Sam

[ivotuk]

The nuance of the game was a big part of that

Playing it the way they did was smart. Niners couldn't move the ball hardly at all

They didn't need to get fancy just to impress fans on a message board

They definitely kept the offense (mostly) conservative, with lots of big runs. But when Sam was needed to make the difficult throw, he nailed it.

The difference between starters and backups in the NFL is razor thin.

Buck, Aikman, MM, Shannahan, and everyone else recognized that the 49er D was playing their asses off! They had won what? 5 straight? Rarely punted, the line in Vegas was tight, so even they thought it would be a close game.

My favorite thing though is the most important stat in the NFL, or any game due that matter, Points Allowed. Who's #1? We are! Again...

I'm no expert, but after watching the way SF beat up on other teams, I too expected a tight game.

There's a reason Shannahan is favored to win the Coach of the Year.

 

[Jac]

13 points, 20th ranked D, facts

Maybe be get a chance to choke away a Super Bowl like Purdy did. Maybe he won’t choke it away like Purdy did. Anything’s possible.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

B**ch you the one crying. Can't handle someone having a different opinion than yours.

Moving on

 

[hox]

I don't get what is controversial about this. If this team didn't have an elite defense and running game, we wouldn't be where we are. Since defenses changed their approach mid season, Sam has thrown 9 TDs and 9 INTs.

How good do you think he would be on a team with average play at any of those areas?

Elite run game? The run game was pretty bad for most of the season, despite being ranked top 5 in terms of attempts. This #3 scoring offense was carried by Sam and the passing game for much of this season.

Now they are more balanced entering the playoffs, but the run game has not been "elite"



Your point that Sam is being carried by the run game is false. The team is not top 3 in scoring because of the run game.

 

[glenwo2]

and where the TE for a td was completely open in the opening drive.

oh well.

So long as he does well the rest of the game, I'm cool with a few "blue screens of death" here and there with him.

 

[glenwo2]

Yep, with their defense and running back, they could have very well been competing for the #1 seed today with Darnold.

Meh. I think Aaron Jones is overrated.

 

[Natethegreat]

Elite run game? The run game was pretty bad for most of the season, despite being ranked top 5 in terms of attempts. This #3 scoring offense was carried by Sam and the passing game for much of this season.

Now they are more balanced entering the playoffs, but the run game has not been "elite"

View attachment 77169

Your point that Sam is being carried by the run game is false. The team is not top 3 in scoring because of the run game.

This is absolutely correct. There are a few here who give little to no credit to Darnold and our passing game and it's pathetic.
I realize he isn't perfect. He does turn it over too much but he has also made a lot of great plays too.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

The fact that we've also got the league's busiest kicker and the highest number of non-offense touchdowns also has to play a role in this conversation.

Neither Sam nor the run game have "carried" this team. It's been closer to an overall effort, with the defense deserving 51% of the credit IMO.

 

[JPatera76]

B**ch you the one crying. Can't handle someone having a different opinion than yours.

Moving on

Imma suggest you chill tf out before I send you on a time out. For a “Seahawk” you sure are pro 49er. Way to tilt your hand

 

[HawkinNY]

O’Connell made Sam throw 44 times in this spot last year… today Mac / Kubiak very wisely didn’t throw the game on him - we are going to sledgehammer teams with 30-40 runs a game from here out and play crush your face defense. Ask Sam to make 5-8 throws a game on play actions to move the sticks at critical times - and he will continue to thrive in this model.

To be honest I think Sam can do much more. First half of the year he had games he threw a lot. Horton going down really seemed to throw the team off. But also defenses changed. Don’t care how they win. Just win.

 

[Torc]

The interception thing is overstated. He threw 14 picks. Six of those were against the Rams. In 15 games against non-Rams teams, he threw eight interceptions.

He'll be playing the Rams 2-3 times a year for a while, so he clearly needs to fix this. But he's not the interception machine people keep saying he is.

 

[hox]

This is absolutely correct. There are a few here who give little to no credit to Darnold and our passing game and it's pathetic.
I realize he isn't perfect. He does turn it over too much but he has also made a lot of great plays too.

Correct. JSN is not the franchise receiving leader in yards this season if Sam is not making big plays in the passing game. It just doesn't compute.

 

[Chapow]

The interception thing is overstated. He threw 14 picks. Six of those were against the Rams. In 15 games against non-Rams teams, he threw eight interceptions.

He'll be playing the Rams 2-3 times a year for a while, so he clearly needs to fix this. But he's not the interception machine people keep saying he is.

14 picks is a lot. That's 3rd most in the league. But it's not just the picks. It's also the fumbles. Darnold turned the ball over more than any other player in the entire league.

If there is such a thing as a turnover machine, I'm pretty sure it's the guy that leads the league in turnovers.

Sam has done a lot of really good things and has played well overall, but the turnovers are a problem and I'd disagree that it's over stated.

 

[Torc]

If you take out the team that Sam clearly has problems with, his interceptions go to 8. Since that's 15 games (1 every two games) let's extrapolate that to 9 over a season if he's playing someone other than the Rams. That would put him at #16 in the league, smack dab in the middle. Can it improve? Sure. But probably not with a super aggressive passing attack like the one that put JSN at the top of the receiving charts. For comparison, MVP candidate Matt Stafford has eight interceptions this year. Wonderchild Brock Purdy has 10 in nine games played. If you look at the top 10 passers in terms of yardage, they all have 8 or more interceptions. I maintain that if he can solve the Rams problem he's right on track for a decent INT percentage.

