A thought about " Culture "

[GeekHawk]

I will speak about 'culture' from recent experience... Starting out with, I was raised in the 60s/70s in lower-working-class circumstances and all that entailed. Poverty, hard work, little to no reward, little to no chance of college (and getting out of that environment), etc. No regard whatsoever for 'culture' except the culture of 'suck it up, buttercup' and 'nobody gives a shit about your widdle feelings'.

I was sent from Puget Sound Naval Shipyard last fall to Norfolk Naval Shipyard in VA for 4 months starting in the middle of last August. When I got there, I was immediately struck by the toxic work environment and the sheer amount of errors being made by everyone there - engineers, shop workers, quality inspectors, project supervisors, the whole gang. It's no wonder all their projects are over budget, behind schedule, and often needing rework after the ship goes back to sea. Huge, unsustainable personnel turnover with people talking openly about wanting out and what jobs they were applying for elsewhere. Everyone aspiring to just barely make the minimum requirements of whatever they're doing. And, I was struck by the negative culture of the place. I guarantee most everyone goes home after work and drinks too much just to numb themselves after the day. What was kinda telling was how many people, both engineers like me and shop workers, who had ever temporarily been assigned to Puget wished their work place was like ours.

I tried to work there the same way I work here, and to treat the shop workers like we do instead of like they do, and I spent a great deal of my time just talking about how I thought they could get 'more like us'. You know, just being an example. (As I like to say, if your life can't be a shining example at least let it be a terrible warning. In this case I was trying for the former...) Before I left I was hit up by managers and department heads about my experience there, and I talked frankly (and without regard to the politics of the place) about their culture and what I call 'lack of ownership' of the equipment and processes.

Believe me, culture can make a huge difference to the product of your work. I don't see why it would be any less true for a football team than it is for a ship maintenance facility.

 

[Jac]

OP was being facetious and some posters are being intentionally (or not) simple-minded in response. Only one poster (KinesProf) has even attempted to articulate what Carroll's culture even is. Culture--whether business or sports--is inclusive of multiple dynamics missing from this team's ability to be a SB contender again. Do we have a culture of innovation? No. Do we have a culture of accountability? Lots of evidence to the contrary. Do we have a culture of adaptability? Not with the "teams response to us, we don't respond to them" mantra. Do we have a culture of pride? I'm not sure what we've seen out of this defense on that front in quite a while. Do we have a culture of value hunting? This team has pissed away more high draft capital in trades than pretty much anybody. Do we have a culture of results? We've been a mediocre/.500'ish team for a while that's won a wildcard game in 2016, 2017, and 2020 since they threw away the SB. There is so much that goes into a winning culture. I mean I wonder how the Lions, 49ers, Ravens, and Chiefs are managing this weekend without Carroll's secret flavor of culture sauce.

 

[pmedic920]

I won’t suggest that Pete is the only coach that does stuff like this, but I’d bet that the majority don’t.

Is this an example of the “culture” @SeattleSeahawks?

A: it absolutely is and I’ve never heard a player or staff member talk negatively about it. Have any of you?

Fact is, it’s the exact opposite. Every player or staff member I’ve heard speak on it speak highly of it.

Frankly I don’t understand how anyone can poo poo on it.

 

[jammerhawk]

The 'always compete concept' and the Pete player behaviour rules are a solid basis for a team to grow stronger with.

Every team has a culture and the teams who have a consistent and positive culture are usually stronger.

I can't understand the reasons why anyone would want to ditch this and replace it it with some top down system or simply discard it.

There will be change happening and the new HC will bring their staff and ideas to the mix and with luck the good that has been created in Seattle of a consistently competitive team will grow from that already competitive base.

I know the Pete Hate is strong in many here but he still brought a lot of good things to the team. It was time to change and that will happen but throwing everything out is not always a good way to proceed.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

One thing about the culture that had me worried when we moved away from Pete....was that going to make it hard to get guys here in free agency? How much of it was players wanting to play for Pete based on what they had heard? This could just be me rationalizing how that won't be an issue but then I also thought, that culture wasn't enough to keep some guys here vs leaving to "secure the bag" and get a bigger contract. Guys like Frank Clark, DJ Reed etc.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I won’t suggest that Pete is the only coach that does stuff like this, but I’d bet that the majority don’t.

Is this an example of the “culture” @SeattleSeahawks?

A: it absolutely is and I’ve never heard a player or staff member talk negatively about it. Have any of you?

Fact is, it’s the exact opposite. Every player or staff member I’ve heard speak on it speak highly of it.

Frankly I don’t understand how anyone can poo poo on it.

