Are Pete and John on the Hot Seat?

[Hawker8989]

Had Pete and John not accepted the fact that ever since the ending of SB 49 that our team had been on a steady slide towards mediocrity, I would have been off the bandwagon and barring a deep run into the playoffs at the end of this season, been calling for their heads.

But they did see the light and came to the realization that the current status quo was no longer working and that they had to make some major changes to both their coaching staff as well as their roster if they wanted to get this team back to where we once were. Consequently, in my eyes, that admission and subsequent purging of the team has earned them at least another year or two.

This could be a rough season. We're going to have to hang tough and give these guys a chance for their changes to take hold.

A huge misconception as well has been this idea that this " Rebuild" wouldn't of happened had they won SB 49. That is false. The rebuild was always starring them in the eyes. This was inevitable.

 

[Fade]

Paul Allen would dropkick Pete Carroll into the sun if he went 3-13. It won't happen though.

They are going to have to extend Pete Carroll after this season concludes. 1 yr or 2 yr is the only question.

1 yr if they go 7-9, 8-8. Having him under contract through 2020.

2 yrs if he goes 9-7, 10-6. Having him under contract through 2021.

6-10 or worse and things get dicey. Regardless of how kool-aid drinkers want to feel.

Paul Allen isn't going to sign his franchise QB who is in his prime to $33M+ APY so he can go 6-10- 8-8 for the next 3+ years. If the downward trend continues.

 

[bmorepunk]

Had Pete and John not accepted the fact that ever since the ending of SB 49 that our team had been on a steady slide towards mediocrity

Yeah, two more seasons making the playoffs really set off alarm bells in a coach's head.

And spare me the fallacy about Seattle falling short of some lofty tier of terrifying, Patriots-like domination that a team has to maintain week in and week out before they "deserve" to be considered a real playoff team. We didn't look like that in 2013.

The Patriots haven't just blown through everything like people "remember". They play in the AFC East, they have the greatest coach and quarterback of all time, and they've won two whole Super Bowls in the last 13 seasons.

 

[RiverDog]

Had Pete and John not accepted the fact that ever since the ending of SB 49 that our team had been on a steady slide towards mediocrity, I would have been off the bandwagon and barring a deep run into the playoffs at the end of this season, been calling for their heads.

But they did see the light and came to the realization that the current status quo was no longer working and that they had to make some major changes to both their coaching staff as well as their roster if they wanted to get this team back to where we once were. Consequently, in my eyes, that admission and subsequent purging of the team has earned them at least another year or two.

This could be a rough season. We're going to have to hang tough and give these guys a chance for their changes to take hold.

A huge misconception as well has been this idea that this " Rebuild" wouldn't of happened had they won SB 49. That is false. The rebuild was always starring them in the eyes. This was inevitable.

Technically speaking, all winning SB 49 would have done would have been to slide us one slot lower in the draft.

But the locker room dynamics almost certainly would have been different, and who knows how that would have played out. There would have been no calling for Bevell's head, no controversy over whether or not Beast should have gotten the ball, and so on. Would Richard Sherman have turned into a jerk? Would Michael Bennett been more preoccupied with social justice than playing on the DL? It's impossible to say how our team would have turned out had we been a two time defending Lombardi champ.

 

[MO Hawk]

What do they have to do this season to keep their job? What has to happen for them to lose it?

I'd say 10-6 and the team being headed in the right direction to keep it. 8 losses and a team in disarray as the season progresses may cost both of them their job.

Injuries - To some extent these can't be helped or predicted, however I've read sports medicine articles over the years that correlate injuries to practice, training techniques and treatment. I know all NFL teams face injuries, but I can't say and I don't know where Seattle rates or ranks on the number of injuries during the season and average time out with an injury compared to other NFL teams? The reason I bring this up is it seems like injuries are already affecting us and it's still very early in the season.

Is the preseason a harbinger? To some extent I think it is, but we shall see.

Bottom line on coaches and GM's keeping their jobs? To quote Al Davis, "Just win Baby"!

When I read John Clayton's article today, it just reiterates what I said in August about injures.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/520689/cl ... ery-bears/

This many injuries this early in the season has to fall on Pete. We need to change the way we train to keep injuries down. How long do we lose games due to players being out b/c of injuries before Paul Allen makes changes? We can't win games when our best players are standing on the sidelines.

 

[chris98251]

What do they have to do this season to keep their job? What has to happen for them to lose it?

I'd say 10-6 and the team being headed in the right direction to keep it. 8 losses and a team in disarray as the season progresses may cost both of them their job.

