A taste of what to expect this season...Lock 2021 highlights

[toffee]

I AM NOT AN EXPERT, but NEITHER ARE YOU.

Bingo!!!

 

[RedAlice]

Looking at the AFCW and the NFCW, whichever QB you all play - easier gauntlet?

I mean for Wilson w Denver v your guy.

 

[Natethegreat]

Well we had a Matt Flyn would have won us more super bowls thread and now we got posters thinking Lock is going to be a passable QB here. Ridiculous takes abound around this place now. Lock won't even start for this team(Pete will not allow a QB to turn the ball over). Geno will start, and that says it all right there.

 

[fullquartpress]

Looking at the AFCW and the NFCW, whichever QB you all play - easier gauntlet?

I mean for Wilson w Denver v your guy.

For me, no doubt: Herbert, Mahomes, Carr over Stafford, Murray, and Lance.

 

[toffee]

Well we had a Matt Flyn would have won us more super bowls thread and now we got posters thinking Lock is going to be a passable QB here. Ridiculous takes abound around this place now. Lock won't even start for this team(Pete will not allow a QB to turn the ball over). Geno will start, and that says it all right there.

Some judged a franchise QB whose career started with a season of 1 Td/11 INT as a total bust that will never be a passable QB.

 

[RedAlice]

For me, no doubt: Herbert, Mahomes, Carr over Stafford, Murray, and Lance.

agree.

 

[Jac]

The point of all of this and wmhBonney's post, is that Allen hadn't proven a thing 4 years ago either. He flat sucked his first year. I even remember J Ramsey calling him out on National TV, saying so and that he'd never be good. And Allen was only 'ok' the following year.

Again, the point is that Allen improved upon poor mechanics, happy feet relying on his athleticism and raw talent, entirely because he had a coaching staff that worked with him year over year, believed in him, got him weapons, and...hello. ding ding ding... got the guy a defense that could keep the team in games.

The only thing being put forward is that like Allen, Lock COULD ALSO go from struggling to acceptable, and then from acceptable to whatever the guys ceiling will be with a solid cast around him and good leadership. Nobody is saying he will be Allen. Only saying that like Allen, he isn't necessarily who he has shown to be to date.

I remember Charlie Weis on his NFL Network radio show asking how often a QB with low accuracy issues turns it around in the NFL in reference to Allen. I look at it as a win-win. If Lock shows promise (whatever that low probability is), it's a win. If he doesn't, we'll have the draft position and capital next year to properly address it (in the same way that most teams currently rolling out franchise QB's did). As I look forward, I just think that's a better spot from a franchise building standpoint than being saddled with an aging $50M QB.

 

[Ruminator]

My take on the 2022 season is similar: for the first time in a while, I really don't care what the W/L record ends up being. If Lock is the second coming of Allen and we win enough games to make some noise in the playoffs, then great. If not, then yipee! A chance to snag a top-rated QB during the first round of the 2023 draft!

The current team is newly intriguing thanks to various younger players, new coaches, and new schemes, yet the W/L record pretty much hinges on how well our QB performs and how well our revamped OL holds up and does their job.

 

[keasley45]

My take on the 2022 season is similar: for the first time in a while, I really don't care what the W/L record ends up being. If Lock is the second coming of Allen and we win enough games to make some noise in the playoffs, then great. If not, then yipee! A chance to snag a top-rated QB during the first round of the 2023 draft!

The current team is newly intriguing thanks to various younger players, new coaches, and new schemes, yet the W/L record pretty much hinges on how well our QB performs and how well our revamped OL holds up and does their job.

Bingo

 

[Spin Doctor]

The point of all of this and wmhBonney's post, is that Allen hadn't proven a thing 4 years ago either. He flat sucked his first year. I even remember J Ramsey calling him out on National TV, saying so and that he'd never be good. And Allen was only 'ok' the following year.

Again, the point is that Allen improved upon poor mechanics, happy feet relying on his athleticism and raw talent, entirely because he had a coaching staff that worked with him year over year, believed in him, got him weapons, and...hello. ding ding ding... got the guy a defense that could keep the team in games.

The only thing being put forward is that like Allen, Lock COULD ALSO go from struggling to acceptable, and then from acceptable to whatever the guys ceiling will be with a solid cast around him and good leadership. Nobody is saying he will be Allen. Only saying that like Allen, he isn't necessarily who he has shown to be to date.

