31-13. It actually wasn't that close.

[Sperrydogg]

KJ said on his podcast last week that Pete doesn't do offensive play calling, so let's not try to pin a specific play in the game on PC. KJ also said that our offense is super simple and that he was calling the plays before the ball was snapped against the Rams.

So the big question for me is: why is our offense so vanilla simple? Is it because Waldron doesn't know his X's and O's? I find that hard to believe based on his experience on McVay's staff. My suspicion is that we have personnel limitations that prevent us from running a more varied attack.

SF's line is a murderer's row. Were we chipping, rolling out, throwing screens, or doing a dozen other things you're supposed to do to slow a pass rush? No. Geno doesn't work well with a dirty pocket and we weren't doing anything scheme-wise to help him out. I want to know why.

The pete thing i think is more his offensive philosophy than actually play calling.
As far as the chip blocking I saw a few attempts at some blocking help. He had two tight ends in the backfield with charbonet, I would say routes to beat the blitz were more of a problem than blocking simply because if you know you can’t block them you gotta go fast or you might as well just go home

 

[Fade]

KJ said on his podcast last week that Pete doesn't do offensive play calling, so let's not try to pin a specific play in the game on PC. KJ also said that our offense is super simple and that he was calling the plays before the ball was snapped against the Rams.

So the big question for me is: why is our offense so vanilla simple? Is it because Waldron doesn't know his X's and O's? I find that hard to believe based on his experience on McVay's staff. My suspicion is that we have personnel limitations that prevent us from running a more varied attack.

SF's line is a murderer's row. Were we chipping, rolling out, throwing screens, or doing a dozen other things you're supposed to do to slow a pass rush? No. Geno doesn't work well with a dirty pocket and we weren't doing anything scheme-wise to help him out. I want to know why.

Pete doesn't do the play calling.

What he does is inject his philosophy into it in an aggressive manner. He is also over the headset hearing every call and will interject if he doesn't like a play call.

What it ends up looking like is the Pete Carroll offense, with just a sprinkle of what the OC actually likes to do.

Bevell, Schotty, Waldron. All

Wilson +Geno, now.

Up the gut runs, deep shots outside the numbers, lack of presnap motion, avoid the middle of the field, ignore the TE. Lack of hot routes on blitzes. It's all there for those who can see.

 

[DonovanJM]

I admittedly don't have the greatest actual X's and O's knowledge but it seems to me that we have had 3 OCs who have all lead to bad offenses. So did Pete hire 3 poor coaches? Did he hire 3 coaches and shackle them somehow? Did they all have bad luck with personnel? All of those things seem to lead to Pete to me

 

[Sperrydogg]

Pete doesn't do the play calling.

What he does is inject his philosophy into it in an aggressive manner. He is also over the headset hearing every call and will interject if he doesn't like a play call.

What it ends up looking like is the Pete Carroll offense, with just a sprinkle of what the OC actually likes to do.

Bevell, Schotty, Waldron. All

Wilson +Geno, now.

Up the gut runs, deep shots outside the numbers, lack of presnap motion, avoid the middle of the field, ignore the TE. Lack of hot routes on blitzes. It's all there for those who can see.

Nailed it

 

[Maelstrom787]

I admittedly don't have the greatest actual X's and O's knowledge but it seems to me that we have had 3 OCs who have all lead to bad offenses. So did Pete hire 3 poor coaches? Did he hire 3 coaches and shackle them somehow? Did they all have bad luck with personnel? All of those things seem to lead to Pete to me

The offenses weren't entirely bad. Our recollection of them is just negative, and that's largely based on us being in a negative headspace right now as a fanbase. 2013 through 2015 were good offenses. Schottenheimer had us as one of the best rushing teams in football for 2/3 years here, #1 in 2018 specifically, with Russ having some of his best years in that stretch.

 

[Sperrydogg]

The offenses weren't entirely bad. Our recollection of them is just negative, and that's largely based on us being in a negative headspace right now as a fanbase. 2013 through 2015 were good offenses. Schottenheimer had us as one of the best rushing teams in football for 2/3 years here, #1 in 2018 specifically, with Russ having some of his best years in that stretch.

And he had Russ cooking with gas until Russ threw one pick 6 and Pete took Russ and shotty out of the kitchen

 

[Maelstrom787]

And he had Russ cooking with gas until Russ threw one pick 6 and Pete took Russ and shotty out of the kitchen

Defenses took them out of the kitchen by parking the safeties 2 deep. They were befuddled from that moment and reverting to balance was paramount.