The Packers brought him in this year too. Last year they did a segment on NFL Countdown when he came to Seattle and this year they did the Green Bay one. My reaction this year was (meh, it's been done) ha ha.

 

[Mick063]

OP was being facetious and some posters are being intentionally (or not) simple-minded in response. Only one poster (KinesProf) has even attempted to articulate what Carroll's culture even is. Culture--whether business or sports--is inclusive of multiple dynamics missing from this team's ability to be a SB contender again. Do we have a culture of innovation? No. Do we have a culture of accountability? Lots of evidence to the contrary. Do we have a culture of adaptability? Not with the "teams response to us, we don't respond to them" mantra. Do we have a culture of pride? I'm not sure what we've seen out of this defense on that front in quite a while. Do we have a culture of value hunting? This team has pissed away more high draft capital in trades than pretty much anybody. Do we have a culture of results? We've been a mediocre/.500'ish team for a while that's won a wildcard game in 2016, 2017, and 2020 since they threw away the SB. There is so much that goes into a winning culture. I mean I wonder how the Lions, 49ers, Ravens, and Chiefs are managing this weekend without Carroll's secret flavor of culture sauce.

This might be the single most ridiculous post I have ever read on these forums. You have no unique knowledge about any of the arguments that you present. All you have is self-centered perception from a distance. At least Jody Allen has been inside the building. Perhaps that is why she is so much more qualified to impose her culture edict than you are.

You got your wish. Pete is gone. Now you just sound like a whiney adolescent that can't graciously accept that your wish has finally come true without incessantly perpetuating your self-perceived victimhood of Pete Carroll cruelly trampling upon your righteous fandom. The entitlement is cringeworthy.

 

[chris98251]

Petes culture was about making sure the players and basically everyone's head was right and taking care of that as well as their bodies, he also let them be individuals and went out of his way to make sure that they got mentorship and good introduction into the NFL as new players or the area as F.A.'s, he had the always compete mentality and all in initially, they said that continually but after Wilson arrived players noticed a difference in how he was treated and the erosion began, after the Super Bowl loss and Bevell throwing players under the bus, Cable and his antics, the players lost faith in what was said versus based on actual actions. That is how we went from a possible Dynasty to a team that wasted opportunity. He could not rebuild it once that trust was broken with the Veterans and many were traded, Wilson was like a Zit growing bigger and festering till he actually made the team choose him or Pete. That was the initial culture and what and how it dissolved a bit at a time.

I think John wants to restart what worked and keep the good.

 

[Ozzy]

I won’t suggest that Pete is the only coach that does stuff like this, but I’d bet that the majority don’t.

Is this an example of the “culture” @SeattleSeahawks?

A: it absolutely is and I’ve never heard a player or staff member talk negatively about it. Have any of you?

Fact is, it’s the exact opposite. Every player or staff member I’ve heard speak on it speak highly of it.

Frankly I don’t understand how anyone can poo poo on it.

I don' think anyone is though. I think what people are pushing back against is the idea that this type of culture is an impossibility now that Carrol is gone and if we want it we better go get a Carroll coach because of that. I think we live in a Seahawks bubble and once you start looking outside of that there are multiple other teams with the same reputation about them. There are some teams that don't have it too and that's easy to find as well.

I'm glad John is making it a priority for the next head coach because its critical in my opinion for a successful franchise, but I would suggest that multiple of the candidates listed I have zero doubt would have a similar environment based on their reputation and respect from players around the league. Evero, Vrabel, Quinn, Morris would all do really well in this regard imo.

 

[Jac]

This might be the single most ridiculous post I have ever read on these forums. You have no unique knowledge about any of the arguments that you present. All you have is self-centered perception from a distance. At least Jody Allen has been inside the building. Perhaps that is why she is so much more qualified to impose her culture edict than you are.

You got your wish. Pete is gone. Now you just sound like a whiney adolescent that can't graciously accept that your wish has finally come true without incessantly perpetuating your self-perceived victimhood of Pete Carroll cruelly trampling upon your fandom. The entitlement is cringeworthy.

And you haven't defined the Seahawks culture. Schneider could go to Allen and say this is who I want and this is going to be the culture they'll bring. You have no idea what's going on beyond a blurb you read.

 

[pittpnthrs]

- Culture is not hocus pocus. It is a long term commitment to environment and treatment of employees. Why do so many guys speak so highly of Pete, even though he traded some of them, let some of them walk, probably had contentious negotiations with many of them. Because that is the busy side of it. But if your "culture" is strong enough, players know they will be respected and treated fairly on a day to day basis. If you have never coached or managed people it is hard to explain.
- I coached youth sports for years and I manage work crews now. Some of my guys have hard, dirty jobs. The pay is average, and yet our turnover is minimal. Why? Because they trust us as leaders. The job needs to be done but they know we will try to be as fair, and equitable as we can, and allow them to be people and not robots.
- Whether star football player or ditch digger, people want to know that those above them, have a core belief in their value as employees, and will work to create the best environment for both.

