Per SI: Steelers Done with Russell Wilson

[Cyrus12]

If only Wilson had played on a good team he woulda shattered records...he just wanted to cook...

 

[Palmegranite]

If only Wilson had played on a good team he woulda shattered records...he just wanted to cook...

If only? He did shatter records. Plenty of them.
You've just forgotten.

 

[IndyHawk]

If only? He did shatter records. Plenty of them.
You've just forgotten.

He's going to own the NFL record for most sacks taken in a lot less snaps.
I doubt it will ever be broken.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Funny how Saint Russell the Blameless keeps getting awful coaches. What terrible luck! First Pete Carroll, then a guy who was being hailed as a young offensive "genius" like Little Shanny in the Big Hat and McVay until he was forced to try to build an offense around a quarterback who can't read defenses, then Sean Payton, then Mike Tomlin. Crazy how everywhere he goes, Saint Ruseelll the Blameless, despite his obvious perfection and lack of flaws, somehow gets terrible coaches that just ruin everything.



Yeah, it's not like getting rid of Wilson made the Broncos a better team because it is that exactly that happened.
The Broncos' offense went from 26th to 19th in yards and from 19th to 10th in scoring just by replacing Wilson with a rookie QB.

Your view of Wilson flies in the face of the view held by the three NFL teams that know Wilson best, the ones who have actually had him in their facilities, the ones who most deeply understand his true strengths and weaknesses, and he has just worn out his welcome with his third team in just over three years. If he's as good as you think he is, and if him playing like he can't read a defense is just an illusion caused by bad coaching, why don't those NFL teams that have had him want him on their rosters?

Don't paint me with your "Russell lover" brush, there IS a gray area between hating him and loving him, and I'm definitely in that gray area. Care to point out where I said anything at all about Sean Payton's coaching abilities? No, I merely referenced his ego, that's it. Project on someone else.

 

[IndyHawk]

Don't paint me with your "Russell lover" brush, there IS a gray area between hating him and loving him, and I'm definitely in that gray area. Care to point out where I said anything at all about Sean Payton's coaching abilities? No, I merely referenced his ego, that's it. Project on someone else.

Your gray area is much bigger than the rest of us RO.

 

[Palmegranite]

Hmmm..I wonder if there is a Raider's forum where bitter fans write endless pages of how badly Derek Carr's sucking with the Saints, and oh yeah he always sucked, and he has bad dance moves...

 

[Appyhawk]

Russ was too short to play the short game. He couldn't see over or through the defense. That's why he got so good at the long ball. He had to. Pete absolutely did alter his scheme in hopes of optimizing Russ's strength. Because HE HAD TO. Tried rolling him out and that helped but couldn't make up enough ground as Russ often rolled right into the pursuit. Russ was a sandlot player who found success thanks to his running ability. Defense had to account for his ability to run, making for openings downfield. Without that Russ has no game. Scramble drill is an entirely different beast than a quick release short game.
IOW I think Kease pretty much nailed it, but without identifying a prime factor for the problem.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Russ was too short to play the short game. He couldn't see over or through the defense. That's why he got so good at the long ball. He had to. Pete absolutely did alter his scheme in hopes of optimizing Russ's strength. Because HE HAD TO. Tried rolling him out and that helped but couldn't make up enough ground as Russ often rolled right into the pursuit. Russ was a sandlot player who found success thanks to his running ability. Defense had to account for his ability to run, making for openings downfield. Without that Russ has no game. Scramble drill is an entirely different beast than a quick release short game.
IOW I think Kease pretty much nailed it, but without identifying a prime factor for the problem.

I just find it funny that a QB with so many supposed deficiencies is the franchises greatest QB and by a large margain. To hear some talk about him, you would think the guy should have never even made it into the NFL.

 

[toffee]

If only? He did shatter records. Plenty of them.
You've just forgotten.

You obviously haven't forgotten, share them please?

 

[Palmegranite]

You obviously haven't forgotten, share them please?

Don't be lazy. Look them up and educate yourself.

 

[toffee]

Don't be lazy. Look them up and educate yourself.

You made them up

 

[chris98251]

I just find it funny that a QB with so many supposed deficiencies is the franchises greatest QB and by a large margain. To hear some talk about him, you would think the guy should have never even made it into the NFL.

