3-14, predicted by CBS sports.

acctingman

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Home vs Denver - loss
@ 49'ers - loss
Home vs Falcons - win
@ Lions - win
@ Saints - loss
Home vs Cards - loss
@ Chargers - loss
Home vs Giants - win
@ Cards - loss
@ Bucs - loss
Home vs Raiders - loss
@ Rams - loss
Home vs Panthers - ugh...win or loss. I see it either way
Home vs 49'ers - loss
@ Chiefs - loss
Home vs Jets - another either way
Home vs Rams - loss

3-5 wins, so I'll say 4
 

scutterhawk

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I guess I don't understand the pessimism.

How many teams can claim to have a wr duo like DK and Tyler? With young, lightning fast talent coming off the pine, this wr Corp is already being talked about as one of, if nit THE fastest in the league

TE - Fant's talent is obvious and it's nit as if he's an 'if' or maybe kind of player. He's already shown what he's capable of in Denvers disaster of a scheme and Dissly has done nothing but perform everytime he's been given a chance. Add to that the talk about how Parkinson is finally healthy... its a strong group.

RB? You're kidding right? Who could stop our running game to close out the season? 2 teams that couldn't- Detroit or Arizona. And we shoukd have blown Arozona out were it not for Russ's turnovers. And now we have the best RB in the draft?

Defense...

Diggs and Adams - arguably the best tandem in the league.

LB- nuoso, mafe, Brooks and taylor... to say nothing for the job that Baryon did. Hate to say it, but we didn't miss much in terms of speed and performance when Bobby went down. I honestly think this group will be talked about as one of the best in the league at season's end.

CB - raw, but stacked with potential in Woolen, Bryant, Brown and vet savvy with Coleman.

And Blair is back. Neal has always played well situational, and the rotation of Jones and others that had to close out the season played fast and free.

Dline is a question mark, but Woodscoming back and the plug of a man we got in the Wilson trade is a positive step. I expect we'll add more before the season starts.

Oline - also a question mark, but like the dline, I'd consider the trend arrow tilted up rather than down, given the draft.

Add to that, for the first time in a decade, offenses won't know what to expect against our tilt 3-4 hybrid D.

The unknown is obviously at QB.

But do you honestly doubt that if we added Jimmy G to this roster we wouldn't be at least in the playoff conversation? The D will be solid and much improved, the offense - look at our skill positions. The qb play is the question mark. Take that away and this team is built to win in the very near term.

And yeah. I think the roster we have will present matchup issues for the first 5 teams and more.

If Penny and Walker are 70% of what we think they might be, and if the qb can play smart ball... this team has no reason to be concerned about any of the teams I mentioned.
LOL It's a "Worst Case Scenario" prediction that these guys are betting on.
 

hawkfan68

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If Russ is indeed a TOP 5 Quarterback with 9 years leading the Seahawks Offense, NO BACKUP should be beating him out in ANY facet of the game, NONE, especially not by a RUSTY clipboard Jocky Geno Smith, am I right?
Any FACET? According your definition, then Tom Brady must suck because Blaine Gabbert and Kyle Trask can scramble/run better than him. Or When he was with NE, Brian Hoyer and Jacoby Brissett can run better than him. What a crock of BS.

Geno didn't beat him out as proved by RW starting before he was ready to from injury. PC knew that Russell gave the team the best chance to WIN. Not win the TOP battles but actually win games by scoring points.

The Seahawks got good value by trading Wilson. What do you think Geno would have gotten if he was on the trading block? He was a free agent and 31 other teams didn't lift a finger to sign him. So yes Russell should be better than him and he is. At worst, Russell is still a top 15 QB.
 
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toffee

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Geno didn't beat him out as proved by RW starting before he was ready to from injury. PC knew that Russell gave the team the best chance to WIN. Not win the TOP battles but actually win games by scoring points.

