Bears, Chicago at Loggerheads Over Proposed Stadium

[RiverDog]

This issue is worth it for us Seahawk fans to keep an eye on. There's no way the league will ever allow an iconic franchise like the Bears to move out of the Chicago area as to do so would be analogous to the Yankees moving out of NYC and would be a disaster for the game, so the Bears don't have a lot of options.

But for us here in South Alaska, we don't have that kind of leverage should the Hawks try similar tactics when it comes time for a major overhaul of our current facility, which is approaching a quarter century old. Don't forget, the Kingdome was less than 25 years old when it was imploded.

Chicago Bears told to 'pay for their own damn stadium' after proposal has taxpayers footing $2 billion

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chica ... r-AA1nLbmy

I've always felt that the league and the player's union should start a stadium fund, with both sides contributing a percentage of their player salaries/profits that could be tapped when a team meets a set criterion, one being the size of the market and ability to attract private financing, for a new or improved stadium. There's no way that taxpayers should be footing the bill in a business where both the owners and the players are incredibly rich, and it's the small market teams that are most subject to the extortion tactics that are used by the owners with threats to move the franchise.

 

[chrispy]

This is an interesting topic to me. To get a school built and financed, a metro usually has to pass a bond with a majority or super majority depending on state and local laws. A stadium can be passed with a public vote, but it normally falls well short. The next step is to find government officials that are willing to commit public funds even though the vote failed. A city council or state legislature can budget money without public approval.

A quick search will reveal dozens of situations where a stadium is approved after a failed vote, followed by the public official/s that led the campaign losing their next election, and then being hired by the franchise, stadium corporation, league or some other entity connected to the venture. It's become an operating procedure that can consistently get public funding (against the public's will) while re-distributing huge amounts of money (now billions, stadiums worth 100s of millions are a thing if the past) to leagues and owners and (indirectly and to a lesser amount) players and nearby business owners. A minority of the population agrees to the expense. A very small minority of the population benefits financially. The entire population bears the cost.

Many economic studies have been done to justify the expense and show increased tax revenue pays for the expense. However, post-audits normally show this to be un-true. Stadiums have been financed with 30 year financing but (as noted above) many aren't kept longer than 25. ...or they're renovated at a cost to the public in a similar manner to a new one. The most recent I recall reading was the Packer's renovation. It was originally thought to pay for itself but now it looks not to be the case.

It's a scam.

In Seattle, the process was different for a few reasons. Paul Allen put up a lot of private money and committed future profits to public causes. He was an owner unlike others both because of his mentality but also because of his relative wealth. The Sonics had recently moved. The threat of the Seahawks moving was felt much differently than most cities. Lastly, the stadium has been successfully used for other events (Sounders) that increase revenue. Most NFL stadiums don't have positive cash-flow. In 2021 the stadium and remaining debt from the Kingdome was paid off.

The imminent sale of the Seahawks will probably instigate discussion of stadium renovation or construction. It's important for Seahawks fans to be aware of the exceptions of how Lumen Field was originally financed and how it differs from many other stadium projects.

 

[NoGain]

Mike Florio talks about this topic a lot. He says the days of taxpayers footing the bills for stadiums where they have any choice in the matter are over. KC was a perfect example. They are the most successful franchise winning-wise in the NFL now, and have a dedicated fan base, yet public financing for stadium renovations for Arrowhead were soundly defeated in a vote.

I think there's a general feeling out there in the public that our economic system no longer works for at least half the population. And it's really backed up by the data. We're experiencing both a tremendous transference of wealth from the have-nots to the haves, as well as from young adults to older adults. This is just the backdrop that exists when it comes to things like public financing for new stadiums and stadium renovations.

I'm not sure what the answer is now, other than pay for the stadium yourself in some such manner.

 

[RiverDog]

This is an interesting topic to me. To get a school built and financed, a metro usually has to pass a bond with a majority or super majority depending on state and local laws. A stadium can be passed with a public vote, but it normally falls well short. The next step is to find government officials that are willing to commit public funds even though the vote failed. A city council or state legislature can budget money without public approval.

A quick search will reveal dozens of situations where a stadium is approved after a failed vote, followed by the public official/s that led the campaign losing their next election, and then being hired by the franchise, stadium corporation, league or some other entity connected to the venture. It's become an operating procedure that can consistently get public funding (against the public's will) while re-distributing huge amounts of money (now billions, stadiums worth 100s of millions are a thing if the past) to leagues and owners and (indirectly and to a lesser amount) players and nearby business owners. A minority of the population agrees to the expense. A very small minority of the population benefits financially. The entire population bears the cost.

Many economic studies have been done to justify the expense and show increased tax revenue pays for the expense. However, post-audits normally show this to be un-true. Stadiums have been financed with 30 year financing but (as noted above) many aren't kept longer than 25. ...or they're renovated at a cost to the public in a similar manner to a new one. The most recent I recall reading was the Packer's renovation. It was originally thought to pay for itself but now it looks not to be the case.

It's a scam.