He's lost 6 fumbles (out of 11). Yep, that puts him #2 in the league for fumbles. I don't have a pat answer to that, it's definitely a problem. But I'm also not sure it's all on Sam - getting blind sided because your line lets a pass rusher hit you unimpeded is probably a cause for at least some of them. And continuing to hone the running game is also going to reduce pressures and his fumbles.

So I'm going to stay with my opinion that the interceptions are overstated...but that the fumbles need to be addressed.

 

[hox]

14 picks is a lot. That's 3rd most in the league. But it's not just the picks. It's also the fumbles. Darnold turned the ball over more than any other player in the entire league.

Mahomes threw 14 picks in 2023. Josh Allen threw 18 picks in 2023. Stafford threw 17 picks in 2021. Joe Burrow threw 14 picks in 2021. Purdy threw 10 picks in 9 games this season, a higher INT rate than Sam.

The interceptions are overstated when it comes to Sam. But when other "elite" level QBs do it, no one cares.

As for the fumbles, 2 of those were on bad snaps from Olu coming cold off the bench. One was from Lucas getting beat. These were more on them than they are on Sam.

Context matters.

 

[keasley45]

Elite run game? The run game was pretty bad for most of the season, despite being ranked top 5 in terms of attempts. This #3 scoring offense was carried by Sam and the passing game for much of this season.

Now they are more balanced entering the playoffs, but the run game has not been "elite"

View attachment 77169

Your point that Sam is being carried by the run game is false. The team is not top 3 in scoring because of the run game.

Our running game has needed to be what it has been over the last few weeks for us to have won. Thats what i was referring to. 180 yards combined, 160 plus yards combined. If Walker doesnt have the game he had against the Rams, do we win it? I dont think so. If we dont grind out the clock and just punish the Panthers, is that game in jeopardy? If not, its not because our passing game was great. Its because of the defense. We ran for 180 yrds against the 9ers. Its rare to do that and lose.

When you are on the goal line with 1st and goal and miss a wide open TD (actually stare at it and decide NOT to throw...)... and two plays later, you have your TE coming wide open across the field on 4th and goal to go up 7 in a tight game... thats not reliable. We were playing a terrible D and missed easy plays for points twice on the same drive. The passing game isnt something we can lean on reliably when you miss plays that easy.

And before the Darnolites come out in defense of their guy and call me a ho-hummer, malcontent, hater, I am just calling it the way it is. You cannot miss gimme plays like that when the opposition is better. And thats to say nothing for the throw on the slant to Shaheed that was a PI... thankfully. The ball was behind him. Had there been no PI, that might be an INT... similar to the one he threw on the slant in the 2nd Rams game.

The identity of this team has shifted to the run game and defense and it needs to stay there and hope that Sam can work through these mistakes that pop up every game. The concern isnt hype or fabrication. These are plays you simply cannot expect to get away with when the opposing team can also control the clock and score points. And if we dont have the D and run game that has popped up over the last few weeks, we dont have the 1 seed. Simple as that.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Just win the whole f'ing thing. That'll shut em up, Sam.
He played VERY smart football on Saturday, and a select few are still whining about him. Dude can't win.

 

[Jac]

Meh. I think Aaron Jones is overrated.

Jordan Mason. He's a load. I think Darnold wins the NFC North for the Vikings this year.

 

[themunn]

The challenge with building with Darnold will be that he will ALWAYS need an elite defense and running game to succeed. That should sound familiar to everyone who was a fan during the PC years.

Sounds like most QBs not named Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes to me.

Jalen Hurts? Matt Stafford? Nick Foles? Russell Wilson? Joe Flacco? Eli Manning? Even Peyton Manning's 2015 win was carried by the defense. So yes, unless you can find a once in every 25 year generational player at QB, it is very likely you are going to need an elite defense and running game to succeed.

The cap goes up every year and the salaries increase as well. It's not like players aren't getting paid more and teams just have extra cash to throw around.

I don't get what is controversial about this. If this team didn't have an elite defense and running game, we wouldn't be where we are. Since defenses changed their approach mid season, Sam has thrown 9 TDs and 9 INTs.

He has 20TOs. That's league leading, despite having a solid OC, solid line, elite defense, a solid backfield, and the best WR in the game.

How good do you think he would be on a team with average play at any of those areas?

I am thankful we have him right now. But I can't put on rose colored glasses and pretend HE can be the difference make on a team with less talent.

Did defenses change their approach or did we change our approach? In those same games we averaged 140 YPG rushing - 125+ in 7 games and the Colts game the outlier with just 50 rushing yards.

We went from averaging 3.6 YPC in our first 8 games (only the Raiders have been worse this season) to 4.6 YPC in our final 9.

Also in that spell we went 8-1.

So yeah if defenses have adjusted to Darnold it came at a massive cost - turning us into a rushing juggernaut.

 

[Jac]

Our running game has needed to be what it has been over the last few weeks for us to have won. Thats what i was referring to. 180 yards combined, 160 plus yards combined. If Walker doesnt have the game he had against the Rams, do we win it? I dont think so. If we dont grind out the clock and just punish the Panthers, is that game in jeopardy? If not, its not because our passing game was great. Its because of the defense. We ran for 180 yrds against the 9ers. Its rare to do that and lose.

There's no question that the identity of this team has evolved into defense and running game. But I also think that's largely a choice and not something being forced on them (with respect to the running game). Darnold is very capable of airing the ball out when needed (e.g., the finish to the Rams game). We don't win that game if not for him. His overtime throws were exquisite.

It just seems like following the first Rams game, Macdonald probably got with Kubiak/Darnold and said we need to get more conservative on offense and let the defense go to work. This all stems from Darnold being a very good, but not elite, QB (which is fine because the elite QB tier has evaporated in the NFL)...and the defense being elite. So lean on the running game to let the elite part of your team do its thing.