The Seahawks got good value by trading Wilson. What do you think Geno would have gotten if he was on the trading block? He was a free agent and 31 other teams didn't lift a finger to sign him. So yes Russell should be better than him and he is. At worst, Russell is still a top 15 QB.
Geno will get ZERO, our HOF Russ spent years building up his media volume, and trade value. It took years and unthinkable hardship such as holding on the ball for that highlight throw. Russ earned it.
 

chrispy

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In general, I think highly drafted QBs have about as much success as QBs that switch teams on their second contract. Either way the bar is pretty low. I think there's about as much probability that we have an average +/- QB on the roster already when compared to getting that same thing in next year's draft with a high pick. Of course there are outliers in both categories ... exceptions both ways. I'm just saying it's basically just as likely to hope we have a QB that can perform above average in Pete's system already as hoping we get a top 5 pick and end up with something better in '03. I just bring this up because hoping for an Andrew Luck scenario but ending up with Jamarcus Russel is just as likely as Lock winning 10 games. Don't put all your eggs in next year's basket because JS probably won't draft your guy anyway. He'll draft the closest thing to Lock. They wanted to initially anyway.

Secondly, Pete has never been a good in-game coach. Saying he's not now doesn't prove any decline. He has, however, been one of the best at preparation and teaching. People can say he's declined in general because of age, but I don't agree. Instead, I think his entire system was compromised when it slowly crept toward satisfying and promoting and protecting one individual player. That undermined the "always compete" mantra. To an extent, they lost their identity. That's just my impression because I think it explains the last 3 years better than other hypotheses. I'm not trying to convince you of it, just my opinion.

With that in mind, I expect the D to be top 10 scoring defense. If they don't have to be on the field 70% of games and if they have young well-taught players that have earned their play- how could they not improve? The D will be expected to win in the 4th Q as opposed to 2 possessions of consecutive 65 yard bombs. I'd anticipate more risky-fast play on D and less tentative/deer-in-the-headlight play. Sure that means problems sometimes, but it works well with the right personnel.

If that has any sniff of reality, the team will play better overall in '22. Younger players will make bigger improvements and vets will return to competing without expecting privileges. We'll see more teaching and less explaining away mistakes or pointing fingers. I expect the overall play to get better with noticeable decline in the long ball game. I think last year's record of 7 wins is within a margin of error but would go with 6 wins as most probable. I think it's more likely they reach >8 wins than they fall to <4.
 

BlueTalon

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Except that PC has proven for 7 years that he is no longer a Super Bowl quality of coach. People can disagree as to WHY that is but he can't even win two games in the same playoff year since the lost Super Bowl. You know there are kids in 2nd grade that were not even alive when we lost that game? But, plenty here want to give PC a lifetime pass for a Super Bowl win 8 years ago.
Using that logic, you could also say that Russel Wilson has proven for 7 years that he is no longer a Super Bowl quality of QB, can't even win two games in the same playoff year since we lost the Super Bowl, etc.

The good news is we unloaded that guy onto the Broncos for a whole pile of rebuilding/reloading material.
 
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Fade

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I currently have them at 5 wins.

LOL @ people using the JAX game to try and show Geno is good.

The Seahawks currently have one of the worst offenses in football due to QB and O-Line.

Defense is a ???? due to an overhaul and having a Rookie DC. You'd think it would be better, but too much new to predict.

This is a rebuilding year.
 

rcaido

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In general, I think highly drafted QBs have about as much success as QBs that switch teams on their second contract. Either way the bar is pretty low. I think there's about as much probability that we have an average +/- QB on the roster already when compared to getting that same thing in next year's draft with a high pick. Of course there are outliers in both categories ... exceptions both ways. I'm just saying it's basically just as likely to hope we have a QB that can perform above average in Pete's system already as hoping we get a top 5 pick and end up with something better in '03. I just bring this up because hoping for an Andrew Luck scenario but ending up with Jamarcus Russel is just as likely as Lock winning 10 games. Don't put all your eggs in next year's basket because JS probably won't draft your guy anyway. He'll draft the closest thing to Lock. They wanted to initially anyway.