Mase

I understand what your saying and whole heartedly agree that constructive criticism goes a long way, but the team lacked discipline. I compare it to something like a military squad. Do you think the drill sergeant cares about their feelings? His job is to get results and in doing so the cohesiveness comes naturally. Pete built a culture among a team of HOF talent that would have succeeded anywhere. Once that talent was gone, the culture didn't quite have the same impact. I'll take discipline and results over friendships and bread breaking at this point.

 

[pittpnthrs]

2023 culture does not equal 2013 culture. Loyalty over Performance is what it morphed into Instead of always competing.

Exactly

 

[renofox]

I would just like to focus on the objective, observable facts instead of the subjective, ethereal musings we have about PC and Seahawks culture.

I have a few questions for those who believe PC was a great influencer of Seahawks culture. I'll give my answers and invite your counter argument.

1. I have often heard that players place the Seahawks at or near the top of their preferred employment choices. In the past ten years, how many blue-chip or top-tier Free Agents have come to the Seahawks? How many mid-tier FAs have signed at below-market compensation? How many replacement-level players have the Seahawks overpaid for? How many Seahawks FAs have re-signed here and given a 'hometown discount'? (The Seahawks have been unable to sign any top FAs. They have not brought in any above average players at a reasonable price. They have consistently overpaid for underperforming players. They have consistently overpaid their own FAs.)

2. Have the Seahawks found the correct balance between an individual-focused and a team-focused culture in terms of accountability and discipline? (I can't believe this is even a question. This is not a team culture we are seeing. The Seahawks are a collection of individuals that take the field and play as 11 guys instead of 1 team. There is no communication, no accountability, and no discipline. 'YOU BE YOU' has been taken to the extreme and the entire concept of TEAM (singular) has been pushed aside.)

2a. Does PC rely on the locker room to provide accountability, and what is his plan for when it is not working? (On his podcast, KJ has mentioned several times that whenever there was an issue with a player PC would go to one of his locker room leaders and ask him to confront the problem child and resolve it. Whenever the media asks PC a question he doesn't like he becomes a passive-aggressive snark master. When PC is let go, he throws shade at the lesser 'non-football' mere mortals who shouldn't be deciding his tenure. He oozes sarcasm when discussing JS's new responsibilities with "You asked for it. Good Luck!" PC is not good with confrontation. PC has lots of interpersonal skills. Constructive confrontation is not one of them, IMO. Sometimes peer accountability fails and top-down confrontation is required. PC has no effective strategy when this is the case.)

2b. Do you consider the Seahawks to be a disciplined team? (See 2a. The Seahawks have become one of the most undisciplined teams in the NFL. Penalties and missed assignments are the norm. Lack of effort has become common. Flat and lifeless is the product we now expect to see for most games.)

3. How many players do you see that unmistakably "leave it all on the field" or "give 100% on every play"? (DK. Spoon. Bobby. Charbs. ??? 2/11 on Defense and 2/11 on Offense isn't a good sign that the Seahawks players are motivated to play to their potential.)

4. What great coaching hires has PC made? How many of our coaches have been poached by other teams? (I have pages I could write here. I'll just stick with NONE.)

I have plenty to say about 'Seahawks Culture' but I'll just say it Ain't All That.

 

[HawkFreak]

I won’t suggest that Pete is the only coach that does stuff like this, but I’d bet that the majority don’t.

Is this an example of the “culture” @SeattleSeahawks?

A: it absolutely is and I’ve never heard a player or staff member talk negatively about it. Have any of you?

Fact is, it’s the exact opposite. Every player or staff member I’ve heard speak on it speak highly of it.

Frankly I don’t understand how anyone can poo poo on it.

I agree that there is a place for this kind of culture and team building and fun.
The question is was there too much of this that bled into times of serious "there's work to be done and responsibility to be taken" times of planning and practicing.
There can and should be a difference.

 

[Mick063]

And you haven't defined the Seahawks culture. Schneider could go to Allen and say this is who I want and this is going to be the culture they'll bring. You have no idea what's going on beyond a blurb you read.

You have already defined the culture for us. Remember? Why would you, of all people, need a primer?

 

[Ozzy]

One thing about the culture that had me worried when we moved away from Pete....was that going to make it hard to get guys here in free agency? How much of it was players wanting to play for Pete based on what they had heard? This could just be me rationalizing how that won't be an issue but then I also thought, that culture wasn't enough to keep some guys here vs leaving to "secure the bag" and get a bigger contract. Guys like Frank Clark, DJ Reed etc.