No he has statistics, fine, but Zorn, Krieg, Hass were all better QB's, Wilson was not a leader he was a alienator. I would go as far to say his success was due largely to his team mates bailing him out both on offense and defense, the scramble drill worked because of Baldwin, Lynch's heart and toughness, and a once in a generation defense that would not lay down no matter what the score was.

As we seen when he lost that support here in Seattle he looked abysmal mostly, both in Denver and Pittsburgh as far as being able to accel, sure he kept stat lines looking good but the magic was gone and his deep ball taken away. He never could use the middle consistently.

 

[pittpnthrs]

No he has statistics, fine, but Zorn, Krieg, Hass were all better QB's

And this is when the reading stopped

 

[RolandDeschain]

Your gray area is much bigger than the rest of us RO.

Maybe that's because I understand that the world is almost entirely shades of gray, without much actual black and white. Even Hitler wasn't pure evil; he was instrumental in starting Volkswagen, created the autobahn, created some of the earliest known anti-smoking laws, and significantly improved Germany's anti-animal cruelty laws. Forcing things into black and white, or all good / all bad, situations is how you go down the road of justifying even the worst possible things the human race is capable of.

 

[Rat]

Don't be lazy. Look them up and educate yourself.

Google must need to be educated too. I looked up all these records Russ apparently shattered, and I only see one he even holds: most wins in a QB's first nine seasons. He "shattered" it by five wins over Daryle Lamonica in 19 more games.

 

[RiverDog]

Its not that he isnt unwilling to change his style of play, he CANT change it. For years the dude pined for a Drew Brees styled offense. He lobbied openly for Sean Peyton thinking SPs genius could elevate him in ways PCs couldn't. But the fundamental flaW in Wilson's game has been there from the beginning- he simply cannot process information quickly enough to succeed in a typical NFL scheme that requires the QB to make quick decisions, react according to what he is seeing, and distribute the ball on time within the flow of the play-call. Russell NEVER did that. Not in 2013, not in 2017, not in 2019 or 2020... never. He simply overcame this inability by extending plays with his legs and finding success on a play by virtue of his other talents.

But functioning in a traditional offense, let alone one that is sophisticated (read qb friendly, but reliant on fast decions) was never in the cards for Russ. He (just like 95% of qbs who try to do what the great pocket passers in league history do) cant see the game quickly enough in that first 3 seconds after the snap to operate in a 'standard' NFL offense.

The fact that he succeeded in playing his style of football and that he did so in a system that bent itself sround his shortfalls for so long is utterly amazing and flies in the face of conventional wisdom.

He is 1 of 1 in the history of the league. And that is a mark to be proud of.

AND - he cant read defense.

Boy, to listen to you talk about Russell, it's a wonder he could make a good high school quarterback.

There's not many people who will dispute the fact that Russell's best days are behind him. He hasn't taken the steps necessary to play the position into his 30's like other quarterbacks have. Looking at the league's starting quarterbacks, there might be 10 teams that he could start for if it were a straight-out start for if the criteria is not based on age or contract status.

But he's not dog meat, either. Russell Wilson currently ranks 17th in all-time passing yards, 16th in all time completed passes, and 12th in all time touchdown passes. Although I personally don't think he meets the threshold, in some circles, he's been talked about as potential HOF candidate. You don't put together that kind of career by not being able to read a defense.

 

[keasley45]

I just find it funny that a QB with so many supposed deficiencies is the franchises greatest QB and by a large margain. To hear some talk about him, you would think the guy should have never even made it into the NFL.

And this is the part that never gets through to the Russ fan base. I think Russ was great exactly BEACUSE he Succeeded to the degree he did, despite not being able to see the whole field and read defense well. Its remarkable what he did what he did while he was here.

AND... the fact remains that he was too short to operate the designed offense ffectively and too slow to process coverage.

Both things can be true.

Just as him putting up incredible qb stats, AND not being a great QB by any measure that would require him to play the game as it was called.

Any other qb with his deficiencies would have been smoked out of town ... but he had Pete. AND the marriage between the two of them, though producing countless memorable moments, was never going to be sustainable once the entire breadth of Wilson's tricks were figured out and he lost a step. AND he is the only qb since Fran Tarkenton who could overcome his shortcomings with sheer talent.