Allen was a rookie, Lock has been in the league for 3 years at this point -- going on 4. He's had a lot of reps in training camp and practice.

It's kind of hard to say that wilting under pressure is a trait for Lock. If you have the fundamentals down, are entrenched in a system and can't get the job done when the heat gets turned up, that's one thing, but Lock doesn't have the basics down to even be able to show what he can do under pressure. Someone who does have that trait right now... Kirk Cousins, maybe Jimmy G. Both are masters of their respective systems, textbook passers, and both tend to not have the magic when its called for.

Lock ... the dude is just too much of a raw player. He's been living off of his talent for his entire football career and doesn't look to have been pushed particularly hard to become anything other than what he was. There's a ton written about how the coaching staff literally didnt coach him. The exception being his rookie year, when he had a chance to sit and watch. But even then, although he performed well, was still making textbook mistakes in the fundamental aspects of the game. So either he's an idiot and can't figure out how to 5 and 7 step drop, plant and throw, or his coaching was crap. And I'm not even saying the guy isn't a moron, just that the evidence overwhelmingly points to a guy who hasn't been properly taught.

As to 3 other players, I gave examples of two above who crapped the bed early and flourished either when they switched teams, or had consistent coaching. And in the case of Allen, I posted a video showing his play his rookie year when he was making a lot of the same mistakes Lock has shown. The difference with Allen, his coaching was solid and he was able to learn the system year over year. If we are going to pretend that doesn't make a difference I can give you examples of countless qbs who have flamed out in part because they were drafted high to crap teams with a rotating door at HC and coordinator and never 'got it' depsite having shown the capacity to play at the NFL level. You know what franchise has had a rotating door of bad coaches and coordinators? DENVER.

I just dont get the 'crap' verdict for a guy who, if there's one thing that's indisputable, has had exceptionally poor coaching. That just can't be argued. And if that's the case, how in the world, in the most difficult position in the game, that relies MOST on good coaching and planning, can one just say that a guys poor play is just on him and not due in part to the fact that he just hasn't been properly taught.

That's not hope, that's just looking at the situation without bias or hurt feelings over #3 being gone and resentment for a FO and coach who let him 'ride'.

Some QB's just don't have it. You can blame coaching until you're blue in the face -- but in the end some guys just aren't coachable and don't have what it takes to succeed.

I'm seeing a lot of mental gymnastics regarding Lock with his poor play and lack of development. The guy has not progressed as a player in the three years he's been in the NFL. Expecting him to all of the sudden turn a corner is highly unrealistic. Allen was also a rookie that was coming into the NFL, Lock has been in the NFL for 3 years, going on 4 and he still looks very much so like the guy that was in college. Lock and Allen's situation is not very comparable. In addition to this Allen made huge strides each year in his game play, Lock still looks like the same guy. In addition to this, he absolutely crumbles under pressure, he is one of the goofiest looking QB's that I've ever seen when he senses pressure and not in a good way. -- that is something you can't teach.

Sometimes guys just don't have it. Under that same HC, Teddy Bridgewater had one of his best seasons as a pro. There is a lot of blame on the coaching staff, but Lock is also culpable for his lack of development. He's bad at executing even the most basic things in QBing.

Saying it right here, Lock is going to disappoint you, Lock is NOT Allen -- You're reaching comparing them.

 

[keasley45]

Allen was a rookie, Lock has been in the league for 3 years at this point -- going on 4. He's had a lot of reps in training camp and practice.

Some QB's just don't have it. You can blame coaching until you're blue in the face -- but in the end some guys just aren't coachable and don't have what it takes to succeed.

I'm seeing a lot of mental gymnastics regarding Lock with his poor play and lack of development. The guy has not progressed as a player in the three years he's been in the NFL. Expecting him to all of the sudden turn a corner is highly unrealistic. Allen was also a rookie that was coming into the NFL, Lock has been in the NFL for 3 years, going on 4 and he still looks very much so like the guy that was in college. Lock and Allen's situation is not very comparable. In addition to this Allen made huge strides each year in his game play, Lock still looks like the same guy. In addition to this, he absolutely crumbles under pressure, he is one of the goofiest looking QB's that I've ever seen when he senses pressure and not in a good way. -- that is something you can't teach.

