A taste of what to expect this season...Lock 2021 highlights

[keasley45]

I don't think anyone on dot net is promising Lock to become an all-pro, most of us are hoping that he surprises us, and be more than what he was in Denver. I would like to think that Lock's performance in Denver was below what Geno has shown, but a rusty Geno did keep games close last year. Anyone above Geno might be delivering a 7 win season for us, which could just be Lock?

Agree

 

[pittpnthrs]

We don't need Lock to be Russ. We just need him to be Ryan Tannehill.

Thats a problem then because he's not even Ryan Tannehill.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

this ^^^
And it's not really close

 

[sutz]

I appreciate y'all trying to save me from the letdown that you are guaranteeing that Lock is.

Meh. I'm still gonna wait and see. I waited on Pete and he worked out OK. I waited on Russ and he worked out OK. At my age, disappointment comes along and goes along. Meanwhile...oh forget it. It's boring to discuss it.

 

[keasley45]

this ^^^
And it's not really close

Ryan Tannehill wasn't close to 'Ryan Tannehill' early in his career either.

This is a stupid, circular argument. We should put it on ice until after he actually suits up and plays and shows something on tape in our offense.

 

[John63]

Okay fact time

Yes Geno played okay during the 3 game stretch against 3 teams with a combined record of 21-30 not much to write home about. he also avg 4 sacks a game which would equate to 68. Now I don't blame him for that has all of PCs Qbs as an HC in his history with high sack numbers or rankings. For Example 2010 the Seattle Qbs were top 5 in sacks, 2011 Seattle Wbs #1, 1994 with Jets ranked 9th, NE 1997 ranked 13th (yeah), 1998 ranked 7th, Ne 1999 1st. So I don't blame Geno on that. That aside him playing well against teams with a combined 41% winning not impressive.

Now as Locke
Career
59% complt
1.25 td/int
79 passer rating
20 ints in 24 games over 3 years

IN the one season where he played over 6 games his stats were well bad

57% complt
16 tds,
15 ints 1.2 per game
75 passer

Not exactly anything to make you feel good. He is a TO machine and that is not good.

SO barring a HUGE change I am not holding out hope. We need to hope we can run the ball even better than when we had Lycnh and our Defense can be LOB X2 or we get another Qb

 

[keasley45]

Okay fact time

Yes Geno played okay during the 3 game stretch against 3 teams with a combined record of 21-30 not much to write home about. he also avg 4 sacks a game which would equate to 68. Now I don't blame him for that has all of PCs Qbs as an HC in his history with high sack numbers or rankings. For Example 2010 the Seattle Qbs were top 5 in sacks, 2011 Seattle Wbs #1, 1994 with Jets ranked 9th, NE 1997 ranked 13th (yeah), 1998 ranked 7th, Ne 1999 1st. So I don't blame Geno on that. That aside him playing well against teams with a combined 41% winning not impressive.

Now as Locke
Career
59% complt
1.25 td/int
79 passer rating
20 ints in 24 games over 3 years

IN the one season where he played over 6 games his stats were well bad

57% complt
16 tds,
15 ints 1.2 per game
75 passer

Not exactly anything to make you feel good. He is a TO machine and that is not good.

SO barring a HUGE change I am not holding out hope. We need to hope we can run the ball even better than when we had Mycnh and our Defense can be LOB X2 or we get another Qb

For Christ's sake. You can quote stats for poor years all you want. The notion that the dude's die is cast after 3 years of playing in subpar conditions for a coaching staff that was fired is laughable.

Here:

52% completion percentage. 10tds, 12 ints a hair over 2000 yards in 11 games played. How's that look? Pretty craptastic.

So, ok. Just 11 games. So what about stats over a full season with a year under your belt?:

58% completion rate. 20 td, 9 ints. A hair over 3000 yards. Great? Nope. Cut the guy or start looking for his replacement maybe.

How about this one - rookie stats:

16 games played , 58% completion, 12 td, 13 ints, ~3200 yards.