Secondly, Pete has never been a good in-game coach. Saying he's not now doesn't prove any decline. He has, however, been one of the best at preparation and teaching. People can say he's declined in general because of age, but I don't agree. Instead, I think his entire system was compromised when it slowly crept toward satisfying and promoting and protecting one individual player. That undermined the "always compete" mantra. To an extent, they lost their identity. That's just my impression because I think it explains the last 3 years better than other hypotheses. I'm not trying to convince you of it, just my opinion.

With that in mind, I expect the D to be top 10 scoring defense. If they don't have to be on the field 70% of games and if they have young well-taught players that have earned their play- how could they not improve? The D will be expected to win in the 4th Q as opposed to 2 possessions of consecutive 65 yard bombs. I'd anticipate more risky-fast play on D and less tentative/deer-in-the-headlight play. Sure that means problems sometimes, but it works well with the right personnel.

If that has any sniff of reality, the team will play better overall in '22. Younger players will make bigger improvements and vets will return to competing without expecting privileges. We'll see more teaching and less explaining away mistakes or pointing fingers. I expect the overall play to get better with noticeable decline in the long ball game. I think last year's record of 7 wins is within a margin of error but would go with 6 wins as most probable. I think it's more likely they reach >8 wins than they fall to <4.

Last 3 years?

Seahawks went 11-5 & 12-4...Then off year Wilson got injured/recover.

Even the year we won the superbowl. 10 games that was decided w/ score or less. Wilson had 4 GWD. The 3 losses we had that year the defense lost it in the 4th quarter when we were leading. Without Wilson we probably dont make the playoffs.

Remember the playoff games 2012 against the Redskins &Falcons, our #1 defense gave them 14 point lead in the first quarter and Wilson lead the charge for the comeback. Then the following game against the falcons we gave a 20point lead only for wilson to come back to take the lead w/ only 34seconds and the #1 defense gave up the loss.

The same for the Superbowl & the Panthers Conference game.

We had the best defense in the NFL and even that defense would not be good enough if you have Geno/Lock starting. How many games can we really win w/ Pete style of play if you dont have a QB to win games for you at the end? Our defense is not even close to what Wilson had.
 

keasley45

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Last 3 years?

Seahawks went 11-5 & 12-4...Then off year Wilson got injured/recover.

Even the year we won the superbowl. 10 games that was decided w/ score or less. Wilson had 4 GWD. The 3 losses we had that year the defense lost it in the 4th quarter when we were leading. Without Wilson we probably dont make the playoffs.

Remember the playoff games 2012 against the Redskins &Falcons, our #1 defense gave them 14 point lead in the first quarter and Wilson lead the charge for the comeback. Then the following game against the falcons we gave a 20point lead only for wilson to come back to take the lead w/ only 34seconds and the #1 defense gave up the loss.

The same for the Superbowl & the Panthers Conference game.

We had the best defense in the NFL and even that defense would not be good enough if you have Geno/Lock starting. How many games can we really win w/ Pete style of play if you dont have a QB to win games for you at the end? Our defense is not even close to what Wilson had.
What was our record before Russ got hurt?

If we are playing the nullify game and taking away geno's win against the Jags, then yank Russs wins against the Falcons and vikings in 2020 at least, and we start the season 4-4 rather than 6-2. And we know the slide he was on prior to Pete fixing things. So if he was 4-4 in 2020 under his own steam and the let Russ cook flag, we were what, 2 and 4 before he got hurt in 2021? So the cooking offense minus games against cellar dwellers over two years, also subtracting his post injury games, and the Cooking offense is stat heavy, but 6-8.

Yeah. Big loss there.
 

rcaido

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What was our record before Russ got hurt?

If we are playing the nullify game and taking away geno's win against the Jags, then yank Russs wins against the Falcons and vikings in 2020 at least, and we start the season 4-4 rather than 6-2. And we know the slide he was on prior to Pete fixing things. So if he was 4-4 in 2020 under his own steam and the let Russ cook flag, we were what, 2 and 4 before he got hurt in 2021? So the cooking offense minus games against cellar dwellers over two years, also subtracting his post injury games, and the Cooking offense is stat heavy, but 6-8.