Sometimes guys just don't have it. Under that same HC, Teddy Bridgewater had one of his best seasons as a pro. There is a lot of blame on the coaching staff, but Lock is also culpable for his lack of development. He's bad at executing even the most basic things in QBing.

Saying it right here, Lock is going to disappoint you, Lock is NOT Allen -- You're reaching comparing them.

I swear, no matter how many times you say the same thing...

Not a single person in this thread said Lock was Allen, or that he will perform at the same level. And not a single one of us knows what the dude has inside of him to become.

The only people in this thread 'reaching' are the ones, who with absolute certainty, and with a blind eye toward the fact that the guy is coming from a coaching staff that was summarily fired for their ineptitude, think the guy is hopeless. Game over.

It's an odd coincidence that almost without exception, those folks who are so absolutely certain Lock is hot garbage are the same people who were the most ardent supporters of #3?

Love blinds. And I don't think anyone in here loves Lock...

Make of that what you want.

Can't wait for the season to start.

 

[fullquartpress]

The guy has not progressed as a player in the three years he's been in the NFL.

Lock 'started' 2021 week 15 with 3:53 of quarter 3, Denver trailed 3 to 9.
Broncos(Patrick) had a TD 2 minutes later.
1 minute later, Burrow had Boyd WIDE open. Bengals led 15 to 10 (2 point fail).
Broncos drove deep until Bengals' #90 ripped the ball from (read option) Lock's hands, ran toward midfield, Lock ripped the ball from #90's hands, Broncos recovered, but #90 had been ruled down by contact near the original line of scrimmage.
Game stopped because #90 left on the cart.
Which of Lock's games(if any) have you seen?

 

[toffee]

Allen was a rookie, Lock has been in the league for 3 years at this point -- going on 4. He's had a lot of reps in training camp and practice.

Some QB's just don't have it. You can blame coaching until you're blue in the face -- but in the end some guys just aren't coachable and don't have what it takes to succeed.

I'm seeing a lot of mental gymnastics regarding Lock with his poor play and lack of development. The guy has not progressed as a player in the three years he's been in the NFL. Expecting him to all of the sudden turn a corner is highly unrealistic. Allen was also a rookie that was coming into the NFL, Lock has been in the NFL for 3 years, going on 4 and he still looks very much so like the guy that was in college. Lock and Allen's situation is not very comparable. In addition to this Allen made huge strides each year in his game play, Lock still looks like the same guy. In addition to this, he absolutely crumbles under pressure, he is one of the goofiest looking QB's that I've ever seen when he senses pressure and not in a good way. -- that is something you can't teach.

Sometimes guys just don't have it. Under that same HC, Teddy Bridgewater had one of his best seasons as a pro. There is a lot of blame on the coaching staff, but Lock is also culpable for his lack of development. He's bad at executing even the most basic things in QBing.

Saying it right here, Lock is going to disappoint you, Lock is NOT Allen -- You're reaching comparing them.

Folks said the same about Alex Smith after his first 5 seasons. That's before Smith met Harbaugh, Harbaugh turned his career around, he became serviceable. Two years later, he met Andy Reid .... Smith became a three time pro bowl QB.

 

[Rosco]

Allen was a rookie, Lock has been in the league for 3 years at this point -- going on 4. He's had a lot of reps in training camp and practice.

Some QB's just don't have it. You can blame coaching until you're blue in the face -- but in the end some guys just aren't coachable and don't have what it takes to succeed.

I'm seeing a lot of mental gymnastics regarding Lock with his poor play and lack of development. The guy has not progressed as a player in the three years he's been in the NFL. Expecting him to all of the sudden turn a corner is highly unrealistic. Allen was also a rookie that was coming into the NFL, Lock has been in the NFL for 3 years, going on 4 and he still looks very much so like the guy that was in college. Lock and Allen's situation is not very comparable. In addition to this Allen made huge strides each year in his game play, Lock still looks like the same guy. In addition to this, he absolutely crumbles under pressure, he is one of the goofiest looking QB's that I've ever seen when he senses pressure and not in a good way. -- that is something you can't teach.

Sometimes guys just don't have it. Under that same HC, Teddy Bridgewater had one of his best seasons as a pro. There is a lot of blame on the coaching staff, but Lock is also culpable for his lack of development. He's bad at executing even the most basic things in QBing.

