Are We Paper Lions?

[Seymour]

QBs are definitely still avoiding him (except Watson), which I think might be more reputation based at this point.

Cousin's didn't avoid him, Sherman's the reason for their first TD with the PI in the end zone.

I see a version of Sherman that's running on about 60-70% of his 2012 tenacity, rage and competitive edge. Which I get it, he's married with a kid now, has a fat contract. 100% of his focus is no longer on being the best CB and getting paid, which IMO was what all that inner rage was about when he was drafted.

Completely agree. Not everyone can master the art of pretending to be hungry when they have money coming out their ears and a fridge full of caviar.
This is one big reason I think they need to just say NO to several of the core on 3rd contracts (Sherm included). They would have to come in at a far lessor salary and we would need to still focus on replacing them in the draft.

 

[Uncle Si]

And yet Tom Brady still wins Super Bowls.

Hypothetical extrapolations of emotional investment aside, maybe some of the guys are just naturally slowing down? Some people can be "hungry" and still slow down a bit with age.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

And yet Tom Brady still wins Super Bowls.

Hypothetical extrapolations of emotional investment aside, maybe some of the guys are just naturally slowing down? Some people can be "hungry" and still slow down a bit with age.

Do you honestly think Sherman still has the same hunger to play football as he did in his first couple of years?

Of course age has something to do with it, but I certainly don't see the same fire (at least not on the field) as I did with Sherman 4-5 years ago.

As far as Brady goes, the pocket QB position isn't the same. My guess is if Brady played safety he would have had to retire 5-6 years ago. So not entirely a fair comparison to a DB like Sherman. Very hard for skill position players that rely on their speed and quickness to have that sort of longevity.

 

[Uncle Si]

Yes, I do. Thought it was implied in my statement.

It is a fair comparison in terms of "fire". I imagine Brady, Sherman and I bet Kam and ET all prepare as well, if not more, than they did when they were younger. It's their bodies that are slowing, not their passion or desire to win. You choose to look at players not reaching the heights of their peak, physical years as something mental. I don't.

Sure, Brady's position has allowed him to play longer than others. Still doesn't mean he hasn't lost pace, agility and arm strength. The desire is still there. I choose to think it is with our players as well

 

[keatonisballin]

100% yes we are. This team should be 7-1 right now. If this was the 2013 team we would be 8-0. But this team just doesn't have it anymore. Aging players, lack of effort, stupid penalties and bad coaching. This defense is faltering due to a bad DC. The offense is inconsistent and downright pathetic thanks to a terrible OC.

 

[Uncle Si]

Seahawks led the league in penalties per game in 2013-2014. Won the Super Bowl that year. Led it in 2014-15 and went to the Super Bowl.

 

[Seymour]

In other news. The Titanic stayed afloat for 2 hours and 40 minutes after hitting an iceberg.

Unfortunately that lead to a very slow death for over 1500 onboard.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Seahawks led the league in penalties per game in 2013-2014. Won the Super Bowl that year. Led it in 2014-15 and went to the Super Bowl.

So why aren't we 8-1 like that year?

I've heard this one before too, "but hey we led the league in penalties (insert year), and still went to the SB!"

Well, it's obvious isn't it that we no longer have the overwhelming talent disparity over other teams that we had in 2013.........especially on the defensive side of the ball.

So hopefully the players aren't thinking the same thing as you Si, that they still can commit all these penalties, to the tune of being on pace to break records because they can overcome them just like they did in 2013. Cause all you gotta do is go back three days to see having that mindset leads to losses over teams we should have beat by two TD's.

 

[Seymour]

Seahawks led the league in penalties per game in 2013-2014. Won the Super Bowl that year. Led it in 2014-15 and went to the Super Bowl.

So why aren't we 8-1 like that year?

I've heard this one before too, "but hey we led the league in penalties (insert year), and still went to the SB!"

