2017 to be Pete Carroll's Get It Done or Move On Season?

[nash72]

I dont think Pete can get us back to another Superbowl and this is why I think he needs to go. I'm not satisfied with just making the playoffs and getting bounced in the 2nd round. The team has the talent right now to win Superbowls and thats what we should expect. I think Petes philosophy is old and tired and is holding the team back, plus I still feel that the team has never recovered from SB49 and wont while he's still here. I dont expect this team to win games 40-3 like somebody mentioned before, but it would be neat to win more games by a comfortable margin rather than it almost always going down to the wire. Regardless, if I was Paul Allen, I would offer Josh McDaniels the world and hire him in 2018.

Remember when the Patriots went 10 years without winning the Super Bowl so they fired Belicheck . . . . oh wait.

All of that said, Pete is getting up there in years and I suspect he isn't much longer for the coaching world. I'm thinking he coaches the next two seasons and then re-evaluates (he won't go into a season as a lame duck). But when he eventually leaves, it will almost certainly be on his terms.

Belichick is a much better coach than Carroll though and their FO cant be matched. Bill never seems to lose his locker room where it appears Pete has. The Patriots very rarely lose games that they shouldnt either. The same cant be said for Seattle. Speaking of the Patriots, Brady has been in the NFL for 16 years now and he's been in the SB 7 times. Thats crazy. He has practically played in Superbowls almost half of his career.

 

[Hyak]

I think these moves are indicative of a few things that PC and JS observed after a disappointing (for them) season in 2016.

1. The decision to pay their core players in the last few years combined with poor 2013/2014 drafts resulted in a HUGE gap between the starters and backups across the roster. If a core player is playing with significant injury or out, the drop off in play was noticeable. Compare that to the 2013 SB team where the depth was unbelievably strong, especially on defense.

2. The play at RB and on the OL was not anywhere close to good enough. The effects of that affected pass protection, time of possession, offensive production, and the defense. As we know, the more the Seahawks defense is on the field, the more susceptible they are to getting worn down.

3. The play of the Safeties when Kam and Earl were out was deficient. In fact, the performance with/without ET was unbelievably different - they went from a great pass defense to a bad one.

4. The Seahawks are reaching a point where most of their defensive core players are coming up for new 3rd contracts in the next 2 offseasons. Clearly some of these guys won't get them given their age.

Take a look at the moves so far pre-draft.

1. Lacy adds competition to the RB situation where both Rawls and Procise have flashed but struggle to stay healthy.

2. On the OL, they added two young but experienced players in Joeckel and Aboushi. It doesn't write off the 2nd year guys, Glowinski, or Gilliam but it does force every one of them to earn a spot.

3. The LB depth seems to be upgraded, which will help give Wagner and Wright some breathers but should also bump special teams coverage units.

4. McDougald should be a significant upgrade over Terrell to spell Thomas.

5. I fully expect the draft to yield some more defensive players designed to be long term core replacements for the defensive core players coming up for 3rd contracts.

 

[c_hawkbob]

Whatever changes take place at the end of this season will take place under Pete's direction. If he leaves it'll be by his own choice.

The idea that any sweeping changes are in order however is ludicrous. Our team is functioning at an elite level, why in the world would we step off the path we're on now?

 

[semiahmoo]

I dont think Pete can get us back to another Superbowl and this is why I think he needs to go. I'm not satisfied with just making the playoffs and getting bounced in the 2nd round. The team has the talent right now to win Superbowls and thats what we should expect. I think Petes philosophy is old and tired and is holding the team back, plus I still feel that the team has never recovered from SB49 and wont while he's still here. I dont expect this team to win games 40-3 like somebody mentioned before, but it would be neat to win more games by a comfortable margin rather than it almost always going down to the wire. Regardless, if I was Paul Allen, I would offer Josh McDaniels the world and hire him in 2018.

Remember when the Patriots went 10 years without winning the Super Bowl so they fired Belicheck . . . . oh wait.

All of that said, Pete is getting up there in years and I suspect he isn't much longer for the coaching world. I'm thinking he coaches the next two seasons and then re-evaluates (he won't go into a season as a lame duck). But when he eventually leaves, it will almost certainly be on his terms.

Belichick is a much better coach than Carroll though and their FO cant be matched. Bill never seems to lose his locker room where it appears Pete has. The Patriots very rarely lose games that they shouldnt either. The same cant be said for Seattle. Speaking of the Patriots, Brady has been in the NFL for 16 years now and he's been in the SB 7 times. Thats crazy. He has practically played in Superbowls almost half of his career.

Agreed on Belichick's superior coaching. When he's done, he should be ranked with the likes of Lombardi.

As for Brady playing in 7 Super Bowls, that is crazy good. Remarkable organization.

As for your thought that Pete has lost the locker room, I fear you're right, and that would be a primary reason for Pete calling it quits if he has another grinder of a season like the last one. Pete won't be pushed out - he would go on his own.