Saying it right here, Lock is going to disappoint you, Lock is NOT Allen -- You're reaching comparing them.

Locks first 2 years didn’t have much training camp. His rookie year he got injured midway through training camp and there was NO TRAINING CAMP his second year due to Covid.
Also training camp snaps don’t equal starting in actual games.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I swear, no matter how many times you say the same thing...

Not a single person in this thread said Lock was Allen, or that he will perform at the same level. And not a single one of us knows what the dude has inside of him to become.

The only people in this thread 'reaching' are the ones, who with absolute certainty, and with a blind eye toward the fact that the guy is coming from a coaching staff that was summarily fired for their ineptitude, think the guy is hopeless. Game over.

It's an odd coincidence that almost without exception, those folks who are so absolutely certain Lock is hot garbage are the same people who were the most ardent supporters of #3?

Love blinds. And I don't think anyone in here loves Lock...

Make of that what you want.

Can't wait for the season to start.

I was one of Wilson's bigger critics. It's not "blind" certainty. There is an evidence of work behind Lock and it does not look good. QB's in Lock's situation end up not turning over a leaf more often than not. If anything you're the one that is reaching here.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Folks said the same about Alex Smith after his first 5 seasons. That's before Smith met Harbaugh, Harbaugh turned his career around, he became serviceable. Two years later, he met Andy Reid .... Smith became a three time pro bowl QB.

The league that Alex Smith came up in is a lot different than the one we know today. It was a much more hostile place for QB's. You guys are grasping at straws here, all of the examples are outliers. Could it happen? Sure, is it likely to happen? Not really. Lock is going to disappoint a lot of folks here, I really don't understand where this unfounded optimism is coming from.

He's not going to be Allen, he's not going to be Smith, he's going to be a mid tier backup level player.

 

[fullquartpress]

Could it happen? Sure, is it likely to happen? Not really.

Do I like asking questions to myself? Sure.
Do I like answering my own questions? No doubt, because I'm the only one who knows the absolute truth.

 

[pittpnthrs]

And Russ wasn't even playing like Russ last season, what's your point?
Look, NO ONE knows for sure how Drew Lock is going to shake out in Seattle.
To assume that he's an automatic washout is not only being pessimistic, it's also being dismissive of OTHER fan-folks who are taking more of a 'WAIT AND SEE' approach.
It's like there's a tinge of 'Know-it-all' insult in your every post to folks who might have a different & more positive take on the guy.
I AM NOT AN EXPERT, but NEITHER ARE YOU.

Not "Know it all" as much as logical thinking. I base my opinions on what I have seen. I've been pretty much spot on for the last 7 years with this team and i'm more than likely going to be right about Lock too (who probably wont even start as he is that bad). Yeah Lock could turn it around and be decent I suppose, but the percentages arent pointing that way.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Not "Know it all" as much as logical thinking. I base my opinions on what I have seen. I've been pretty much spot on for the last 7 years with this team and i'm more than likely going to be right about Lock too (who probably wont even start as he is that bad). Yeah Lock could turn it around and be decent I suppose, but the percentages arent pointing that way.

See, that is essentially what I'm saying. He could become an Allen/Smith figure, but the chances that happens are extremely, extremely low based on how the NFL has played out. There have been so many reclamation projects exactly like Lock over the years that i've seen fall flat on their face. There have been QB's that beat the odds, and sure, Lock could be one of them -- but the chances of this happening are extremely low.

I could see him becoming a limited QB that isn't great, but is able to forge a career like Fitzpatrick or Bridgewater as a perennial gap QB. That is a more realistic take then these Allen/Smith/Brees comparisons I'm seeing thrown around all too often. People are grasping at straws here.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Anything is possible.

But so far the body of work and the #s seem to point to the need to ratchet expectations WAY down.

I suspect that a reason people continue to want to inflate the possibilities of either Geno or Lock is because they know, winning teams have exceptional QBs. And almost invariably, nonexceptional QBs do not play for consistently winning teams.

So if you want to believe that your team can be a consistent winner, you pretty much have to believe your QB can be exceptional later.

Now the 49ers have demonstrated it is possible to win despite it. And I will just you judge for yourself if you want to consider the Titans a 'winning' team or just what the old Atlanta Hawks used to be, but as an a modern NFL team. (ie regular season only)