We weren't getting more FA's than anyone else though with it in place.

 

[jammerhawk]

If you have ever been on a team you know that the team normally likes to hang together and have fun together. Every single thing that can be done to strengthen those team bonds and that Band of Brothers thinking makes the team a better team. In that there are reasons why any member of the team will lay it on the line for the others. Besides that it makes it more fun to come to work and more likely the players will work harder.

 

[Jac]

You have already defined the culture for us. Remember? Why would you, of all people, need a primer?

But "Always Compete", amirite? It's going to be hard to find another professional HC that believes in that.

 

[xray]

Most pro players , especially the vets ; know that they are merely rented bodies for use in a sports business . Most , if not all players in the NFL , want just two things...a championship ring and lots and lots of money . They know , that at any minute they can be kicked to the curb like a dog or traded on the open market like a side of beef . I don't think most of them give two shits about what culture a team has . " Show Me The Money "

 

[Ozzy]

I would just like to focus on the objective, observable facts instead of the subjective, ethereal musings we have about PC and Seahawks culture.

I have a few questions for those who believe PC was a great influencer of Seahawks culture. I'll give my answers and invite your counter argument.

1. I have often heard that players place the Seahawks at or near the top of their preferred employment choices. In the past ten years, how many blue-chip or top-tier Free Agents have come to the Seahawks? How many mid-tier FAs have signed at below-market compensation? How many replacement-level players have the Seahawks overpaid for? How many Seahawks FAs have re-signed here and given a 'hometown discount'? (The Seahawks have been unable to sign any top FAs. They have not brought in any above average players at a reasonable price. They have consistently overpaid for underperforming players. They have consistently overpaid their own FAs.)

2. Have the Seahawks found the correct balance between an individual-focused and a team-focused culture in terms of accountability and discipline? (I can't believe this is even a question. This is not a team culture we are seeing. The Seahawks are a collection of individuals that take the field and play as 11 guys instead of 1 team. There is no communication, no accountability, and no discipline. 'YOU BE YOU' has been taken to the extreme and the entire concept of TEAM (singular) has been pushed aside.)

2a. Does PC rely on the locker room to provide accountability, and what is his plan for when it is not working? (On his podcast, KJ has mentioned several times that whenever there was an issue with a player PC would go to one of his locker room leaders and ask him to confront the problem child and resolve it. Whenever the media asks PC a question he doesn't like he becomes a passive-aggressive snark master. When PC is let go, he throws shade at the lesser 'non-football' mere mortals who shouldn't be deciding his tenure. He oozes sarcasm when discussing JS's new responsibilities with "You asked for it. Good Luck!" PC is not good with confrontation. PC has lots of interpersonal skills. Constructive confrontation is not one of them, IMO. Sometimes peer accountability fails and top-down confrontation is required. PC has no effective strategy when this is the case.)

2b. Do you consider the Seahawks to be a disciplined team? (See 2a. The Seahawks have become one of the most undisciplined teams in the NFL. Penalties and missed assignments are the norm. Lack of effort has become common. Flat and lifeless is the product we now expect to see for most games.)

3. How many players do you see that unmistakably "leave it all on the field" or "give 100% on every play"? (DK. Spoon. Bobby. Charbs. ??? 2/11 on Defense and 2/11 on Offense isn't a good sign that the Seahawks players are motivated to play to their potential.)

4. What great coaching hires has PC made? How many of our coaches have been poached by other teams? (I have pages I could write here. I'll just stick with NONE.)

I have plenty to say about 'Seahawks Culture' but I'll just say it Ain't All That.

1. Seattle has never gotten an advantage in Free Agency. If anything we seem to get less interest than other spots although some of that might be because of location. When we have signed guys we have needed to pay above market value more often than not because of it like you stated.

2. I think the last couple of seasons this is a fair critique. We don't seem to be a team that plays as a team or a cohesive group, especially on defense. In regards to your comments on Pete during his presser I actually agree. It came across as snarky and bitter. I sort of get it but wasn't thrilled to see it because it does go against what he's preached the past 15 years.

2A. I don't vew them as disciplined unit. They are routinely near the top in penalties, DK laughed at the penalty board Pete said he uses to hold people accountable and its just an area that has never been really addressed. I think some of this is by design because Pete liked his teams playing on the edge and I'm ok with that. Seattle seems to have a lot of pre-snap stuff though too.

3. It's really hard to say? Don't feel comfortable answering but its a fair question.

4. It is odd if he's considered the ultimate culture/team builder that the rest of the league doesn't seem interested in adopting it. The league is a copycat league and most successful teams lose guys all the time.