He gave us some great seasons, but the last couple have definitely exposed some cracks in the team dynamic. A third year like that might be enough for him.

 

[nash72]

The idea that any sweeping changes are in order however is ludicrous. Our team is functioning at an elite level, why in the world would we step off the path we're on now?

Losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs two seasons in a row isnt playing at an elite level. The team is starting to get blown out by better teams now which never used to happen. The light at the end of the tunnel is starting to look dim on this current path. Until Pete realizes he cant rely on the defense to win games like before, its going to get worse.

 

[semiahmoo]

I dont think Pete can get us back to another Superbowl and this is why I think he needs to go. I'm not satisfied with just making the playoffs and getting bounced in the 2nd round. The team has the talent right now to win Superbowls and thats what we should expect. I think Petes philosophy is old and tired and is holding the team back, plus I still feel that the team has never recovered from SB49 and wont while he's still here. I dont expect this team to win games 40-3 like somebody mentioned before, but it would be neat to win more games by a comfortable margin rather than it almost always going down to the wire. Regardless, if I was Paul Allen, I would offer Josh McDaniels the world and hire him in 2018.

Your comments about how Pete's philosophy is "old and tired" sadly might not be far off.

I also agree this odd satisfaction some seem to have to say that only a "real" fan would be happy with a quick run and done into the playoffs and that those who think the team should do better are not "real" fans.

That's one of the big differences between dynasty towns and Seattle. We get so happy not to lose while other fans in other cities demand their team wins. Patriots are a better organization from top to bottom because they demand it be so.

All this talk of RW getting injured so nobody should complain. Bah! Grow up. RW showed up to camp heavier and slower. The O-Line sucked. The play calling is tepid. The running game is more off than on. The defense played old and whiny.

New England started the first four games of the season with a back-up QB. They went 3-1.

New England lost their super star tight end for the last half of the season. They go on to win the Super Bowl.

They adjust. They absorb challenge. They win - and New England fans demand no less.

Seattle has the talent to win as well. Since the "why didn't they run it" Super Bowl loss, they have under-performed. They have bickered openly. They have whined about contracts. They have mocked coaches. Coaches have given them plenty to complain about.

I say the Hawk fans who demand better are the real fans and those that smile and nod and clap themselves on the back for their team making the playoffs are the casual fans.

Pete Carroll has one more season to turn this decline around. If not, the Carroll era is over.

 

[semiahmoo]

I dont think Pete can get us back to another Superbowl and this is why I think he needs to go. I'm not satisfied with just making the playoffs and getting bounced in the 2nd round. The team has the talent right now to win Superbowls and thats what we should expect. I think Petes philosophy is old and tired and is holding the team back, plus I still feel that the team has never recovered from SB49 and wont while he's still here. I dont expect this team to win games 40-3 like somebody mentioned before, but it would be neat to win more games by a comfortable margin rather than it almost always going down to the wire. Regardless, if I was Paul Allen, I would offer Josh McDaniels the world and hire him in 2018.

Remember when the Patriots went 10 years without winning the Super Bowl so they fired Belicheck . . . . oh wait.

All of that said, Pete is getting up there in years and I suspect he isn't much longer for the coaching world. I'm thinking he coaches the next two seasons and then re-evaluates (he won't go into a season as a lame duck). But when he eventually leaves, it will almost certainly be on his terms.

Agreed - though if this season is as challenging as the last, I still say he gives very serious consideration to calling it quits in 2018.

 

[semiahmoo]

The idea that any sweeping changes are in order however is ludicrous. Our team is functioning at an elite level, why in the world would we step off the path we're on now?

Losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs two seasons in a row isnt playing at an elite level. The team is starting to get blown out by better teams now which never used to happen. The light at the end of the tunnel is starting to look dim on this current path. Until Pete realizes he cant rely on the defense to win games like before, its going to get worse.

Again, your spot on.

By the last half of last season, the Hawks were not an elite team playing at an elite level.

They knew that as much as anyone. There were games our D got pushed off the field.

That never used to happen. It's happening now with far too much regularity.

As for the offense, we had a few good games, and a whole lot of nothing.

Elite? Elite is being a legit threat to win it all.

The 2016 Hawks were never that threat. On paper? Yes. Watching them perform on the field?

Hell no.

 

[Hyak]

Carroll's philosophy is not the problem and historically works. In most cases, the teams with the best defenses win the championship. NE led the NFL in Points Allowed even though they are largely thought of as an offensive team because of Brady.

The problems with the 2016 Seahawks were far more related to injuries, a regression in OL play, and a gradual depletion in quality depth since 2013 due to free agency losses and drafts that ranged from bad to meh.

If you look at what the offseason has shown, the Seahawks are going all in on their preferred style of play. They want a physical running game to go with an explosive/uber efficient passing game. On defense, they are shoring up the depth in the back 7 and I fully expect the draft to be defensive centric.

Right now, anything less than a SB is disappointing but the fact is that the Hawks have been a legit contender since 2012. Besides NE, Seattle is the only team since 2012 to have made the playoffs every season in that span and have at least 1 win in each season.