The issue as i see it is that the Russ fans want to only see his greatness and attribute his shortcomings (however conclusive they have proven to havr been) to ther facets of the organization / team. The folks i see typically being critical of him ackowldege the good that he did, AND ackowledge that his bad was also a cao on hiw good we could ultimatley be. And THAT, in my opinion is where it rests for me. In that sense, he's Dave Kreig - a great player of the position (not as good as Russ) and better tracitional QB than Russ who was equally as challenged when it came to having a complete enough game to win a championship on the strength of his abilities alone. Russ wasnt winning anything again unless he had a top 10 D and run game. And the problem was, he refused to play compmimentary ball and insisted on pursuing an MVP. And Kreig more than Russ could more obviously lose us games by 3 INT performces and his butteringers. Russ's tendency to cripple the O was far less obvious and not as bad, but his pitfalls hurt us as well. They were just masked and easy to confuse for poor blocking or playcalls that didnt work... because - 'look he is running fir his life back there...'

 

[Rat]

I'm not sure I'd consider Russ a mentor QB who would be good at aiding anyone's development. He's had a lot of backups over the years and Geno was the only one who has done anything since. And we don't know how much of that was Russ when he also spent time behind Ryan Fitzpatrick, Philip Rivers, and Eli Manning.

 

[pittpnthrs]

And this is the part that never gets through to the Russ fan base. I think Russ was great exactly BEACUSE he Succeeded to the degree he did, despite not being able to see the whole field and read defense well. Its remarkable what he did what he did while he was here.

AND... the fact remains that he was too short to operate the designed offense ffectively and too slow to process coverage.

Both things can be true.

Just as him putting up incredible qb stats, AND not being a great QB by any measure that would require him to play the game as it was called.

Any other qb with his deficiencies would have been smoked out of town ... but he had Pete. AND the marriage between the two of them, though producing countless memorable moments, was never going to be sustainable once the entire breadth of Wilson's tricks were figured out and he lost a step. AND he is the only qb since Fran Tarkenton who could overcome his shortcomings with sheer talent.

The issue as i see it is that the Russ fans want to only see his greatness and attribute his shortcomings (however conclusive they have proven to havr been) to ther facets of the organization / team. The folks i see typically being critical of him ackowldege the good that he did, AND ackowledge that his bad was also a cao on hiw good we could ultimatley be. And THAT, in my opinion is where it rests for me. In that sense, he's Dave Kreig - a great player of the position (not as good as Russ) and better tracitional QB than Russ who was equally as challenged when it came to having a complete enough game to win a championship on the strength of his abilities alone. Russ wasnt winning anything again unless he had a top 10 D and run game. And the problem was, he refused to play compmimentary ball and insisted on pursuing an MVP. And Kreig more than Russ could more obviously lose us games by 3 INT performces and his butteringers. Russ's tendency to cripple the O was far less obvious and not as bad, but his pitfalls hurt us as well. They were just masked and easy to confuse for poor blocking or playcalls that didnt work... because - 'look he is running fir his life back there...'

I guess the whole Russ debate falls into the categories of "Did Pete elevate Russ" or "Did Russ elevate Pete". I'm for the latter of course, but to each their own. I think there was a tremendous weight thrown on him since 2015 on and he performed admirably. Inconsistent running games, awful Olines, game plans that were questionable at the least, etc,,,. He was good enough that 10 to 12 wins were practically automatic in his prime. Dave Krieg and Geno Smith couldn't do that.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

No he has statistics, fine, but Zorn, Krieg, Hass were all better QB's, Wilson was not a leader he was a alienator. I would go as far to say his success was due largely to his team mates bailing him out both on offense and defense, the scramble drill worked because of Baldwin, Lynch's heart and toughness, and a once in a generation defense that would not lay down no matter what the score was.

As we seen when he lost that support here in Seattle he looked abysmal mostly, both in Denver and Pittsburgh as far as being able to accel, sure he kept stat lines looking good but the magic was gone and his deep ball taken away. He never could use the middle consistently.

Wow. Well said.

The only change I'd make to that is that early Russ was a leader. It was Mr. Unlimited that turned into the ego-filled nightmare that ended his tenure here.