Yeah. Big loss there.
Your scenario doesn't make sense because Wilson played all 16 games in 2020. We won our division and 12 wins. Vikings were almost a .500 team. Loss 4 games less then 6points. Same for the Falcons who loss 8 games less then TD. The Jaguars, were just absolute trash team. They have only won 4 games in two seasons.

Geno went 1-3 or 1-2 if you dont count the Rams game. The only game he showed any decency was against the worse team in the NFL the Jaguars. His career is 13w -21L. He has thrown more interceptions then TDs. You compare that to Wilson who has the most wins & TD for the first 10 years in the NFL...and you dont think that's a big loss?
 

keasley45

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Your scenario doesn't make sense because Wilson played all 16 games in 2020. We won our division and 12 wins. Vikings were almost a .500 team. Loss 4 games less then 6points. Same for the Falcons who loss 8 games less then TD. The Jaguars, were just absolute trash team. They have only won 4 games in two seasons.

Geno went 1-3 or 1-2 if you dont count the Rams game. The only game he showed any decency was against the worse team in the NFL the Jaguars. His career is 13w -21L. He has thrown more interceptions then TDs. You compare that to Wilson who has the most wins & TD for the first 10 years in the NFL...and you dont think that's a big loss?
It does make sense. Look at their defensive rankings. They were the garbage that falls out of your garbage bag when it tears.

During our 6 and 2 start, we played 2 teams with respetcbale defenses. The Patriots (our D won that game) and the Dolphins. The other defenses were well below average to terrible.

So yeah, if we are going to pull losses for bad teams and downplay how good the qb play was, Russ and our 2020 offense got fat off of some marginal teams with horrid defenses. There are literally multiple articles written about how generational bad the Vikings were that year.

So let's drop Genos game and just 2 we had against creampuff defenses in 2020.

6-2 becomes 4-4. As soon as we hit Arizona and Buffalo and teams figured out our O, the grill was turned off and the cooking was over.

And again, we were bad on offensr before Russ got hurt last year. Big plays on busted coverages, do not a great offense make.So if the 2nd half of 2020 was Pete's offense and the first half of 2020 and 2021 was Russ cooking, backing out twinkie wins and our record reflects closer to what our average drive duration, plays per drive, 3rd down conversion, and average # of plays per drive reflect. We weren't even remotely effective outside of the big play.
 

rcaido

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It does make sense. Look at their defensive rankings. They were the garbage that falls out of your garbage bag when it tears.

During our 6 and 2 start, we played 2 teams with respetcbale defenses. The Patriots (our D won that game) and the Dolphins. The other defenses were well below average to terrible.

So yeah, if we are going to pull losses for bad teams and downplay how good the qb play was, Russ and our 2020 offense got fat off of some marginal teams with horrid defenses. There are literally multiple articles written about how generational bad the Vikings were that year.

So let's drop Genos game and just 2 we had against creampuff defenses in 2020.

6-2 becomes 4-4. As soon as we hit Arizona and Buffalo and teams figured out our O, the grill was turned off and the cooking was over.

And again, we were bad on offensr before Russ got hurt last year. Big plays on busted coverages, do not a great offense make.So if the 2nd half of 2020 was Pete's offense and the first half of 2020 and 2021 was Russ cooking, backing out twinkie wins and our record reflects closer to what our average drive duration, plays per drive, 3rd down conversion, and average # of plays per drive reflect. We weren't even remotely effective outside of the big play.
Seahawks w/ Geno - They average 17points per game, which would be rank 29th.

Seahawks w/Wilson - They average 25points, that's including the zero points against the Packers. They would be rank 13th. If you omit the Packers game, Seahawks would have average 27.2points which would have been 6th best in the NFL. Which is pretty amazing since we rank last in offensive play possessions. For example Cowboys had 200 more plays then the Seahawks, that's like almost 4 games worth of possession for the Seahawks.
 

keasley45

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Seahawks w/ Geno - They average 17points per game, which would be rank 29th.