As for NE and fan expectations, they have won 2 SB's in the last 5 years but they also went from 9 seasons without a championship with 2 SB losses in that span. During this time, they were not calling for Belichick's head. That said, they were in the hunt a number of times, missing the playoffs only once in that span.

PC and JS have said they want a team that contends perennially. They have done that. Legacy wise, I want to see this era's team win more championships but it IS hard and you need luck too. Go back to SB XLIX. I absolutely think the Seahawks win that game handily if the LOB and DL wasn't decimated by injuries in the week before and during the game. As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

 

[BlueBlood]

I wonder if this is Bill Bs make or break season?

This thread is lame

 

[Jville]

Out of touch suppositions tend to tell on themselves. It's the genesis of lame threads. The source of so much noise.

 

[Siouxhawk]

The thread is lame, but then you realize it's the same old two melodramatic prophets predicting doom and gloom for the Hawks, Pete's early demise and snugly love for Belichick and the Patriots and it becomes more familiar in a dismissive way. To each their own, but we have a dang good little club here that we should be proud of for past accomplishments and future highlights.

 

[nash72]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

 

[Jville]

Emotional maturity is a wonderful asset with which to work thru life's disappointments. It is also a great facilitator for learning.

 

[Siouxhawk]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

It's not anywhere as dramatic as you make it out to be. In fact, the personnel maneuvers you suggest is a losing mentality advocated by also-rans such as the Niners, Bills and Browns. Thank God our organization has some sensibility and emotional self-security.

 

[nash72]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

It's not anywhere as dramatic as you make it out to be. In fact, the personnel maneuvers you suggest is a losing mentality advocated by also-rans such as the Niners, Bills and Browns. Thank God our organization has some sensibility and emotional self-security.

Not as dramatic? Eveything I said was true. The play is still being talked about and players are still rebelling against it. The organization hasent been right since. Its great that this team will be remembered for the SB they lost more than the one they won.

 

[Siouxhawk]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

It's not anywhere as dramatic as you make it out to be. In fact, the personnel maneuvers you suggest is a losing mentality advocated by also-rans such as the Niners, Bills and Browns. Thank God our organization has some sensibility and emotional self-security.

Not as dramatic? Eveything I said was true. The play is still being talked about and players are still rebelling against it. The organization hasent been right since. Its great that this team will be remembered for the SB they lost more than the one they won.

Everything you wrote there is opinion-based on your part. There is no substance of truth. In fact, to minimize the Super Bowl we won is complete jibberish in my eyes. I'm sure many on here would agree with me.

 

[semiahmoo]

Emotional maturity is a wonderful asset with which to work thru life's disappointments. It is also a great facilitator for learning.

True, and emotional maturity dictates honesty.

The Hawks have under-performed the last two seasons. Last season there were games we got our asses handed to us.

The trend is downward.

Some of us hope to see that trend reversed, but that won't happen if people don't demand it to be so.

I recall some posts early in the season indicating there was trouble with the team. Those people were dismissed as naysayers. As the season progressed and it became more difficult to ignore the team's issues, more were willing to share similar concerns, but still, others denounced those concerns and remarked how we were "going to the playoffs again."

Then some of us indicated that though the Hawks were playoff bound, the team was not a real threat to make it to the SB. And again, others attacked that premise.

The more mature, reasoned, and realistic views won out. The Hawks stumbled and fell far short and proved to be a paper tiger come playoff time.

Real fans don't merely see them through the false prism of the smile and nod casual fan. Since the failed Super Bowl repeat, the Hawks have been on the decline. Last year that decline was as precipitous as it has been with this team in quite some time.

Go Hawks.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I also agree this odd satisfaction some seem to have to say that only a "real" fan would be happy with a quick run and done into the playoffs and that those who think the team should do better are not "real" fans.

There's nobody in this thread, that I can find, who said that. Which means that...

I say the Hawk fans who demand better are the real fans and those that smile and nod and clap themselves on the back for their team making the playoffs are the casual fans.

...YOU are the only one around here who's playing the "real fan" card.

If you can express your opinions without gaslighting those who disagree with you, you'll find a more gracious audience. If you don't, you won't. Welcome to .NET.

 

[WmHBonney]

I don't often agree with Nash but he is 100% spot on here. Our vets have never gotten over that play. They lay it on the line year after year and play after play. They were let down by the coaching at the most crucial moment in the most important game of that season. There are no guarantees that they will ever get another chance. They know this and have not been able to get over it. Someone should have been held accountable and canned. That didn't happen. They know who is responsible and haven't forgotten. Spin it all you want. The results are obvious on the field and in the locker room. I played college ball. As a player, even at the college level, you know when the coaches screw up. Our coach (which one?) screwed up at the worst possible moment. What will be interesting will be when these players retire and are truly free to speak their minds. Then we will find out for sure what happened. Until then, you can say what you wish. The results speak for themselves.