In Seattle, the process was different for a few reasons. Paul Allen put up a lot of private money and committed future profits to public causes. He was an owner unlike others both because of his mentality but also because of his relative wealth. The Sonics had recently moved. The threat of the Seahawks moving was felt much differently than most cities. Lastly, the stadium has been successfully used for other events (Sounders) that increase revenue. Most NFL stadiums don't have positive cash-flow. In 2021 the stadium and remaining debt from the Kingdome was paid off.

The imminent sale of the Seahawks will probably instigate discussion of stadium renovation or construction. It's important for Seahawks fans to be aware of the exceptions of how Lumen Field was originally financed and how it differs from many other stadium projects.

Nice summation.

I do want to bring up how our local venues got built. The first was in the mid 60's when due to the promise that MLB would award Seattle with a franchise, the voters in King County approved what would later become the Kingdome.

In 1995, the Mariners wanted a new stadium and threatened to move if one wasn't approved. It was put to a public vote in the city of Seattle on Sept. 19th of 1995, and failed. However, that was just before the M's went on a magical run that ended just short of the World Series. Had the vote been taken a month later, it almost certainly would have passed. After the season was over, the WA state legislature stepped in and passed a stadium funding bill that although it had been rejected by voters, had a lot of public support.

After Ken Behring attempted to move the Seahawks and was forced to sell the team, Paul Allen said that he would buy the team providing the public help fund a new stadium and insisted on a statewide vote, paying for the vote himself. The measure narrowly passed.

The Sonics had an arena remodel financed by the city of Seattle but a few years later when the team was bought by Clay Bennett, he proposed a grandiose new facility be built in Renton using public money that in my opinion he knew would be rejected then used that rejection to justify his moving the team to OKC.

Anyhow, that's just some background info on how this issue has fared here in our region.

 

[RiverDog]

Mike Florio talks about this topic a lot. He says the days of taxpayers footing the bills for stadiums where they have any choice in the matter are over. KC was a perfect example. They are the most successful franchise winning-wise in the NFL now, and have a dedicated fan base, yet public financing for stadium renovations for Arrowhead were soundly defeated in a vote.

I think there's a general feeling out there in the public that our economic system no longer works for at least half the population. And it's really backed up by the data. We're experiencing both a tremendous transference of wealth from the have-nots to the haves, as well as from young adults to older adults. This is just the backdrop that exists when it comes to things like public financing for new stadiums and stadium renovations.

I'm not sure what the answer is now, other than pay for the stadium yourself in some such manner.

I agree.

I voted for such issues in my younger days, including the one to finance what is now Lumen Field, but not anymore. Even a diehard fan like me can't justify spending several billion dollars on these luxurious facilities while they line their pockets with huge profits and obscene player salaries. It's no different that these Arab kings and sheiks building their own huge private palaces while their populace is starving to death.

But there is an inequity. Los Angeles was able to build their new stadium with 100% private money, but they are in a very large market. Finding private funding in a small market like Kansas City, even with a very successful team on the field, is out of the question.

The league is very much into equity when it comes to the playing field. They need to repeat such a process when the issue is stadium funding.

 

[NoGain]

When you think about it, the Hunt family, who own the Chiefs, are collectively worth about 25 billion dollars. And they're coming to the public looking for handouts for stadium renovations?

 

[Maulbert]

This is an interesting topic to me. To get a school built and financed, a metro usually has to pass a bond with a majority or super majority depending on state and local laws. A stadium can be passed with a public vote, but it normally falls well short. The next step is to find government officials that are willing to commit public funds even though the vote failed. A city council or state legislature can budget money without public approval.

A quick search will reveal dozens of situations where a stadium is approved after a failed vote, followed by the public official/s that led the campaign losing their next election, and then being hired by the franchise, stadium corporation, league or some other entity connected to the venture. It's become an operating procedure that can consistently get public funding (against the public's will) while re-distributing huge amounts of money (now billions, stadiums worth 100s of millions are a thing if the past) to leagues and owners and (indirectly and to a lesser amount) players and nearby business owners. A minority of the population agrees to the expense. A very small minority of the population benefits financially. The entire population bears the cost.

Many economic studies have been done to justify the expense and show increased tax revenue pays for the expense. However, post-audits normally show this to be un-true. Stadiums have been financed with 30 year financing but (as noted above) many aren't kept longer than 25. ...or they're renovated at a cost to the public in a similar manner to a new one. The most recent I recall reading was the Packer's renovation. It was originally thought to pay for itself but now it looks not to be the case.

It's a scam.

In Seattle, the process was different for a few reasons. Paul Allen put up a lot of private money and committed future profits to public causes. He was an owner unlike others both because of his mentality but also because of his relative wealth. The Sonics had recently moved. The threat of the Seahawks moving was felt much differently than most cities. Lastly, the stadium has been successfully used for other events (Sounders) that increase revenue. Most NFL stadiums don't have positive cash-flow. In 2021 the stadium and remaining debt from the Kingdome was paid off.

The imminent sale of the Seahawks will probably instigate discussion of stadium renovation or construction. It's important for Seahawks fans to be aware of the exceptions of how Lumen Field was originally financed and how it differs from many other stadium projects.

The Sonics moved a full decade (2008) after the referendum on what became Lumen Field (1997).