Well, it's obvious isn't it that we no longer have the overwhelming talent disparity over other teams that we had in 2013.........especially on the defensive side of the ball.

So hopefully the players aren't thinking the same thing as you Si, that they still can commit all these penalties, to the tune of being on pace to break records because they can overcome them just like they did in 2013. Cause all you gotta do is go back three days to see having that mindset leads to losses over teams we should have beat by two TD's.

Because we forgot to win on our bye week? :twisted:

Bottom line. Penalties can be overcome with a dominant team, but when the margin is close, they can cause you losses as well. We just saw that happen from a piss poor team (considering injuries here). We aren't piss poor, but we were certainly drug down beneath that level by penalties.

 

[Uncle Si]

Seahawks led the league in penalties per game in 2013-2014. Won the Super Bowl that year. Led it in 2014-15 and went to the Super Bowl.

So why aren't we 8-1 like that year?

I've heard this one before too, "but hey we led the league in penalties (insert year), and still went to the SB!"

Well, it's obvious isn't it that we no longer have the overwhelming talent disparity over other teams that we had in 2013.........especially on the defensive side of the ball.

So hopefully the players aren't thinking the same thing as you Si, that they still can commit all these penalties, to the tune of being on pace to break records because they can overcome them just like they did in 2013. Cause all you gotta do is go back three days to see having that mindset leads to losses over teams we should have beat by two TD's.

Who said that's what I was thinking? Man, you two do just like to assume whatever you want.

The poster above listed "penalties" as a deciding factor of the team's record. I said that this team made it to two Super Bowls while leading the league in penalties, so perhaps the issue lies elsewhere.

I also love how you assume the team had this mindset on Sunday. How would you know what their mindset was?

I digress. I know it's important to be right on a message board, regardless of what someone else was saying. Since you didn't ask and only assumed, I think the team's issues are coaching, and has been for years now. The same, aggressive style of play that served this team so well in its Super Bowl run is no longer feasible with a less athletic team. The coaches have not adjusted.

 

[Seymour]

Seahawks led the league in penalties per game in 2013-2014. Won the Super Bowl that year. Led it in 2014-15 and went to the Super Bowl.

So why aren't we 8-1 like that year?

I've heard this one before too, "but hey we led the league in penalties (insert year), and still went to the SB!"

Well, it's obvious isn't it that we no longer have the overwhelming talent disparity over other teams that we had in 2013.........especially on the defensive side of the ball.

So hopefully the players aren't thinking the same thing as you Si, that they still can commit all these penalties, to the tune of being on pace to break records because they can overcome them just like they did in 2013. Cause all you gotta do is go back three days to see having that mindset leads to losses over teams we should have beat by two TD's.

Who said that's what I was thinking? Man, you two do just like to assume whatever you want.

The poster above listed "penalties" as a deciding factor of the team's record. I said that this team made it to two Super Bowls while leading the league in penalties, so perhaps the issue lies elsewhere.

I also love how you assume the team had this mindset on Sunday. How would you know what their mindset was?

I digress. I know it's important to be right on a message board, regardless of what someone else was saying. Since you didn't ask and only assumed, I think the team's issues are coaching, and has been for years now. The same, aggressive style of play that served this team so well in its Super Bowl run is no longer feasible with a less athletic team. The coaches have not adjusted.

You could also post your actual real thought rather than leave it for guesswork if assumption bothers you.

Also, we all are saying the same thing, this team is not as strong as those teams and cannot overcome that same deficit of penalty yards.

 

[Uncle Si]

I posted my thoughts on the player's desires, age being an issue and penalties. not much guesswork left, but i have now posted my thoughts on coaching.

 

[Seymour]

I posted my thoughts on the player's desires, age being an issue and penalties. not much guesswork left, but i have now posted my thoughts on coaching.

So we are a paper lion then? :mrgreen:

 

[Uncle Si]

I posted my thoughts on the player's desires, age being an issue and penalties. not much guesswork left, but i have now posted my thoughts on coaching.

