascals

79,377.13 pascals = 11.51 psi

Can we please stop with this "it was cold!!!" derp?

 

[homerun1970]

Well check out the fact that he can probably tell you w a straight face that everyone was doing what Eddie D did so all 5 rings are totally legit.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Okay everybody in the "it was cold" camp, here's some simple calculations you can do at home.

Knowing that the volume of the football is essentially constant, we only need to worry about Gay-Lussac's gas law:

 P1/T1 = P2/T2

The supposed low end NFL approved measurement is 12.5 psi, which is 86,184.47 pascals. The supposed difference in pressure was 2 psi, and 10.5 psi is 72,394.95 pascals. Let's assume that the balls were filled after resting at 72 degrees F and the air inside them is 72 degrees F (295.37 Kelvin) when filled. The resulting temperature to get it down to 10.5 psi is:

P1/T1 = P2/T2
T2 = (T1*P2) / P1 = (295.37 Kelvin * 72,394.95 pascals) /  86,184.47 pascals = 248.11 Kelvin

248.11 Kelvin = -13.07 degrees F

If the temperature on the field were 30 degrees F (272.04 K) and the balls settled at that temperature, the pressure would be:

P2 = (P1*T2) / T1
P2 = (86,184.47 pascals * 272.04 K) / 295.37 K
P2 = 79,377.13 pascals

79,377.13 pascals = 11.51 psi

Can we please stop with this "it was cold!!!" derp?

As I said around an 80 degree drop give or take a degree.

 

[salamander]

To all those saying it isn't a big deal and they would have won anyway...THEN WHY DO IT? The only reason to do it is because they knew it would give them a competitive advantage. A deflated ball is easier to throw, catch, and hold on to which means fewer turnovers. The great coaches know turnover margin is the most important factor in who wins the game.

Also, why would the PATS do it just for this game against the Colts, a team they always dominate and everyone picked them to beat? Its obvious they've been doing it longer and just got caught now.

 

[bmorepunk]

Okay everybody in the "it was cold" camp, here's some simple calculations you can do at home.

Knowing that the volume of the football is essentially constant, we only need to worry about Gay-Lussac's gas law:

 P1/T1 = P2/T2

The supposed low end NFL approved measurement is 12.5 psi, which is 86,184.47 pascals. The supposed difference in pressure was 2 psi, and 10.5 psi is 72,394.95 pascals. Let's assume that the balls were filled after resting at 72 degrees F and the air inside them is 72 degrees F (295.37 Kelvin) when filled. The resulting temperature to get it down to 10.5 psi is:

P1/T1 = P2/T2
T2 = (T1*P2) / P1 = (295.37 Kelvin * 72,394.95 pascals) /  86,184.47 pascals = 248.11 Kelvin

248.11 Kelvin = -13.07 degrees F

If the temperature on the field were 30 degrees F (272.04 K) and the balls settled at that temperature, the pressure would be:

P2 = (P1*T2) / T1
P2 = (86,184.47 pascals * 272.04 K) / 295.37 K
P2 = 79,377.13 pascals

79,377.13 pascals = 11.51 psi

Can we please stop with this "it was cold!!!" derp?

As I said around an 80 degree drop give or take a degree.

Did you eyeball it? If so you're probably a chemist or physicist.

I'm hoping showing some actual math will stop people from continuing to say that the temperature accounts for that much of a pressure drop. It's about 80 degrees assuming that we're spotting all the conditions in the Patriots' favor (ball was last measured indoors at room temperature, not accounting for compressed air being inherently cold, the balls not actually being at field temperature because they are handled/haven't had time to settle, etc.)

A bunch of people don't know how to science and it's kind of pissing me off.

 

[Lonnie]

New promo for the SB, or the 2015 season:
"I like my balls pumped all the way up to .... 12"
R. Wilson