The first player, after two years in the same system with consistent coaching, yielded this:

37 tds, 10 ints, 4500 yards, 69% completion

The second player, after just a change in scenery (because he 'sucked') and a shift to a run based offense yielded this:

70% completion percentage, 22tds, 6 ints and 2700 yards passing

So if you wanna be so bold as to say you saw the brilliance that would be Josh Allen and the better than good play that Ryan Tannehill would exhibit in Tennessee after futzing about in Miami for several years, looking barely average, I emphatically call BS. Allen was being talked about as a bust and Tannehill was cast aside.

Both, in different ways, and for different reasons, drastically improved their games. One, because of CONSISTENCY AND THE ADDITION OF WEAPONS. THE OTHER BECAUSE HE WAS NO LONGER ASKED TO BE THE GUY..

Lock is neither, but the circumstances that allowed Tannehill and Allen to flourish are not unlike what he's stepping into..

This is not a prediction that he will be great, just that he isn't necessarily what his stats show.

And if you REALLY feel like the dude is just toast, then beyond the 'his stats suck' argument, maybe make a case for why his flaws can't be corrected. Specific flaws...

Otherwise, this is a dead end thread.

On the ' he isn't a waste of a player 'side, I'd say his lack of anticipation and tendency to throw into coverage, and throw late, is in part attributable to poor footwork and an over reliance on arm talent, both of which are coachable elements of his game. And his mentor is Shane Waldron. So, I see hope.

Disagree? Why? Beyond - he had a chance to show what he could do in Denver, and stank it up.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Not wilting under pressure is a trait. Maybe it can be trained up. But you generally see it even when people are rookies, at least flashes of it. To go this long and still struggle with it - even if your coaching staff was dead, isn't a great sign.

But Keasely, can you share 3 QBs that have started out poorly and then turned into exceptional QBs under a new staff in a new team? (Reasonably recent?)

Nothing wrong with hope, even blind hope if that is all you have, but it feels like this is expecting something that is fairly uncommon.

 

[bmorepunk]

I really wish the Seahawks hadn't traded with the Broncos because I live in the Denver metro.

I got to hear the constant up/down support of Lock from fans and sports radio. Pretty much your standard has a good game here or there, enough to make people believe, then it goes bad. So they keep getting chances and people hope it works out.

Now I get to hear about Russell Wilson all the time. And I get to read the same Drew Lock stuff I heard about for a couple years.

Dude is going to have his shot here and I hope he does well because it's good for the team. But pinning one's hopes on another team's castoff QB who couldn't get it going with so much emphasis seems like you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. It's really unlikely to go well.

Maybe some of the "Geno can play as good as Wilson" people who sprung up last season can make this wilder.

 

[keasley45]

Not wilting under pressure is a trait. Maybe it can be trained up. But you generally see it even when people are rookies, at least flashes of it. To go this long and still struggle with it - even if your coaching staff was dead, isn't a great sign.

But Keasely, can you share 3 QBs that have started out poorly and then turned into exceptional QBs under a new staff in a new team? (Reasonably recent?)

Nothing wrong with hope, even blind hope if that is all you have, but it feels like this is expecting something that is fairly uncommon.

It's kind of hard to say that wilting under pressure is a trait for Lock. If you have the fundamentals down, are entrenched in a system and can't get the job done when the heat gets turned up, that's one thing, but Lock doesn't have the basics down to even be able to show what he can do under pressure. Someone who does have that trait right now... Kirk Cousins, maybe Jimmy G. Both are masters of their respective systems, textbook passers, and both tend to not have the magic when its called for.

Lock ... the dude is just too much of a raw player. He's been living off of his talent for his entire football career and doesn't look to have been pushed particularly hard to become anything other than what he was. There's a ton written about how the coaching staff literally didnt coach him. The exception being his rookie year, when he had a chance to sit and watch. But even then, although he performed well, was still making textbook mistakes in the fundamental aspects of the game. So either he's an idiot and can't figure out how to 5 and 7 step drop, plant and throw, or his coaching was crap. And I'm not even saying the guy isn't a moron, just that the evidence overwhelmingly points to a guy who hasn't been properly taught.