Injuries - To some extent these can't be helped or predicted, however I've read sports medicine articles over the years that correlate injuries to practice, training techniques and treatment. I know all NFL teams face injuries, but I can't say and I don't know where Seattle rates or ranks on the number of injuries during the season and average time out with an injury compared to other NFL teams? The reason I bring this up is it seems like injuries are already affecting us and it's still very early in the season.

Is the preseason a harbinger? To some extent I think it is, but we shall see.

Bottom line on coaches and GM's keeping their jobs? To quote Al Davis, "Just win Baby"!

When I read John Clayton's article today, it just reiterates what I said in August about injures.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/520689/cl ... ery-bears/

This many injuries this early in the season has to fall on Pete. We need to change the way we train to keep injuries down. How long do we lose games due to players being out b/c of injuries before Paul Allen makes changes? We can't win games when our best players are standing on the sidelines.

League wide issue, the no contact and everything makes it harder to condition for football, conditioning is great but football and pushing and straining on a level you use blocking and quick acceleration to get to a hole, tackle, or go after a ball is different. I know they play pillow football to attempt to simulate but it hasn't really worked well.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't think it's so much our record as showing Paul that they're being successful in drafting and acquiring the talent necessary to rebuild another SB roster.

If we go 6-10 and this years draft class stinks up the joint? Then hell yes Pete and John are on the hot seat. But if we go 6-10 or 7-9 and the class shows that Pete and John are headed in the right directing in restocking the team full of young hungry talented players? Guys like Penny, Griffin, Green, Dissly, Flowers etc pop and 2nd year players like Griffin, Carson, etc take the next step towards elite players?

Then I think they're safe.

 

[Jville]

Last I heard and read, Paul and Pete and John are on the same page with a mutual Seahawk commitment and agenda.

 

[mrt144]

One non double digit win total because of a kicker and there on the hot seat.

I will say that hiring the guy who totally borked it against them was not...something that instills confidence in me.

 

[ZagHawk]

Hot seat no, but they’re definitely not on the iron throne either. The direction this team appears to be facing in the next season or two will dertermine things. Finish this season and next season with only four wins, of course. Finish this season with 6-8 wins and next season with 8-11 wins looking solid then things are rebuilding as planned and there’s no reason to fire anyone.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

One non double digit win total because of a kicker and there on the hot seat.

I will say that hiring the guy who totally borked it against them was not...something that instills confidence in me.

Also, a kicker that THEY chose to sign to save cap space over giving an extension to one of the most dependable kickers in the league in Hauschka.

So sorry, the fact that the kicker they hired sucked and lost 2-3 games for us because they mismanaged the cap by giving extensions to other players who didn't perform up to those contracts doesn't absolve Pete or John.........in fact that's a indictment that they made the wrong decision.

 

[mrt144]

One non double digit win total because of a kicker and there on the hot seat.

I will say that hiring the guy who totally borked it against them was not...something that instills confidence in me.

Also, a kicker that THEY chose to sign to save cap space over giving an extension to one of the most dependable kickers in the league in Hauschka.

So sorry, the fact that the kicker they hired sucked and lost 2-3 games for us because they mismanaged the cap by giving extensions to other players who didn't perform up to those contracts doesn't absolve Pete or John.........in fact that's a indictment that they made the wrong decision.

As with many things, its not just one decision in isolation, its compounded decisions in trying to rectify previous ineffectual decisions that sinks ya.

 

[jammerhawk]

To answer the question posed by the thread: I absolutely doubt it.

Their seats will start to warm up if the team falls apart this season. All in all though I think they aren't doing a bad job at all. That said they have had OLine and RB problems and have made some dumb personnel decisions by trade and in the draft over the years since XLIX and prior to that.

Trading down over and over again in the draft doesn't always give great results. Trading for Harvin and for Graham has proven costly and they have not had much luck with any of their OLine moves at all.

 

[Jville]

That Pete Carroll is a trend setter for sure.

First his defense that they said would never work at the NFL level.

Then all those rugby style how to hit and tackle videos.

And now this .................................. [tweet]https://twitter.com/JourdanRodrigue/status/1041723681788051458[/tweet]
............ Pete Carroll's influence continues to grow and prosper. He's coaching up the entire league.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

One non double digit win total because of a kicker and there on the hot seat.

I will say that hiring the guy who totally borked it against them was not...something that instills confidence in me.

Also, a kicker that THEY chose to sign to save cap space over giving an extension to one of the most dependable kickers in the league in Hauschka.