Seahawks w/Wilson - They average 25points, that's including the zero points against the Packers. They would be rank 13th. If you omit the Packers game, Seahawks would have average 27.2points which would have been 6th best in the NFL. Which is pretty amazing since we rank last in offensive play possessions. For example Cowboys had 200 more plays then the Seahawks, that's like almost 4 games worth of possession for the Seahawks.
Geno had 3 games in the system to even remotely try to establish an apple 2 apple comparison. but ok. 68% completion is a good start.
 

Jerhawk

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again, I've heard that doom and gloom prediction several times over the years. High draft pick in the first round doesn't guarantee a thing at QB.
Just ask the Browns, Eagles and Bears about that.
I agree it's not a guarantee. Unfortunately it's the only route they've left for themselves imo
 

Boiler

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I'm taking the over 5.5 Vegas has. Easy money. This team will win at least 6 games.
You are of course right, but that’s what we fear most. The 1990s were the hardest time to be a Seahawks fan. I’d actually welcome 3-14 over 6-11.
 

Aros

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You are of course right, but that’s what we fear most. The 1990s were the hardest time to be a Seahawks fan. I’d actually welcome 3-14 over 6-11.

I hear you. The 90's were what felt like an eternal exercise in futility and losing seasons (and very forgettable quarterbacks and a horrific owner who tried to turn us into the LA Seahawks). While I always want the Seahawks to win, I understand a really poor season (record-wise) would help us potentially land our next franchise QB so I am torn.
 

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Above is just my opinion. I understand it's not universal. ...but a couple more thoughts from reactions:

1)DQing games where Wilson is injured ignores the fact that any QB is more injury prone as they age. He's more likely to get injured each year and it's more likely to linger and be more serious. Seahawks won 7 games last year. Wilson's injury status/health is likely to cost more victories in the future, not less.

2)I think the last 3 years are relevant to look at the mentality of the team. Remember when you could drop 5, 6, 7 names that would qualify as real team leaders; or even League leaders. Now, it's a complete crap-shoot who might be a Team Captain. "Cream rises to the top" was a phrase that appeared ad nauseam. That all went away. There was a disconnect between what was being preached and what was practiced. I'm not even saying that's a mistake. There are/were reasons. But it doesn't seem controversial to me. It seems pretty evident to anyone that's followed the team consistently. My personal opinion is that there will be significant improvements as Pete does what he does best and has proven to do best.

3)Geno and Lock's records are obviously relevant, but (I think) only to a small extent. Wilson never had competition, never shared snaps he wanted to take, had off-season training with WRs (no other QBs), and had years of it. So... I take that all with a grain of salt. The real comparison, looking forward, is now between Lock, Geno and a yet-to-be-named rookie draft pick. Finding a longterm starting QB in the draft is, at best, a 50/50 gamble. ... and that's in the top of the 1st round. I'm just asserting that there are as many complete busts as high QB draft picks as there are solid QBs that perform better when moved into a different system and different setting. JS has never used a high pick for a QB. I think Rogers was the highest of any organization he's ever been in and that's 24th. What happens if he drafts a pass rusher with a top 10 pick and a QB in the 3rd or 4th?
interesting article:


So I still think 6 or 7 wins. Draft a QB for '23 but it won't be obvious that he's the 2nd coming. ...and the D improves with true competition and teaching.
 

TwistedHusky

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#2 is probably unlikely. You pointed it out already. The Cream isn't rising to the top. There is a reason for that. Expecting Pete to do better because Pete will do what he does best? Unlikely because he doesn't even do well at what he did best before. This explains your absence of 'Cream rising to the top'. Less cream, less opportunity to rise.
 

keasley45

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All this talk about cream rising to the top...

You do realize that the mistake that Pete made, that essentially undermined his entire philosophy (but that now he can get back to) was what Sherm, Baldwin, and others pointed out 8 years ago and what our loss in the Superbowl made crystal clear. That the compete mantra and the idea that the best man woukd be on the field and accountability ruled was mocked by Pete's coddling of Russ. You can't pitch 'compete, scrap and fight',, when the 'coaches son' can do what he wants, and despite what teammates know to be true week in and week out (that some players can do what they want, how they want because they are praised by the coach and beloved by the media), things aren't changed.