As to 3 other players, I gave examples of two above who crapped the bed early and flourished either when they switched teams, or had consistent coaching. And in the case of Allen, I posted a video showing his play his rookie year when he was making a lot of the same mistakes Lock has shown. The difference with Allen, his coaching was solid and he was able to learn the system year over year. If we are going to pretend that doesn't make a difference I can give you examples of countless qbs who have flamed out in part because they were drafted high to crap teams with a rotating door at HC and coordinator and never 'got it' depsite having shown the capacity to play at the NFL level. You know what franchise has had a rotating door of bad coaches and coordinators? DENVER.

I just dont get the 'crap' verdict for a guy who, if there's one thing that's indisputable, has had exceptionally poor coaching. That just can't be argued. And if that's the case, how in the world, in the most difficult position in the game, that relies MOST on good coaching and planning, can one just say that a guys poor play is just on him and not due in part to the fact that he just hasn't been properly taught.

That's not hope, that's just looking at the situation without bias or hurt feelings over #3 being gone and resentment for a FO and coach who let him 'ride'.

 

[Rosco]

Not wilting under pressure is a trait. Maybe it can be trained up. But you generally see it even when people are rookies, at least flashes of it. To go this long and still struggle with it - even if your coaching staff was dead, isn't a great sign.

But Keasely, can you share 3 QBs that have started out poorly and then turned into exceptional QBs under a new staff in a new team? (Reasonably recent?)

Nothing wrong with hope, even blind hope if that is all you have, but it feels like this is expecting something that is fairly uncommon.

Steve Young, Jim plunkett, Jake Plummer all played better on new teams. Being recent has no relevance.

 

[fullquartpress]

can you share 3 QBs that have started out poorly and then turned into exceptional QBs under a new staff in a new team? (Reasonably recent?)

Drew Brees was a 2001 AJ Smith 2nd rounder, apparently frustrating to Marty, and looked disposable when Rivers was #5 overall just 3 years later, before Brees's famous injury.
But maybe a better example:

"Jerry Glanville did not approve of the drafting of Favre, saying it would take a plane crash for him to put Favre into the game] Favre's first pass in an NFL regular season game resulted in an interception returned for a touchdown in a game against the Washington (native Americans).He only attempted four passes in his one season at Atlanta, was intercepted twice, and completed none of them. Favre took one other snap, which resulted in a sack for an eleven-yard loss."

Alex Smith had a terrifying start in SF, maybe never seemed exceptional to you, but Smith reached playoffs(plural, I think)

 

[keasley45]

Steve Young, Jim plunkett, Jake Plummer all played better on new teams. Being recent has no relevance.

Exactly. 'Recent' has nothing to do with it. It's basic human psychology... sport psychology.

 

[keasley45]

Drew Brees was a 2001 AJ Smith 2nd rounder, apparently frustrating to Marty, and looked disposable when Rivers was #5 overall just 3 years later, before Brees's famous injury.
But maybe a better example:

"Jerry Glanville did not approve of the drafting of Favre, saying it would take a plane crash for him to put Favre into the game] Favre's first pass in an NFL regular season game resulted in an interception returned for a touchdown in a game against the Washington (native Americans).He only attempted four passes in his one season at Atlanta, was intercepted twice, and completed none of them. Favre took one other snap, which resulted in a sack for an eleven-yard loss."

Alex Smith had a terrifying start in SF, maybe never seemed exceptional to you, but Smith reached playoffs(plural, I think)

Alex Smith is a good example. If Lock can get the 'safe / manager ' part of the game down that Alex mastered and mix in his considerable arm talent... I think that woukd be more than enough.

 

[WmHBonney]

If PC and Co. can develop Lock like the Buffalo crew developed Josh Allen, then we will be competitive. That wasn't done in a year though. I live in Bills country. There were many fans labeling Allen as a bust his first couple years. The way the coaching developed the talent and built the team to suit has been outstanding.

 

[keasley45]

If PC and Co. can develop Lock like the Buffalo crew developed Josh Allen, then we will be competitive. That wasn't done in a year though. I live in Bills country. There were many fans labeling Allen as a bust his first couple years. The way the coaching developed the talent and built the team to suit has been outstanding.