 

[Sperrydogg]

At least the score was a palindrome…. That’s cool

Taco cat tuna nut

 

[Sperrydogg]

Defenses took them out of the kitchen by parking the safeties 2 deep. They were befuddled from that moment and reverting to balance was paramount.

Yeah I know Russ needed to back away from the stove but did shotty?

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yeah I know Russ needed to back away from the stove but did shotty?

I think so. He's a rushing guy at heart. That's what he's best at, at least.

 

[Sperrydogg]

I think so. He's a rushing guy at heart. That's what he's best at, at least.

Back then I always hoped schotty would be like shanahan for us

 

[RolandDeschain]

Roland, you pride yourself on intellectual honesty, yet somehow you absolutely refuse to consider the obvious signs that what you're saying doesn't track with reality. A commonality between coordinators does not erase several serious differences between the philosophies of each that show on the field.

The commonality is that they weren't good offensive coordinators, outside of Schottenheimer. That's the commonality, and it's fair to blame that on Pete.

The idea, though, that these guys are just random mouthpieces despite:

• Each of them being the primary playcaller
• Each of them preferring their own blocking schemes, which we IMMEDIATELY SWITCHED TO (switched to more power/gap stuff for Schotty, back to zone with Waldron's best friend as the OL coach)
• Each of them having their own unique background that manifested in different run/pass splits, route trees, preferred situational concepts, motion rates, tempo, and screen usage

It doesn't track, man. It doesn't. If you have eyes and refuse to delude yourself, and you presume I don't, then by all means RIP APART those well-established truths in the above bullet points. As you challenged me, go ahead and give it a shot. Otherwise, I'm going to stick to the assertion that the offensive coordinator does have a considerable amount of power over how their units operate, which would be a reasonable assumption to make after 14 years of getting to know this regime.

It DOES track, though. Not in every single possible way obviously, and that wasn't my claim. Here's a bullet point list of commonalities under our last three offensive coordinators:

• Rarely using tight ends for receiving, though we tend to have remarkable success with it when we do.
• A strange avoidance of the short middle of the field. Most people assumed this was because of Wilson's height, yet here we are ~1.5 years into Geno Smith with the same habit.
• Sticking with long-developing routes indefinitely in scenarios where the defense is murdering our pass protection consistently.
• Being in love with play action to the point of blind loyalty.
• Significant percentage of passing plays have no outlet (E.G., RB dump off, or tight end chip blocking and hanging around or running a very short route afterwards, etc.).
• Lack of creative running. Look at all the different ways CMC was used last night by the 49ers. We pretty much run up the gut or just off tackle, and that's it, with rare exceptions.
• Distinct lack of trying to fool defenses. We run what we run, it's predictable (look at what Malcolm Butler said about his interception at the goal line from Super Bowl 49, and he was a damn rookie at the time if I recall correctly), and that makes it easier for defenses to try and stop it when they aren't having to frequently guess what we're going to do. Pete's offensive philosophy essentially relies on consistently excellent execution, and that's just kind of blind to reality in the modern NFL.
• These are just the ones off the top of my head, I'm certain Fade or someone else can point out more. We saw more departures from some of the above than usual with Schotty, and to great success with some of that, but...Pete is a stubborn old man at this point when it comes to our offense.

 

[Ozzy]

It DOES track, though. Not in every single possible way obviously, and that wasn't my claim. Here's a bullet point list of commonalities under our last three offensive coordinators:

• Rarely using tight ends for receiving, though we tend to have remarkable success with it when we do.
• A strange avoidance of the short middle of the field. Most people assumed this was because of Wilson's height, yet here we are ~1.5 years into Geno Smith with the same habit.
• Sticking with long-developing routes indefinitely in scenarios where the defense is murdering our pass protection consistently.
• Being in love with play action to the point of blind loyalty.
• Significant percentage of passing plays have no outlet (E.G., RB dump off, or tight end chip blocking and hanging around or running a very short route afterwards, etc.).
• Lack of creative running. Look at all the different ways CMC was used last night by the 49ers. We pretty much run up the gut or just off tackle, and that's it, with rare exceptions.
• Distinct lack of trying to fool defenses. We run what we run, it's predictable (look at what Malcolm Butler said about his interception at the goal line from Super Bowl 49, and he was a damn rookie at the time if I recall correctly), and that makes it easier for defenses to try and stop it when they aren't having to frequently guess what we're going to do. Pete's offensive philosophy essentially relies on consistently excellent execution, and that's just kind of blind to reality in the modern NFL.
• These are just the ones off the top of my head, I'm certain Fade or someone else can point out more. We saw more departures from some of the above than usual with Schotty, and to great success with some of that, but...Pete is a stubborn old man at this point when it comes to our offense.

Damn this is a solid post.