Bit how can you change them when on the surface, the guy that needs to pick up his game is MR Franchise. You can't.
Pete and this team have been stuck in this post LOB and Beast Mode malaise for 6 years. Never quite succeeding under the Wilson flag, but nonetheless charging ahead, all the while, subtle cracks forming that culminated in the Sh!t$how that has been the last almost 3 years. Russ was our Qb but he wasn't the leader of the team. He never had the kind of character that guys could rally around. Yes. When he went into Russ mode and completely abandoned the playbook, we could do great things. But tye credit for that, by virtue of the fact that he didn't rely on his teammates actually doig their job to get the W (although they did), wasn't shared. Tyler got his press. Dk got his when he'd see the ball. But it was all too often NOT a result of them executing the way the were supposed to, but rather being where Russ wanted them to be based on his play.

That's not team ball. There's little reward for doing your job correctly. No accomplishment. Just a guy making plays and seeking out the dudes he needs to do that.

And Pete neutering criticism of Russ and declawing his defense during its peak was a massive mistake. It seeded resentment and likely dulled the edge the group played with. Defense requires aggression, anger. Russ was optimistic... and awkward. Pete went with the strange optimism ( separation is in the preparation... ) in shaping the team after 2016.

So nit competing and not playing with an edge has been a result of catering to a player that was untouchable, and in his later years, more consumed with his own identity than the teams - a qb who didn't command the same respect, by virtue of his own persona, and failed to get guys to fall in behind him.

How many other starting qbs have backups that get more love from their teammates than they do? TJack was praised and beloved and in a brief stint at atarting, Geno saw a swell of respect and support.

The fracture of this team is reflected in the broken nature of what our offense was. You'd never sit Russ because he could make things go, put up HOF stats on his own, and still won, but in ways only he could, to the detriment to the 'team' contributing, succeeding, and coming together in support of eachother and belief in the unit. The collateral damage was never seen to be 'damaging' enough that it warranted turning out the lights on the magic that Russ could wield - the spectacular wins, the stat sheet, and the idea that if we could only tweek this or that just a bit, we could get back to the big dance. We were close for a long time, but at the end, overestimated our ability to overcome the fatal flaws in the culture and strategy that Pete allowed to persist and Russ relished in.

The idea of trading Russ was always hard because he was the golden child. League star. Face of the franchise. So the skeletons were pushed to the back of the closet and discontent, quietly pushed aside.

The cream will rise to the top and the leadership is certainly there. Diggs and Adams don't have to worry about taking a back seat to the Wilson Wagon and likely biting their tongues at the obvious flaws they had to watch on the other side of the ball week in and week out. Not saying a word when their QB woukd say to the world in a postbgane presser that the issue with the team wasnt on his sude if the ball... because they were putting up points... do you think Sherm woukd have let that fly? Bennet? Do you think Russ woukd have said it if they were there or if Pete hadn't quietly condoned his behavior?

Brooks and Taylor wont have to stand behind the quiet leadership of Wagner - a guy I absolutely love, but was never the leader during the LOB days and was reluctant in stepping into the position after that group left.

In an odd way, the subtraction of the teams top two stars will have the equivalent effect of lifting the lid off a simmering pot and turning up the heat. The personalities and culture that was result of those two players will yield the fire the team has been missing.

The attitude will be back. The punishing running and fast defense will be there. And the contributions from rookies who run around with their hair on fire will come again. There's room again for more personality than just Wilson. When you understand why it left in the first place, it's not hard to predict.

What's best, and you could see this last year - even if / when either Lock or Geno struggle, I sincerely believe that there will be support for them and a commitment to pick up the slack in a way we haven't seen in a while. Simple 'team' culture support and execution. We haven't had that. Why would we have when the Seahawks were a one man show, and the HC permitted it.
 
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