So we are a paper lion then? :mrgreen:

i'd say we are a very, very good team, that if coached properly by the head coach and the coordinators, we'd be Super Bowl contenders.

The insistence of a coach(es) to continue to do the same things over and over with little to no adjustment in mentality, philosophy, personnel or planning is getting more and more frustrating to watch. It's becoming predictable, where games like the Texans become outliers.

Bringing in high end players through trade demonstrates an aggressive approach to win, but without a change in approach by the coaches to the product on the field, the Hawks will simply repeat the seasons they have had 3 years in a row.

 

[Seymour]

I posted my thoughts on the player's desires, age being an issue and penalties. not much guesswork left, but i have now posted my thoughts on coaching.

So we are a paper lion then? :mrgreen:

i'd say we are a very, very good team, that if coached properly by the head coach and the coordinators, we'd be Super Bowl contenders.

The insistence of a coach(es) to continue to do the same things over and over with little to no adjustment in mentality, philosophy, personnel or planning is getting more and more frustrating to watch. It's becoming predictable, where games like the Texans become outliers.

Bringing in high end players through trade demonstrates an aggressive approach to win, but without a change in approach by the coaches to the product on the field, the Hawks will simply repeat the seasons they have had 3 years in a row.

Dang.... :2thumbs:

Pretty spot on to my views of what holds us back.

Sad it can be so obvious to "outside observers", yet no real obvious action to learn, adjust, and improve from our leaders.

 

[Hawks46]

Sherman at tier 2 is laughable. By any sort of analytic or metric he's one of the top 3 CB's in the league. What's tier 1 for him, 0 completions ?t.

I said in my original post that I based my tiers on the player's prime. Do you think Sherman is as good as he was 3-4 years ago?

Cause I don't. Yes, he's still one of the best corners in the league, but where are the picks, where is the fierce competitor ripping people's heads off, where are the scared to death QB's not even throwing to his side of the field?

None of that, now he's relying on his technique and savvy. Still good, but IMO not where he was 3-4 years ago. Thus me dropping him to tier 2.

Yes, I do think he's as good as he was. Watson threw right at him, and one of the best WR's in the league got some catches. Sherman also got two INT's. Which is what happens when someone finally throws at him.

He's at or near his career best numbers in Passer rating against, completions allowed, yards/ completion and most of the other metrics other than INT's. 4 years ago, QB's didn't avoid him as much, so yes, INT's go down a bit. Peterson's went down, Norman's went down....it's not just Sherman.

Sherman is also the best run defending and tackling CB in the league. And yes, i've seen him lay some big hits on people this year.

All this while he missed today's practice due to a sore Achilles that's been bothering him all year. Yes, I'd say he's on top of his game.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Who said that's what I was thinking? Man, you two do just like to assume whatever you want..

Because you said this..............

Seahawks led the league in penalties per game in 2013-2014. Won the Super Bowl that year. Led it in 2014-15 and went to the Super Bowl.

How am I suppose to know what you're referencing when you just post a one sentence statement without expounding on it.

And I agree with your criticism of the coaches. In fact, if I was to pinpoint one reason for us treading water the past three years, what you just said is #1 with a bullet. Far too much talent on this roster not to be continuing to dominate.

But without open minded coaches, especially Pete that also continue to change and adapt to what suits our personnel I fear we're wasting the prime of our core players.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

After we win, no.

After we lose, yes.

We wouldn't have the whole bipolar, knee-jerk reaction thing going on if we reacted any differently.

 

[chris98251]

Seahawks led the league in penalties per game in 2013-2014. Won the Super Bowl that year. Led it in 2014-15 and went to the Super Bowl.

It's where the penalties come from, aggressive penalties on defense are easier to over come when your really good, un provoked penalties on offense such as false starts, illegal formation, to many men in the huddle, delay of game

 

[seahawkfreak]

Birds!!!!!