Thanks for posting this. Been saying for a while that Lock is yet an unknown. No guarantee he will be great, no gurantee he will fail. But the one thing that's certain is that the dude hasn't been given the attention he needs to turn his raw ability into whatever potential qb he might yet be. Denver's coaching, if it were worth anything, wouldn't have been let go. Whatever Lock is, there's enough evidence in that fact alone to assume he can and will be better than who he's been. How much better? If he can be 80% of Allen, I'd be ecstatic.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Josh Allen is one of the best QB's in the entire league. Lock hasn't proven a thing. Hope he's better than expected, but come on.

 

[keasley45]

The point of all of this and wmhBonney's post, is that Allen hadn't proven a thing 4 years ago either. He flat sucked his first year. I even remember J Ramsey calling him out on National TV, saying so and that he'd never be good. And Allen was only 'ok' the following year.

Again, the point is that Allen improved upon poor mechanics, happy feet relying on his athleticism and raw talent, entirely because he had a coaching staff that worked with him year over year, believed in him, got him weapons, and...hello. ding ding ding... got the guy a defense that could keep the team in games.

The only thing being put forward is that like Allen, Lock COULD ALSO go from struggling to acceptable, and then from acceptable to whatever the guys ceiling will be with a solid cast around him and good leadership. Nobody is saying he will be Allen. Only saying that like Allen, he isn't necessarily who he has shown to be to date.

 

[toffee]

Drew Brees was a 2001 AJ Smith 2nd rounder, apparently frustrating to Marty, and looked disposable when Rivers was #5 overall just 3 years later, before Brees's famous injury.
But maybe a better example:

"Jerry Glanville did not approve of the drafting of Favre, saying it would take a plane crash for him to put Favre into the game] Favre's first pass in an NFL regular season game resulted in an interception returned for a touchdown in a game against the Washington (native Americans).He only attempted four passes in his one season at Atlanta, was intercepted twice, and completed none of them. Favre took one other snap, which resulted in a sack for an eleven-yard loss."

Alex Smith had a terrifying start in SF, maybe never seemed exceptional to you, but Smith reached playoffs(plural, I think)

I like to think Alex Smith would be a VERY GOOD comparison, he was drafted ahead of Rodgers by a defensive minded HC, he had 3 OCs in his first three seasons. He SUCKED, like 1 TD/11 INT kind of suck. His career turned around under Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman, became a star under Andy Reid. Did any fans saw a pro-bowl QB after watch first 5 years of Smith's career?

Toffee the homer is hoping for Lock or Geno to pull an Alex Smith !!!

Year	HC	OC	Attempts	%	Yards	TD	INT	PFF
2005	Mike Nolan	Mike McCarthy	165	50.9	875	1	11
2006	"	Norv Turner	442	58.1	2890	16	16	49.5
2007	"	Jim Hostler	193	48.7	914	2	4	52
2009	Mike Singletary	Jimmy Raye	372	60.5	2350	18	12	71
2010	"	Mike Johnson	342	59.6	2370	14	10	60.9
2011	Jim Harbaugh	Greg Roman	445	61.3	3144	17	5	81.4
2012	"	"	218	70.2	1737	13	5	68
2013	Andy Reid	Doug Pederson	508	60.6	3313	23	7	68.8	pro bowl
2016	"	"	489	67.1	3505	15	8	76	pro bowl
2017	"	Brad Childress	505	67.5	4042	26	5	79.6	pro bowl, NFL passer rating leader

 

[scutterhawk]

Thats a problem then because he's not even Ryan Tannehill.

And Russ wasn't even playing like Russ last season, what's your point?
Look, NO ONE knows for sure how Drew Lock is going to shake out in Seattle.
To assume that he's an automatic washout is not only being pessimistic, it's also being dismissive of OTHER fan-folks who are taking more of a 'WAIT AND SEE' approach.
It's like there's a tinge of 'Know-it-all' insult in your every post to folks who might have a different & more positive take on the guy.
I AM NOT AN EXPERT, but NEITHER ARE YOU.