So sorry, the fact that the kicker they hired sucked and lost 2-3 games for us because they mismanaged the cap by giving extensions to other players who didn't perform up to those contracts doesn't absolve Pete or John.........in fact that's a indictment that they made the wrong decision.

As with many things, its not just one decision in isolation, its compounded decisions in trying to rectify previous ineffectual decisions that sinks ya.

Yep, and that's where I'm at with Pete and John........they have to show me that they can get back to the mining talent hit rate of their first couple of years (or close), and not the hit rate of the past 3-4 years.

This includes the draft, trades and free agent signings. Cause right now, it's pretty bad over the past 3-4 years.

I assume this is what Paul Allen wants to see as well, was this a one time run, or can Pete and John recreate the magic in finding talent to put together a SB roster again.

 

[hawksincebirth]

Seat will be warmer if we lose tonight

 

[Spin Doctor]

On the surface Pete Carroll doesn't look bad enough to warrant even talking about this. Even our "losing season" was 9-7. That being said, I do think there is some merit to the "his seat is starting to feel just a little bit toasty" narrative.

We've been seeing a troubling trend of poor management since 2014, and I'm not even talking about "the play". Our drafts no longer had the magic that they had during the early years of Pete Carroll. We have not had a good draft since 2012. We've been throwing away our first round picks on guys such as Harvin and Graham who were either head cases or didn't fit the scheme. We drafted McDowell despite obvious warning signs such as "the worst combine interview ever" and numerous red flags regarding his character in college (lot of it football related). We've traded other high draft picks for one year rentals like Sheldon Richardson as well.

We've thrown away draft picks, signed players that shouldn't have been signed in free agency and there were also signs that Carroll lost a good portion of the locker room in 2015. One of these mistakes are not bad in isolation. Its when they start compounding that teams start fading into obscurity. I'm sure Paul Allen is paying careful attention to all of the above. Ultimately I do not think Pete is going to be outright fired by Paul Allen. I think he is going to bide his time and wait until he is up for an extension. If the Seahawks have not shown any improvement, or shown some upward trend I think he is just going to not be extended, that is unless his team has a Jim Mora Jr. level of melt down.

 

[hawksincebirth]

On the surface Pete Carroll doesn't look bad enough to warrant even talking about this. Even our "losing season" was 9-7. That being said, I do think there is some merit to the "his seat is starting to feel just a little bit toasty" narrative.

We've been seeing a troubling trend of poor management since 2014, and I'm not even talking about "the play". Our drafts no longer had the magic that they had during the early years of Pete Carroll. We have not had a good draft since 2012. We've been throwing away our first round picks on guys such as Harvin and Graham who were either head cases or didn't fit the scheme. We drafted McDowell despite obvious warning signs such as "the worst combine interview ever" and numerous red flags regarding his character in college (lot of it football related). We've traded other high draft picks for one year rentals like Sheldon Richardson as well.

We've thrown away draft picks, signed players that shouldn't have been signed in free agency and there were also signs that Carroll lost a good portion of the locker room in 2015. One of these mistakes are not bad in isolation. Its when they start compounding that teams start fading into obscurity. I'm sure Paul Allen is paying careful attention to all of the above. Ultimately I do not think Pete is going to be outright fired by Paul Allen. I think he is going to bide his time and wait until he is up for an extension. If the Seahawks have not shown any improvement, or shown some upward trend I think he is just going to not be extended, that is unless his team has a Jim Mora Jr. level of melt down.

:ditto: x1000 great post

 

[mrblitz]

how come bill belichik never has to rebuild, but 31 other teams expect these 2-3 year rebuilding periods, every five years or whatever? pete needs to up his Xs and Os game...

 

[Sgt. Largent]

how come bill belichik never has to rebuild, but 31 other teams expect these 2-3 year rebuilding periods, every five years or whatever? pete needs to up his Xs and Os game...

Because he's like the Terminator, he doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear...........and he won't stop until we're all dead inside.

I joke, but it's true. Belichick is cold and heartless, he has no loyalty or emotion about any player on his roster. Which is why he consistently trades away his best players in their prime (other than Brady) and reloads. Because he knows his system and Brady is what wins them games.

Pete was too loyal, and it burned him trying to keep this team together 2-3 years too long. Think of all the high picks we could have got for guys like Sherman, Kam, Bennett, Avril, Marshawn, etc if we would have traded them before they broke down.

That in a nutshell is the Patriots, and why they stay on top while the rest of the league struggles to stay there when successful, including us.